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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/15/2008 7:23:25 PM   
MMistress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

LOL Relax ladies the bananna spider is non-venomous. They can only kill you by giving you a heart attack LOL However, we do have black widows, brown widows, and the brown recluse - all of which are venomous. As well as a couple of flavors of scorpions, rattlesnakes, copperheads, water moccasins and coral snakes. We also have gators in the fresh water LOL

Edited to add: However, no visit to Texas is complete without an encounter with a tree roach. Picture a 3" long 1" wide hissing cockroach that lands on your nose to lick the sweat off LOL

Gee wiz DA, when I lived in Fla. we used to saddle those suckers and have races.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/15/2008 8:07:44 PM   
Leatherist


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Weatherstrip the hell out of the place.

Diatomaceous earth around the foundation, keep it dry.

http://www.weekendgardener.net/organic-pesticide/diatomaceous-010801.htm

It is basically like microscopic ground glass. Insects crawling through it get it sucked up into the joint cartilage, and it then proceeds to chew the fuck out of them there-they bleed out and die of dehydration.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/15/2008 8:35:42 PM   
petdave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: writerly808

Even daddy-long-legs creep me out if they get to close.


i was moving the lid for my truck bed this morning, which had been leaning against the side of my house for about two weeks. Hooked the tabs on to the front of the bed, moved to the back of the lid to lower it down...and found the whole back edge of the lid was throbbing with big-ass daddy longlegs spiders... i mean, these guys could just about straddle a half-dollar, and there were dozens of them all tangled up in each other. i'm proud to say i let out a solid, manly profanity rather than shrieking like a little girl

When the title mentioned tan spiders i was thinking of the big'uns that hang out in the crawl space... brownish-tan, fairly thick bodies, but the freaky thing is that their damn eyes are reflective, like cat eyes... so when you're wandering around with a flashlight these itty-bitty points of light keep winking.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/15/2008 8:41:02 PM   
Vendaval


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Hi hunkboy,
 
Do you have any trees or shrubs close to the house?  Is so trim those back and remove any cobwebs.  Sweep, dust, vacuum inside the house several times a week, remove any trash, etc.  When insects or spiders get in this place I spray them with whatever cleaning product is nearby (Simple Green, Orange Glo, window cleaner, etc) and that slows them down long enough to be caught and squished.
 
If I remember right you have both a German Shepherd and a bird as pets?  That means you have to be extra careful about any type of pesticides. 




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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/15/2008 9:00:06 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

LOL Relax ladies the bananna spider is non-venomous. They can only kill you by giving you a heart attack LOL However, we do have black widows, brown widows, and the brown recluse - all of which are venomous. As well as a couple of flavors of scorpions, rattlesnakes, copperheads, water moccasins and coral snakes. We also have gators in the fresh water LOL


Are brown widows easy to find in Texas?  They're the same genus as the black widows (L. geometricus vs. L. hesperus) but prettier.

Cottonmouths are bloody hard to find in Texas.  The vast majority of what people think are cottons in Texas are harmless water snakes.  Buzztails on the other hand are wonderfully, beautifully plentiful, making it a fantastic state to go herping in.  The scorpions and tarantulas are a nice extra bonus that make it less boring to road cruise at night when it's a few miles between rattlesnakes.  As for copperheads, Texas coppers are the most spectacular species of them all, but they are also bloody hard to find.  *pout*   I pounded a LOT of ground trying.  Want.  Did not get.  Must go back and try again someday. 

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 12:30:09 AM   
DomAviator


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Are brown widows easy to find in Texas?  They're the same genus as the black widows (L. geometricus vs. L. hesperus) but prettier.

Cottonmouths are bloody hard to find in Texas.  The vast majority of what people think are cottons in Texas are harmless water snakes.  Buzztails on the other hand are wonderfully, beautifully plentiful, making it a fantastic state to go herping in.  The scorpions and tarantulas are a nice extra bonus that make it less boring to road cruise at night when it's a few miles between rattlesnakes.  As for copperheads, Texas coppers are the most spectacular species of them all, but they are also bloody hard to find.  *pout*   I pounded a LOT of ground trying.  Want.  Did not get.  Must go back and try again someday. 



Ive never seen a brown widow in the wild (ie outside the nature center) but I am told they are fairly plentiful in the bay area.

Cottomouths are also reasonably plentiful in the bay area, usually after a rain storm when they get carried down by the various bayous. There is no shortage of them out in Armand Bayou or Buffalo Bayou. You are correct though in that many people misidentify nonvenomous species like the Blotched Watersnake or the Texas Yellowbelly Watersnake as a "Cotton Mouth" but I am referring to actual Agkistrodon piscivorus not "any snake near the water".  Im not sure if you are referring to the Southern Copperhead or to the Trans Pecos Copperhead but the Southern - ie Agkistrodon contortrix contortrix has been evicted from my yard more than once. Now that Im divorced and no longer have little ones in the house, the next one I encounter is becoming a captive specimen. The Texas Coral Snake (Micrus fulvis) actually is pretty tough to find... Ive only encountered one, that I found under an overturned pedal boat out in my yard. Pretty funny, I looked high and low for one in "good habitat" and then found one in my yard. I damn near got tagged too but fortunately he got my watchband instead. (They are too fucking small to handle with a hook! What can I say, I knew better but I still had an "Irwin moment" and decided it would be a wise idea to pick up an elapid after 4 beers and not being in the right mental place.. Fortunatly he got my watch instead of me or I would not have been a happy camper. As for the various Crotalids, the dunes on Galveston Island are literally INFESTED with them. If you go out past the 11 mile marker on Galveston and into the dunes its hard not to see several. I never messed with the tarantulas or scorpions as Im more a snake person than a fan of invertabrates. I used to keep hot herps, at one point I had a Rhinkhals Cobra, a Black Mamba, and a Gaboon Viper (bitis gabonica not bitis rhinoceros) I have family in South Africa so I had an inside track, I was actualy planning to run a little side biz dealing in hot herps of subsaharan africa, but my ex came with two kids and I didnt think they should cohabitate with Dendroaspis Polylepis, and company LOL

Oh, and while this wont apply to Naja who - if playing with anything of genus Naja and still having the ability and fingers to type - obviously knows what she is doing but a word to the wise... Dont pick up, play with, or molest any of the species mentioned. Even a copperhead bite will make you sick as shit, a rattler will put you in the hospital., and exotics can kill you or cause major and permanent tissue damage. So dont fuck with snakes unless you know what youre doing... Leave it to the professionals or the crazy LOL

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 2:57:30 AM   
BrokenSaint


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PA here as well, and the damn place is full of them. My suggestion is to get a frog. Frogs loooooooooveeee eating spiders. Also they are awesome. Iguana's will also eat spiders and various other insects fairly often for about the first 2 or 3 years of their life. My last one used to just wander around my house sans cage all the time (our cats learned not to mess with them by use of the ever dreaded FWAP betwixt the eyes).

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 10:21:22 AM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator
Cottomouths are also reasonably plentiful in the bay area, usually after a rain storm when they get carried down by the various bayous. There is no shortage of them out in Armand Bayou or Buffalo Bayou. You are correct though in that many people misidentify nonvenomous species like the Blotched Watersnake or the Texas Yellowbelly Watersnake as a "Cotton Mouth" but I am referring to actual Agkistrodon piscivorus not "any snake near the water".


Yep, if you know it's A. piscivorus then you know not to confuse it with a water snake.  I just get awfully tired of people reporting "six foot long giant cottonmouths" that are invariably baby Nerodia. 


quote:

Im not sure if you are referring to the Southern Copperhead or to the Trans Pecos Copperhead but the Southern - ie Agkistrodon contortrix contortrix has been evicted from my yard more than once.


I have contortrix contortrix coming out of my ears, it's pictigaster I want. 


quote:

Now that Im divorced and no longer have little ones in the house, the next one I encounter is becoming a captive specimen. The Texas Coral Snake (Micrus fulvis) actually is pretty tough to find... Ive only encountered one, that I found under an overturned pedal boat out in my yard. Pretty funny, I looked high and low for one in "good habitat" and then found one in my yard. I damn near got tagged too but fortunately he got my watchband instead. (They are too fucking small to handle with a hook! What can I say, I knew better but I still had an "Irwin moment" and decided it would be a wise idea to pick up an elapid after 4 beers and not being in the right mental place.. Fortunatly he got my watch instead of me or I would not have been a happy camper.


We'll definitely talk about some herping.  Micrurus are cryptic and difficult to find, you can't really road cruise for them, and flipping tin doesn't work ideally either.  But difficult to hook?  Really?  Are you still using those old clunky hooks?  If you update to the new, highly agile, lightweight aluminum/titanium hooks in a range of appropriate sizes, you will have a much better time hooking the wee wiggle worms.  As for combining beers and elapids.....yeah.  Darwin Award territory.  Onset of clinical symptoms in Micrurus fulvius envenomation can be delayed up to 19 hours, so you could indeed have been screwed since the docs mostly don't know this.  Hot herpers MUST know their medical envenomation protocol, because the ER docs do not.  There's a good South American "anti-corallico" with cross-reactivity to fulvius, and an even more promising Mexican product, and if you play with them it might be smart to stock it because Wyeth anti-Micrurus is pretty much history and the FDA is currently shitting their pants about what to test and import.


quote:

As for the various Crotalids, the dunes on Galveston Island are literally INFESTED with them. If you go out past the 11 mile marker on Galveston and into the dunes its hard not to see several.


I think I've herped Galveston, though it's been awhile and I'd have to check my GPS maps where I kept locality data.  Texas is wonderful for buzzworms. 


quote:

I have family in South Africa so I had an inside track, I was actualy planning to run a little side biz dealing in hot herps of subsaharan africa, but my ex came with two kids and I didnt think they should cohabitate with Dendroaspis Polylepis, and company LOL


Lucky you.  If you get back into the business and find yourself with some Aspidelaps or Pseudohaje, drop me a note.  D. polylepis is not recommended as a children's companion, no.  Though you might be surprised at how pleasant and human habituated they can become.  If you have a locking secure room or outbuilding and locking cages, hots + kids can work.  Otherwise, not so much.

quote:

Oh, and while this wont apply to Naja who - if playing with anything of genus Naja and still having the ability and fingers to type - obviously knows what she is doing but a word to the wise... Dont pick up, play with, or molest any of the species mentioned. Even a copperhead bite will make you sick as shit, a rattler will put you in the hospital., and exotics can kill you or cause major and permanent tissue damage. So dont fuck with snakes unless you know what youre doing... Leave it to the professionals or the crazy LOL


Hmm, which category do we fall under?  LOL

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 10:45:33 AM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrokenSaint

PA here as well, and the damn place is full of them. My suggestion is to get a frog. Frogs loooooooooveeee eating spiders. Also they are awesome. Iguana's will also eat spiders and various other insects fairly often for about the first 2 or 3 years of their life. My last one used to just wander around my house sans cage all the time (our cats learned not to mess with them by use of the ever dreaded FWAP betwixt the eyes).


Aargh.  Iguanas have incredibly complex and expensive dietary and housing needs.  They require full spectrum light or direct (not window filtered) sunlight, a well balanced and varied diet composed of primarily leafy green vegetables - NO LETTUCE, I mean primarily the expensive kind like dandelion greens and arugula - in the correct proportions with a little fruit and an even smaller amount of protein.  If they don't get their needs met, they die slowly and horribly of metabolic bone disease/secondary nutritonal hyperparathyroidism.  It's a bad death, and the average inexperienced reptile keeper will not recognize the symptoms until they are so far advanced the animal can never have a decent quality of life and will need to be euthanized.  It is debatable how insectivorous iguanas are; even in the best case scenarios it is a very tiny proportion of their required intake. 

Buying an iguana for pest control is arguably the stupidest pet related scenario I've heard in a long time, and I've heard quite a few.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 10:57:32 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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Yup, famous last words; "Watch this!"
They tell us around here not to touch or molest any herp but we still have people bitten from messing around with them or inadvertently stepping near them occaisionally.
Anyone who's not a proffessional and tries to grab a snake drunk or sober is just asking for it! That's just plain stupid.
And, it can cost you on average $1,000 at the emergency room for anti-venom treatment etc.
I don't mess with them because I don't know that much about them comming from New England.
I don't mess with the Allegators in the ponds around here on golf courses either.
Again, leave it to the proffessionals as they have the experience and know what they're doing. If one of those things gets ahold of you you're fucked!
I did see a few "Black Racers" up in New Hampshire though and I almost ran over a baby Timber Rattler with my riding mower when I lived in the foothills of the White Mountains for two years.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 11:03:14 AM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
And, it can cost you on average $1,000 at the emergency room for anti-venom treatment etc.


Try more than $1,000 per vial after pharmacy markup for the new CroFab serum, and a moderate to severe envenomation can take a great many vials due to recurrent coagulopathy.  A bill of 15K to 80K on antivenom alone is not unusual.  And that doesn't include any other costs associated with your treatment.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 11:09:12 AM   
BrokenSaint


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrokenSaint

PA here as well, and the damn place is full of them. My suggestion is to get a frog. Frogs loooooooooveeee eating spiders. Also they are awesome. Iguana's will also eat spiders and various other insects fairly often for about the first 2 or 3 years of their life. My last one used to just wander around my house sans cage all the time (our cats learned not to mess with them by use of the ever dreaded FWAP betwixt the eyes).


Aargh.  Iguanas have incredibly complex and expensive dietary and housing needs.  They require full spectrum light or direct (not window filtered) sunlight, a well balanced and varied diet composed of primarily leafy green vegetables - NO LETTUCE, I mean primarily the expensive kind like dandelion greens and arugula - in the correct proportions with a little fruit and an even smaller amount of protein.  If they don't get their needs met, they die slowly and horribly of metabolic bone disease/secondary nutritonal hyperparathyroidism.  It's a bad death, and the average inexperienced reptile keeper will not recognize the symptoms until they are so far advanced the animal can never have a decent quality of life and will need to be euthanized.  It is debatable how insectivorous iguanas are; even in the best case scenarios it is a very tiny proportion of their required intake. 

Buying an iguana for pest control is arguably the stupidest pet related scenario I've heard in a long time, and I've heard quite a few.


Not specifically for pest control obviously. Just a handy side benefit that I'd seen him chomp more than one spider while he was hanging around my room. As for direct sunlight we had a fairly extensive garden, used to read out there often, so he'd just tag along on my shoulder. His cage if we could call it that was fairly large and constantly accesible should he want to get in (large lamp on an upper platform). As for rudimentary pet care I'm fairly fortunate in having a vet skilled in their care nearby.

It's definitely a tiny portion from at least what I've seen. But he did eat more than a few, on his own of course, as I'd rather stay at least within large bludeoning range of any spiders.


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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 11:15:51 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
And, it can cost you on average $1,000 at the emergency room for anti-venom treatment etc.


Try more than $1,000 per vial after pharmacy markup for the new CroFab serum, and a moderate to severe envenomation can take a great many vials due to recurrent coagulopathy.  A bill of 15K to 80K on antivenom alone is not unusual.  And that doesn't include any other costs associated with your treatment.


OUCH! Holy shit, I didn't know it was that much!
Well that's another good reason to give them plenty of room!

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 11:16:33 AM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrokenSaint
Not specifically for pest control obviously. Just a handy side benefit that I'd seen him chomp more than one spider while he was hanging around my room. As for direct sunlight we had a fairly extensive garden, used to read out there often, so he'd just tag along on my shoulder. His cage if we could call it that was fairly large and constantly accesible should he want to get in (large lamp on an upper platform). As for rudimentary pet care I'm fairly fortunate in having a vet skilled in their care nearby.


Good on ya.  The direct sunlight time is literally saving his life, as commercial heat lamps don't provide the full spectrum light these animals require to metabolize calcium.  Hopefully his diet is in line with the vet's recommendations also, though an annoying number of vets who see reptiles are not actually all that knowledgeable in husbandry and preventative care.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 11:31:41 AM   
BrokenSaint


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrokenSaint
Not specifically for pest control obviously. Just a handy side benefit that I'd seen him chomp more than one spider while he was hanging around my room. As for direct sunlight we had a fairly extensive garden, used to read out there often, so he'd just tag along on my shoulder. His cage if we could call it that was fairly large and constantly accesible should he want to get in (large lamp on an upper platform). As for rudimentary pet care I'm fairly fortunate in having a vet skilled in their care nearby.


Good on ya.  The direct sunlight time is literally saving his life, as commercial heat lamps don't provide the full spectrum light these animals require to metabolize calcium.  Hopefully his diet is in line with the vet's recommendations also, though an annoying number of vets who see reptiles are not actually all that knowledgeable in husbandry and preventative care.



Now are we talking about the red light, or the regular looking one? Was though, he died quite a while ago. Had him for a fairly long time, think it was around 16 1/2 years. But I'm a little fuzzy on when we had first gotten him as I was pretty young at that point. Early on we got him occasional crickets. Fruit was pretty easy during the summer as we had a pretty ridiculous amount of it outside :D, the greens of course stand to reason.

I'd love to have another eventually, but that's waiting until I buy a house I think. Too much moving about still being done.


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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 11:34:06 AM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
OUCH! Holy shit, I didn't know it was that much!
Well that's another good reason to give them plenty of room!


Sure is.  The US is currently in a pretty shameful state when it comes to effective and inexpensive antivenom for our native species, to the point that the FDA is having to acknowledge how fucked we are and is approving imports of antivenom from other countries whose serums have cross-reactivity to the species that live here that our medical and pharmaceutical industry has completely failed to cover.   Africa, Asia and South America are beating the pants off of us in terms of producing good antivenoms inexpensively.  Australia produces awesome antivenoms, but they're even more expensive than the crapwater we currently have here in the US. 

Some of it has to do with FDA hoops.  The goddam *veterinary* AV products are far more effective in this country than the ones currently approved for human use, because of the extra the filtration step for CroFab human approved product and because of the inspection and approval costs that Wyeth/Fort Dodge doesn't want to undertake.  Not that Wyeth produced a great product in its heyday since the serum sickness could be worse than the bite in some cases, and they were still using chemical separation methods from the 1940's, but at least it worked. 

And yeah, the take-home message here is that until the situation improves, which I don't see it doing for some years, either take proactive steps to stock your own Bioclon and South American serums or give native snakes a very wide berth.  Most people are bitten because they tried to kill or catch a snake, not by accident, and of the people who were bitten by accident, most of them could easily have prevented it by using common sense safety rules (eg, don't wade into tall grass with sandals on, don't reach under a log where you can't see).  Our native snakes are really quite easy to walk around, so do that and no one is likely to get hurt. 

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 7/16/2008 11:38:38 AM >

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 11:37:55 AM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrokenSaint
Now are we talking about the red light, or the regular looking one?


Neither.  A full spectrum light is something you buy - not cheaply - to grow plants under.  Indoor pot farmers buy a ton of them, which is why a friend of mine who bred chameleons once had his door busted in by the cops.  They were utterly perplexed at finding rooms full of ficus tree and lizards, and not a pot plant in sight.  In the freezer the cops triumphantly pulled out bricks of compact material wrapped in aluminum foil, and I can only imagine the looks on their faces when they found only frozen mice and rats for his snakes.  The cops had to apologize and buy him a new door.  Sometimes perp profiling just doesn't work. 

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 11:46:16 AM   
BrokenSaint


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrokenSaint
Now are we talking about the red light, or the regular looking one?


Neither.  A full spectrum light is something you buy - not cheaply - to grow plants under.  Indoor pot farmers buy a ton of them, which is why a friend of mine who bred chameleons once had his door busted in by the cops.  They were utterly perplexed at finding rooms full of ficus tree and lizards, and not a pot plant in sight.  In the freezer the cops triumphantly pulled out bricks of compact material wrapped in aluminum foil, and I can only imagine the looks on their faces when they found only frozen mice and rats for his snakes.  The cops had to apologize and buy him a new door.  Sometimes perp profiling just doesn't work. 



It's been quite a while but I'd guess thats what the other one was. I was definitely under the impression the red one was specifically for heat. But I do recall there being some reason we had to get a special bulb for the other. Not sure if it was that, as I was like 8, but I figure it might be. Do they look substantially different? It definitely didn't have the yellowish tinge to the bulb at all that lamp bulbs, etc do.

Also that story is excellent haha.


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In the name of madness
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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 11:59:26 AM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrokenSaint
It's been quite a while but I'd guess thats what the other one was. I was definitely under the impression the red one was specifically for heat. But I do recall there being some reason we had to get a special bulb for the other. Not sure if it was that, as I was like 8, but I figure it might be. Do they look substantially different? It definitely didn't have the yellowish tinge to the bulb at all that lamp bulbs, etc do.


They don't look substantially different, they just cost substantially different.  You'd know if you were the one buying it, but if you weren't, you probably wouldn't.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 12:08:45 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

Yup, famous last words; "Watch this!"
They tell us around here not to touch or molest any herp but we still have people bitten from messing around with them or inadvertently stepping near them occaisionally.
Anyone who's not a proffessional and tries to grab a snake drunk or sober is just asking for it! That's just plain stupid.
And, it can cost you on average $1,000 at the emergency room for anti-venom treatment etc.
I don't mess with them because I don't know that much about them comming from New England.
I don't mess with the Allegators in the ponds around here on golf courses either.
Again, leave it to the proffessionals as they have the experience and know what they're doing. If one of those things gets ahold of you you're fucked!
I did see a few "Black Racers" up in New Hampshire though and I almost ran over a baby Timber Rattler with my riding mower when I lived in the foothills of the White Mountains for two years.


We have almost every poisonous snake you can think of here, and I grew up seeing all of them.  I still don't mess with them.  If I see a snake, it's losing it's head or getting blasted with a shotgun. 

(in reply to popeye1250)
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