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ORIGINAL: philosophy

...interesting. A careful read of my posting history ought to lead an impartial observer that my ideal society is a mixed economy. One where infrastructure is nationalised, but industry is free to compete in areas where competition is healthy.
This differentiates me from socialists who see such a society as a staging point for a wholly nationalised society, and also differentiates me those who want nothing at all run by a government. If we posit a scale with pure communism at one end and zero government at the other, my position is more or less in the middle.
Is it possible that, because you apparently wish to see virtually nothing run by a government, you see anyone who wants a social structure government-run as a socialist?  This is what i mean when i wrote about how we listen and respond. To use a metapor.....if we are in the West of a country, everyone else is East. If we are in the East of a country everyone else is West. A communist sees all who disagree as capitalists, a capitalist see all who disagree as communists. However, those in the middle of the country can see East and West in their proper contexts.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The people who should be ashamed of themselves because they refuse to talk about this issue?

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TNstepsout
Nicely put and what I was attempting to say, but did not do so as well as you.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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TNstepsout
Nicely put and what I was attempting to say, but did not do so as well as you.

I actually thought you said it quite well.

TNstepsout, I wonder what this group of people would say about a country that purposely keeps a minority in poverty by not allowing them to control what happens on their lands, uses government law enforcement to cover up murder, refuses to allow various minorities within its own border to practice their traditions and cultural identity, even goes so far as to refuse to do within its borders what that government has demanded other countries do?

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Terra Nullius anyone?

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Or are you saying something like...If we didn't have so many o' dem goddamn Pakistanis in this country, we wouldn't have none of this here "honor killings."  Is that it?

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


         Interesting indeed, Phil.  There are a great many legitimate functions of government, and I think you may be drifting into pot-kettle-black territory in the positions you percieve me occupying. 

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 It is a question of personal attitude towards how we balance these things.  You see the free market as something to restrict to the areas you deem "healthy," I see government as something to be allowed to do only those things the market cannot handle.  Even then, I think the government should sub-contract to agencies subject to the forces of competition and outside oversight, whenever possible/practical/ethical.

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It really comes down to one's basic view of government, and how much control it should have over individuals, and how much impact in their day-to-day lives.  We are probably very close in our ideas of what would work best on many subjects.  I'm probably off to the left of you somewhere, on something.

      How we perceive the impact of government in our lives, as a positive influence, or a necessary intrusion, is what divides us. 

        

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ORIGINAL: DomAviator

How many tens of thousands of civilians have been slaughtered by islam???

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 Look at the body count every year in Isreal?

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

You have, in these fora, gloried at killing a child whose only crime has been to have been so hungry they had to break cover to look for food.

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But unbowed Brits were out in force again yesterday – despite warnings that a steamy session could cost them six years in jail.
Tickets for the brunch – which includes lobster, oysters, sushi, prime steak and as much £100-a-bottle Bollinger champagne as you can gulp down – are sold out four weeks in advance.
And nowhere on earth is the clash of cultures between East and West more evident than here

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

Our little subthread began as a defence of what i considered my moderate stance. i am heartily encouraged at how we have managed this discourse, without recourse to belittling each others beliefs. i may have been wrong to think you extreme. ... Sorry.

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ORIGINAL: DomAviator

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ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

i was more talking about your lack of regard for human life, especially innocent human life. according to islamic just war theory, women, children, the elderly, and non-combatants are not to be harmed (john kelsay, islam and war, before anyone accuses me of not citing my sources), so you must understand if i get a little too multicultural here when i say your desire to napalm the children makes me see red. :)

As to the first part - they arent innocent and we dont see them as human either. They are targets not "human life". The Napalm Sticks to Kids cadence, as well as other offensive jody calls have been in use for decades as a tool to densensitize us while building unit cohesion and espirt d corps.

As for the Islamic respect for human life, the elderly, children, non combatants etc BULLSHIT! How many women and children have died at the hands of them? Why were the towers struck? I will conceed that the Pentagon and the USS Cole were legitimate targets but werent the flight attendants and civilians "women" and "non combatants"? How about the elderly wheelchair bound man they tossed over the side of the cruise ship? How many tens of thousands of civilians have been slaughtered by islam???

See THIS is multicultural bullshit in the extreme... The "Islamic Just War" therory? Yeah RIGHT. Thats what the islamics want all right - just war. Nothing but war. Till the last infidel is dead. Well this one wont die.... Maybe they will get me someday but not until I take a few thousand more of them with me.... Practice whatever faith you like but drop the bullshit about what a peaceful people they are and how much respect they have for women and children and noncombatants because Ive seen the truth and dont buy the Al Queda press releases. Talking about the islamic respect for human rights and innocents is as laughable as Bahgdad Bob talking about the impending Iraqi victory as the US Tanks rolled past behind him...

Edited to add - as for "citing sources" I dont care what Al Quada propoganda is cited. Look at the body count every year in Isreal? How about the one with the bulldozer the other day? The one who blew up a school bus last year? The bombing at the resort in Bali? Ill cite a source - how about the list of the dead in the WTC attacks???