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Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 2:58:43 PM   
MisterP61


Posts: 1345
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		This is a curiousity question here.... and I am eager to hear what others think along this line.

Is it just Me.... or are people today only more interested in the Kink then the actual lifestyle.  I do not spend an inordinate time on these boards, but have seen enough to lead Me to believe that this is true.  What happened to the days when a submissive was just that and if they ever mouthed off to the wrong person it was a reflection on their Master/Mistress.  I am not talking about stating opinions or giving advice, but the flat out attacks.

Now I do want everyone to keep in mind that I am relatively new to this (2 Years active), but that does not mean I know nothing.  I have read on the subject, been to many "like minded" gatherings, learned from some great Masters and Mistresses and rarely see it in real life, it just seems to be on the internet.  I know there is relative safety in the anonymity online, but I would be horrified if one of mine ever behaved like this.  I would further pursue corrective action immediately upon discovery.

My Wife who many know here and in person are working on a poly family, and though some come and some go, We will always have each other first and foremost.  For those who show respect always, you will know what I am talking about here.  I have never asked any body elses sub to call me anything, or even an unowned one.  I will know right away if they are good prospects (if unowned) by the way they approach Me or My Wife.  Respect is a two way street, and I really do try to show it to all, but at times I find it very difficult and I need to pay close attention to what I say, to temper my words.

I am very much into the tradition of the Leather.  Its meaning, its importance in the community.  I see these new P/people coming on here saying you will do this and you will do that before I will look at you, and to me this seems counter productive.  How many have you alienated with this?  How many prospects have passed you by?  I dont know, but it seems all of that will come with time.... every relationship takes work even the BDSM ones.  How can I demand respect if I Myself show none. 

I do not care if you want to blast me on this.  It is why I chose the general discussion tab out of the rest.  I really just want to hear others thoughts on the subject, and for those who take the time to read and/or post.... I give My sincerest thanks.

MrP

edited to correct spelling.... not the best typer in the world


< Message edited by MisterP61 -- 7/7/2008 3:00:45 PM >

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Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:03:34 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I know there is relative safety in the anonymity online, but I would be horrified if one of mine ever behaved like this.


Dear MisterP.....
but i am not in relationship with a forum.......(am i repeating myself AGAIN).


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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:05:50 PM   
MisterP61


Posts: 1345
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Prinsexx....LOL   thank You

_____________________________

Proudly married to the "Diva of Destruction" LadyPact
Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:06:05 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I do not care if you want to blast me on this

And secondly.....so why should you care how 'we' behave in any other capacity then?

_____________________________

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:08:34 PM   
MisterP61


Posts: 1345
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		psssst   I put that in because I knew it would happen   I just want feedback   again  than You 

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Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:15:36 PM   
KneelingSilently


Posts: 38
Joined: 4/15/2008
Status: offline 		Hm. Well I do believe the 'net makes this life more accessible to kinksters than it was in the past. It's a lot easier to just browse a bunch of online listings here and send some form messages about sucking toes than it was to actually go to gatherings and what not. The media plays a part too, I think. Whenever kinky things are seen on film or TV (like CSIs Lady Heather or tonight's episode of Secret Diary of a Call Girl), they're just that; kinky things. Very little thought is given to the lifestyle, really. We usually just get to see (or hear) men getting beat and things of that nature.

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:18:00 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterP61
How can I demand respect if I Myself show none. 



You can't demand respect and by demanding it you decrease your probability that it will be granted in any case.  Respect is earned and can't be transferred.  For example, you can't tell anyone including someone who is submissive to you "You will respect this person." 

However, I suppose the best thing is there really aren't any "traditions of the Leather."  Even in the mythical days of the Old Guard, there weren't any overall customs or ways to behave.  Everyone is pretty much on his or her own.

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:20:28 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterP61

Is it just Me.... or are people today only more interested in the Kink then the actual lifestyle.  I do not spend an inordinate time on these boards, but have seen enough to lead Me to believe that this is true.  What happened to the days when a submissive was just that and if they ever mouthed off to the wrong person it was a reflection on their Master/Mistress.  I am not talking about stating opinions or giving advice, but the flat out attacks.

It depends what you mean by "the wrong person" and "attacks."  My behavior is most certainly a reflection of my Master's training, which means if I dare to submit to the inappropriateness (as defined by my Master) of some clod, either online or in person, he will be pretty damn pissed off at me.  I am instructed to stand up for myself and our relationship at all times, to any other person - stranger or not.  If someone attacks me, I am to handle it in a way he would find appropriate, and that might sometimes mean going for the jugular.  Dominant, submissive, vanilla, or rocky road - it makes no difference as to anyone's orientation, for the only one I submit to is my Master.  I am not a submissive to the world.  He trained that out of me.

As for kink vs. lifestyle, I live my own lifestyle, which happens to include some kink.  I'm not part of some universal lifestyle group.  I am a slave, I am a developing cyclist, I am an amateur photographer, I am a writer...I spend my time where my interests lie, and do not limit myself to one group of person-type (is person-type a word?).
 

quote:


Now I do want everyone to keep in mind that I am relatively new to this (2 Years active), but that does not mean I know nothing.  I have read on the subject, been to many "like minded" gatherings, learned from some great Masters and Mistresses and rarely see it in real life, it just seems to be on the internet.  I know there is relative safety in the anonymity online, but I would be horrified if one of mine ever behaved like this.  I would further pursue corrective action immediately upon discovery.

That's perfectly your right, to correct behavior in a submissive of yours who has behaved inappropriately according to your rules.  By the same token, other owners might be horrified if their submissives sat back and let someone walk all over them.  Every owner has his/her own unique set of rules, which are appropriate for that particular relationship.  You might be horrified if your submissive behaved in the way I was trained; my Master might be horrified if I behaved in a way you would prefer...get it?  Although "horrified" is a rather strong word - my Master doesn't horrify easily.

quote:


My Wife who many know here and in person are working on a poly family, and though some come and some go, We will always have each other first and foremost.  For those who show respect always, you will know what I am talking about here.  I have never asked any body elses sub to call me anything, or even an unowned one.  I will know right away if they are good prospects (if unowned) by the way they approach Me or My Wife.  Respect is a two way street, and I really do try to show it to all, but at times I find it very difficult and I need to pay close attention to what I say, to temper my words.

What you're basically saying here is you have your own standards of what is acceptable to you.  That's a good thing, as everyone should have standards.  I would be concerned, however, of a dominant who found it very difficult to temper his words. 

quote:


I am very much into the tradition of the Leather.  Its meaning, its importance in the community.  I see these new P/people coming on here saying you will do this and you will do that before I will look at you, and to me this seems counter productive.  How many have you alienated with this?  How many prospects have passed you by?  I dont know, but it seems all of that will come with time.... every relationship takes work even the BDSM ones.  How can I demand respect if I Myself show none. 

It is my understanding that the Leather community is a gay community, although I could be wrong.  Is that the community of which you speak?

Perhaps those who are stating their own standards do so, so that they can alienate those who do not meet said standards.  Maybe those are prospects they do not mind to have passed by, just as those you deem as disrespectful are prospects that you do not mind to have passed by.

Your words seem a little hypocritical here.  You are laying out your standards, having trouble tempering your own words toward those who do not meet them, yet you are questioning submissives who have standards.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how you are coming across to me.

quote:


I do not care if you want to blast me on this.  It is why I chose the general discussion tab out of the rest.  I really just want to hear others thoughts on the subject, and for those who take the time to read and/or post.... I give My sincerest thanks.

Here is where you are giving mixed messages again.  You do not think it appropriate for a submissive to "attack", yet you do not care if one "blasts" you here. 

I guess what I walk away with from your post is that you might have some confusion as to what your expectations are, and that confusion is likely very evident to any submissives you may be talking to. 



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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:20:41 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I'm a vegetarian and I don't buy leather.  I also started having spanking fantasies -- and engaging in self-spanking -- when I was five years old.  Some of the posters I most respect on these boards are Masters or otherwise respected in the leather community, but it's unlikely I'll ever attend a leather event myself.  A friend of mine just found me a link to "vegan-leather" floggers -- a material imported from Italy -- so I expect I'll be able to do 6-point Florentine flogging before the end of the year.  I kinda like the idea of doing Florentine flogging with Italian materials.

I don't know if the word "lifestyle" has a definition that people can agree on, but it's safe to say I'm not a participant in any leather lifestyle. Does that mean you would qualify me as "just" kinky?  If the answer is yes, you might want to think about where that I'm-not-as-good-as-you belief comes from -- unless you really do think I'm not as good as you because we won't meet at the same public events.

I think what you're really talking is vanilla honor and courtesy.  And yes, some people throw Old-Guard-style protocols on top of that, to make their relationship special and deeper (at least in their own eyes), but the notion of respecting others -- and yourself -- is more fundamental than BDSM.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:21:38 PM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

<SNIP>
Is it just Me.... or are people today only more interested in the Kink then the actual lifestyle. I do not spend an inordinate time on these boards, but have seen enough to lead Me to believe that this is true. What happened to the days when a submissive was just that and if they ever mouthed off to the wrong person it was a reflection on their Master/Mistress. I am not talking about stating opinions or giving advice, but the flat out attacks.

No, I don't think it's just you. Unfortunately, I think that a lot of us are seeing this.

quote:

Now I do want everyone to keep in mind that I am relatively new to this (2 Years active), but that does not mean I know nothing.

It certainly doesn't. Bad behavior is bad behavior, and has not a whole lot to do with length of time in the 'scene'.

quote:

I have read on the subject, been to many "like minded" gatherings, learned from some great Masters and Mistresses and rarely see it in real life, it just seems to be on the internet.

I love to see people actually take advantage of the resources available to them in their area. I can learn from books and from people I chat with about certain things, but like the song says "ain't nothin like the real thing baby...". To some degree, it takes courage of conviction to seek out others real time to learn from, and I applaud anyone who does.
quote:

I know there is relative safety in the anonymity online, but I would be horrified if one of mine ever behaved like this. I would further pursue corrective action immediately upon discovery

Yeah, unfortunately, there is relative anonymity on the 'interwebs'; but the nice thing is, fantasy only gets you so far. I think, while searching, it's almost a blessing that it's easy to ferret out the people who you'd otherwise not associate with considering their behavior here. To some degree, it's natural selection at it's finest.

quote:

My Wife who many know here and in person are working on a poly family, and though some come and some go, We will always have each other first and foremost. For those who show respect always, you will know what I am talking about here. I have never asked any body elses sub to call me anything, or even an unowned one. I will know right away if they are good prospects (if unowned) by the way they approach Me or My Wife. Respect is a two way street, and I really do try to show it to all, but at times I find it very difficult and I need to pay close attention to what I say, to temper my words.

Unfortunately, some folks still don't get that this is not necessarily a place to get laid more. Those that don't grasp that concept, who have no idea of leather culture or even elementary protocols (and I'm just talking basic decent vanilla social grace) out themselves pretty quickly. I look at it as they do us a favor by making it so we aren't wasting out time on them.

quote:

I am very much into the tradition of the Leather. Its meaning, its importance in the community.[I see these new P/people coming on here saying you will do this and you will do that before I will look at you, and to me this seems counter productive.

Amen!

quote:

How many have you alienated with this? How many prospects have passed you by? I dont know, but it seems all of that will come with time.... every relationship takes work even the BDSM ones. How can I demand respect if I Myself show none.

One of the strangest concepts to me, that I had to work to digest, was that some people are just here for the ride. Being someone who was interested in the D/s - M/s aspects of BDSM, in addition to the SM aspects, it shocked me that some people just wanted to go to parties, play with people, and that was that. They weren't "into" this from a relationship aspect. I didn't get it, and still sorta don't, but to each their own.

quote:

I do not care if you want to blast me on this. It is why I chose the general discussion tab out of the rest. I really just want to hear others thoughts on the subject, and for those who take the time to read and/or post.... I give My sincerest thanks.

For me, it's good to see that folks are seeking out the traditions, going to the living, breathing natural resources available to them, and approaching WIIWD from an understanding not only from the individual perspective, but with community in mind. I wish you and yours well and all the best.

PL


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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:28:12 PM   
MisterP61


Posts: 1345
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Sir... I can not even begin to show how Honored I am that You even chose to reply.  I did not mean to infer that I demand respect, it is just something I observe in others.

Thank You for the correction as well.  I just thought that the passing of Leather from the old to new was tradition.

I do love reading Your books and was so disappointed that I missed an opportunity to meet You, alas My job has Me overseas.  I so would have enjoyed that.  Again Thank You Sir.

MrP


_____________________________

Proudly married to the "Diva of Destruction" LadyPact
Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:37:09 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterP61
I just thought that the passing of Leather from the old to new was tradition.

John Warren may respond with more specifics, but the basic deal is that different clubs/groups have developed different traditions, but each club (and each geographic area) developed differently.  A case in point is the use of collars: some developed use of a "training collar" but most did not.  If you do a search on the boards for the phrase "Old Guard" there's a lot of information about this.  There was no leather Vatican that proclaimed how things were gonna be all over the world.  Instead, people locally used a process called "making it up as we go along."

That said, if you see something you want to pass along as a tradition to those you care about, please do.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:37:53 PM   
MisterP61


Posts: 1345
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Great things being said here.  No I am not the most prolific writer, and some things can be misconstrued as having two meanings or being mixed messages and I do apologize for any in there.

RedMagic1... from what I read on Your posts, I would meet You.  I know I could learn from You.  I am glad that You found the vegan-leather floggers, and have fun with them.

_____________________________

Proudly married to the "Diva of Destruction" LadyPact
Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:42:10 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Lots to say, no time, hopefully when I return this will not have become a free for all.

Look forward to seponding to a good subject.

Steel

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:42:18 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterP61

Great things being said here.  No I am not the most prolific writer, and some things can be misconstrued as having two meanings or being mixed messages and I do apologize for any in there.


You rock for the way you responded to these things being pointed out. 

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Good is the enemy of great.

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:47:05 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterP61
RedMagic1... from what I read on Your posts, I would meet You. 

I've met several CM people, and would be happy to meet you too.  Please feel free to message me when you're back from the DMZ.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:47:22 PM   
MisterP61


Posts: 1345
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		<blushes>  (yes even Domly types blush LOL) thank you ownedgirlie.  I really am trying to learn here.... that is the main reason behind this thread and that is what I meant by not caring if I get blasted.... I crave knowledge.

_____________________________

Proudly married to the "Diva of Destruction" LadyPact
Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:52:47 PM   
mztresn0w


Posts: 174
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline 		I understand what you are saying as I have watched for years on other website the bad behavior and personal attacks on people. I have told both submissives and Dominants that the behavior I was seeing was sad at the best. If you have a problem with someone you take it to a private room or chat and deal with it there. To put it out in a public forum or public place is demeaning to all parties that are involved. My lil one had to learn a painful lesson when she was caught up in the drama and I put my foot down. It was done in a chatroom and she had to apologize to all that were in the chat room for her lack of control. I treat people the way I would like for them to treat me. How My lil one behaves is a direct reflection on me . If I have a problem with someone. I deal directly with them and then if the problem can not be resolved. I just agree to disagree and move on.

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 3:58:36 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It's just you- the concept of having a lifestyle is the new minority idea.  Venues for fucking and whipping have been around a lot longer and are a lot more popular.

If you're into the tradition of leather, then you'll know it started in bars where people went to fuck and beat, or meet with people they could fuck and beat later. 

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RE: Kink V Lifestyle - 7/7/2008 4:18:13 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		~FR~
 
quote:

Is it just Me.... or are people today only more interested in the Kink then the actual lifestyle. 
 
I'm not sure if it just you but i think possibly. For me kink is part of my lifestyle, they are two intertwined things, not seperates.
 
quote:

What happened to the days when a submissive was just that and if they ever mouthed off to the wrong person it was a reflection on their Master/Mistress. 
 
As far as i know nothing. I know Dom's who wuld heartily agree with you and Dom's that wouldn't.
 
quote:

I know there is relative safety in the anonymity online, but I would be horrified if one of mine ever behaved like this.  I would further pursue corrective action immediately upon discovery.

 
I think this is pretty much a key statement. The subs you speak of aren't yours and therefore how they behave really isn't any of your concern. For all you know they may be behaving exactly as their Dom's wish. As we all know and state frequently their is no one true way.
 
quote:

For those who show respect always,

Not everyone deserves respect and instant respect well, respect is earnt. This does not mean i cannot understand what you are talking about.
 
quote:

I see these new P/people coming on here saying you will do this and you will do that before I will look at you, and to me this seems counter productive.  How many have you alienated with this?  How many prospects have passed you

Again no one true way.

quote:

 How can I demand respect if I Myself show none. 

I really don't believe anyone can demand respect. As i said earlier respect is earnt.
 
quote:

for those who take the time to read and/or post.... I give My sincerest thanks.

You are most welcome






_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 20
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