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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 12:26:28 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
We have almost every poisonous snake you can think of here, and I grew up seeing all of them.  I still don't mess with them.  If I see a snake, it's losing it's head or getting blasted with a shotgun. 


How about leaving the wildlife alone, especially slow reproducing apex predators?  Have you shot any bald eagles lately?  That has about the same effect on the ecosystem.  In its lifetime, each snake may eat a thousand or more rodents.  Most snakes are harmless to humans, and every snake you kill means not just 1,000 more rodents running around, but exponentially more than that as they breed explosively.  The snakes that are not harmless to humans are still very easy to walk around and give a respectful berth to.  Calling an expert for removal is a lot safer than attacking a snake if it is in your home or yard, and there are also safe, gentle techniques of containment you can operate from a distance that are far less risky than attacking a wild animal and escalating the violence of a situation that could have easily been handled peacefully.

I fucking hate snake killers; they are the lowest and most despicable form of life.  Cowardly, stupid and incredibly short sighted.  More people every year are hospitalized or killed from rodent-borne diseases than are ever bitten by snakes.  If you fuck with Mother Nature, she fucks back. 

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 12:37:16 PM   
Aynne


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Status: offline 		Kittin....lol. Surely at least two?



quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

However, no visit to Texas is complete without an encounter with a tree roach. Picture a 3" long 1" wide hissing cockroach that lands on your nose to lick the sweat off LOL



Surely, you forgot the one inch COCKroach.

LOL.




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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 12:50:31 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

Kittin....lol. Surely at least two?






...thats only the excitable ones.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 1:03:10 PM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		I love having snakes around my house and barn! I get soooooo bummed when I accidentally run over snakes and frogs in the yard with the mower.

They eat bugs and the big ones eat mice.


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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 1:18:05 PM   
pixidustpet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
how about leaving the wildlife alone, especially slow reproducing apex predators?  Have you shot any bald eagles lately?  That has about the same effect on the ecosystem.  In its lifetime, each snake may eat a thousand or more rodents.  Most snakes are harmless to humans, and every snake you kill means not just 1,000 more rodents running around, but exponentially more than that as they breed explosively.  The snakes that are not harmless to humans are still very easy to walk around and give a respectful berth to.  Calling an expert for removal is a lot safer than attacking a snake if it is in your home or yard, and there are also safe, gentle techniques of containment you can operate from a distance that are far less risky than attacking a wild animal and escalating the violence of a situation that could have easily been handled peacefully.

I fucking hate snake killers; they are the lowest and most despicable form of life.  Cowardly, stupid and incredibly short sighted.  More people every year are hospitalized or killed from rodent-borne diseases than are ever bitten by snakes.  If you fuck with Mother Nature, she fucks back. 



i'm a-skeered of snakes too.  too many legs, no legs, they all make me shudder.  therefore, i try not to put myself in areas that i am going to disturb them.  (they belong outside, that's their territory.)

now, if as in the case of my aunt, whose house was flooded and a water moccasin came in?  i'm sorry, self preservation would prevail.  if there wasnt a way to get it out without harming me, it would have to go someways else.  but a snake outside,  minding his (or her) own business?  live and let live.

kitten

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 3:12:45 PM   
DomAviator


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Yup, famous last words; "Watch this!"
They tell us around here not to touch or molest any herp but we still have people bitten from messing around with them or inadvertently stepping near them occaisionally.
Anyone who's not a proffessional and tries to grab a snake drunk or sober is just asking for it! That's just plain stupid.
And, it can cost you on average $1,000 at the emergency room for anti-venom treatment etc.
I don't mess with them because I don't know that much about them comming from New England.
I don't mess with the Allegators in the ponds around here on golf courses either.
Again, leave it to the proffessionals as they have the experience and know what they're doing. If one of those things gets ahold of you you're fucked!
I did see a few "Black Racers" up in New Hampshire though and I almost ran over a baby Timber Rattler with my riding mower when I lived in the foothills of the White Mountains for two years.


And to illustrate just how fucked, for your veiwing pleasure here are the following pictures of the aftermath of a bite by a Northern Pacific Rattlesnake. I warn these are not for the fainthearted or squeamish...  http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/rattlesnakepics.htm 

My attempt at picking up a Texas Coral Snake while drinking was stupid, and it was only luck that kept me from getting a serious, painful and expensive bite. I've handled hot snake for years, both as a hobbiest keeping them as pets and as a volunteer at a zoo and nature center. I knew better, but with the beer induced bravado it was "Red Touches Yellow Will Kill A Fellow! CRIKEEE THATS A CORAL SNAKE LET ME FONDLE!" As I told naja on the other side, one of my neighbors was actually going to let their kid keep the "pretty brown hershey kisses snake" that they found in the yard. I actually had to open its mouth, show them the fangs, and extract venom for them to believe it was a copperhead. Granted a copperhead wont kill an adult, but it will make one wish they were dead for a few days and it could be more serious for a child or pet. Thus people moving into new areas, particularly in the south should beware and not fuck with things... You can find venomous reptiles even in urban areas, and if you wander off galveston beach to go take a piss in the dunes - you can practically count on finding a rattler. Now they are there by the thousands, mixed in with hundreds of thousands of locals and tourists and there hasnt been mass carnage so that tells ya how non agressive they are. However, if you fuck with them they will fuck back and they will win LOL.  

However, on the original topic - this becomes relevant because PaHunk identified his spiders as "bananna spiders" which are not indigenous to PA nor are they little or tan. There are a lot of species of various things that are misidentified. I cant even tell you how many "brown recluse bites" happen in parts of the country where there arent even brown recluse spiders. LOL Likewise every unexplained pimple, sore, etc becomes a "spider bite". Ditto for the water moccasins. I think just about every snake seen within 100 feet of water becomes a "cottom mouth water moccasin" with some people.

For the most part nature wont bother you if you dont bother it. However I still think PA should learm to get along with his spiders. I mean hell someday he might wake up to find "Thats Some Vest" and "Its Radiant" written in web above his closet.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 5:18:50 PM   
writerly808


Posts: 104
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		(FR) I must be masochistic or stupid or both, because I'm actually *looking* at those pictures of the snake-bite aftermath. Ugh. I don't think I'll be eating anything anytime soon...

Also, I've seen both black widows and brown recluses (which are, I think, also known as fiddle-backs). Never tried to get very close to them...far too scared of them deciding I looked like good food. I might've seen brown widows, but I don't know of identifying marks for those, so I'm not sure.

I think owning a snake would be cool... though I wouldn't want to own a poisonous one - and definitely not a Black Mamba! (DA, have you been psych-evaluated recently?!) So not into thrills and chills regarding wildlife.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 5:20:51 PM   
Nikolette


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quote:

Scorpions eat spiders. Get a few dozen scorpions, and set 'em free.


LOL. I loved that.


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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 5:26:14 PM   
Nikolette


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quote:

Have you shot any bald eagles lately? That has about the same effect on the ecosystem. In its lifetime, each snake may eat a thousand or more rodents.


Najakcharmer: I firmly agree with your post.

However, my thoughts are that they aren't refraining from shooting the bald eagles becaues they are concerned about its impact on the environment, but rather because its protected (I thought) by federal law simply because "we" happened to pick it over Turkey (which I- personally liked more).

Side note: Would we be eating bald eagle from over stocked farms at Thanksgiving if things had worked out differently?


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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 6:14:51 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet
now, if as in the case of my aunt, whose house was flooded and a water moccasin came in?  i'm sorry, self preservation would prevail.  if there wasnt a way to get it out without harming me, it would have to go someways else.  but a snake outside,  minding his (or her) own business?  live and let live.


Good on ya for the live and let live attitude, but having a wild venomous snake in your house (in America anyhow) is only life threatening if you step on it before you see it.  If you can see it, it's not dangerous and you can keep a wide berth until it can be safely contained or moved from a distance.  That is much safer than attacking it and making sure it will be fighting back for its life.  Snakes don't fight with the desperation of pain and panic when you offer them a box or a trash can on its side to crawl into, and urge them gently with a long broom to go in the nice hiding place.  It's a hell of a lot safer to do it that way than it is to attack and hurt the snake, guaranteeing that it will be fighting back with everything it has. 

It takes me.....oh, about five or ten minutes to get to an understanding with the average wild cottonmouth to the point I can do pretty much whatever I want with the animal.  They're actually very sweet snakes if you don't hurt or scare them, easier to handle and gentler than their nonvenomous watersnake counterparts.  Which, by the way, is what you will be encountering most of the time and mistaking for a cottonmouth since Nerodia simply out-populate them in pretty drastic numbers and the average non-snake-person cannot tell the difference.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 6:34:26 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator
As I told naja on the other side, one of my neighbors was actually going to let their kid keep the "pretty brown hershey kisses snake" that they found in the yard. I actually had to open its mouth, show them the fangs, and extract venom for them to believe it was a copperhead.


quote:

Now they are there by the thousands, mixed in with hundreds of thousands of locals and tourists and there hasnt been mass carnage so that tells ya how non agressive they are. However, if you fuck with them they will fuck back and they will win LOL. 


This is a good illustration of how basically nice and even tempered most venomous snakes really are, especially here in North America.  There are very few venomous snake species here that don't respond in short order with calmness and indifference to gentle handling, as long as they are not suddenly approached in a way that is frightening or painful to them.  There are actually quite a lot of stories of kids taking pretty pet snakes home and playing with them for quite some time before someone else notices they're of the venomous sort.   The kids don't know any better and they are not afraid, so they pick up the snake gently, and as long as they continue to be gentle it is quite unlikely they will be bitten. 

I don't recommend that anyone who is not a professional (or at least professionally skilled) handle venomous snakes, but the reality is that they're remarkably nice animals if you don't act like a total dick and mindlessly attack them.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 7:04:12 PM   
DomAviator


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quote:

ORIGINAL: writerly808

I think owning a snake would be cool... though I wouldn't want to own a poisonous one - and definitely not a Black Mamba! (DA, have you been psych-evaluated recently?!) So not into thrills and chills regarding wildlife.


Writerly, snakes are fascinating creatures - really amazing animals  and they can make fantastic pets. However, youre right about not wanting to own a venomous one. My mamba was actually quite docile and liked to be handled.... However, I handled him fully aware that if I got tagged I would be dead sometime between 15 minutes to three hours later except for the antivenin vials I kept on hand. (If you keep exotic hot snakes, dont expect your local ER to be stocking South Africa Institute of Medical Research Polyvalent Anitivenin LOL) 

Even with the vials on hand, I was still taking a risk in that snakebites are EXTREMELY uncommon in the USA so ER doctors do not know much about treating them... In a worst case scenario I had visions of arguing with some third year resident that I need the shit I brought and NOT the CroFab rattlesnake antivenin sold through the hospital pharmacy (and probably not stocked)  Then there is the issue of getting a doctor to infuse a patient provided medication that is not FDA approved to treat a condition he knows nothing about... I made it a point to have print outs of the treatment protocols for each species as well as the phone # for VenonOne in Miami handy. Im a paramedic so I also decided that if I ever got tagged I would start th IV myself and go to the hospital with the antivenin already running and the "Treatment of Envenomation In South Africa" book in my hand...

People keeping snakes shouldnt keep hot ones unless they know what they are doiung, and they are doing it for reasons other than "being cool" What REALLY pisses me off though, and Im sure this is a topic that will irk Naja is people who keep what are called "venomoids". These are venomous snakes that have been (theoretically) surgically rendered non-venomous. The problem with this is that the venom is necessary for digestion (hence the reason it causes so much tissue damage) so essentially what you have is some asshole who wants to be cool, but who lacks the balls to handle a hot snake, condeming a magnicent creature to surgical mutilation and death by starvation... On the bright side though, sometimes nature overcomes and the venom glands grow back or the procedure wasnt done right. Then the genious who bought it to be a big shot has a hot herp and doesnt know it until it tags him... Natural selection at work.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 7:41:37 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator
Writerly, snakes are fascinating creatures - really amazing animals  and they can make fantastic pets. However, youre right about not wanting to own a venomous one. My mamba was actually quite docile and liked to be handled.... However, I handled him fully aware that if I got tagged I would be dead sometime between 15 minutes to three hours later except for the antivenin vials I kept on hand. (If you keep exotic hot snakes, dont expect your local ER to be stocking South Africa Institute of Medical Research Polyvalent Anitivenin LOL)


So true.  I don't recommend "freehandling" of any venomous snake, or handling them only for fun rather than for good veterinary, scientific or husbandry reasons. But mambas can definitely become very docile and very easy to "hook and tail" in a good captive environment that does not cause them stress.  It doesn't even take that long to get them that way if they are comfortable in their enclosure.  Most people don't believe me when I explain how pleasant and even tempered venomous snakes are as long as you do not hurt or scare them.  They really are, even the supposedly "aggressive" ones. 


quote:

Even with the vials on hand, I was still taking a risk in that snakebites are EXTREMELY uncommon in the USA so ER doctors do not know much about treating them... In a worst case scenario I had visions of arguing with some third year resident that I need the shit I brought and NOT the CroFab rattlesnake antivenin sold through the hospital pharmacy (and probably not stocked)  Then there is the issue of getting a doctor to infuse a patient provided medication that is not FDA approved to treat a condition he knows nothing about... I made it a point to have print outs of the treatment protocols for each species as well as the phone # for VenonOne in Miami handy. Im a paramedic so I also decided that if I ever got tagged I would start th IV myself and go to the hospital with the antivenin already running and the "Treatment of Envenomation In South Africa" book in my hand...


Nail.  Head.  Hammer.  Hit.  I'll share some additional must-have titles in clinical toxicology and medical envenomation protocol with you on the other side if you like, but you have it largely covered.

quote:

People keeping snakes shouldnt keep hot ones unless they know what they are doiung, and they are doing it for reasons other than "being cool" What REALLY pisses me off though, and Im sure this is a topic that will irk Naja is people who keep what are called "venomoids". These are venomous snakes that have been (theoretically) surgically rendered non-venomous.


Oh, you have no idea how much that irks me, the more so because it is usually done by amateur hacks, not veterinarians.  And theoretically is a good word.  If you milk the typical "venomoid" you'll get at least a few drops, and that's all it takes.  I know of one venomoid cobra that is a producer on a venom line.  He gives about half a shot, but that's still more than enough to kill an adult human.  So it's a bit pointless to torture and mutilate a snake for essentially nothing.  Venom ducts re-fissure regularly, and actual regeneration is documented in several different types of snake tissue.  So....yeah.  Don't do that.

quote:

The problem with this is that the venom is necessary for digestion (hence the reason it causes so much tissue damage) so essentially what you have is some asshole who wants to be cool, but who lacks the balls to handle a hot snake, condeming a magnicent creature to surgical mutilation and death by starvation...


Not true.  Venomous snakes in captivity fed prekilled or frozen/thawed prey do not envenomate their food, and their growth and digestion rates are comparable to live-fed animals that do envenomate their prey.  Venom of certain kinds can be an excellent substitute for a reliable 90F basking zone, which is a significant evolutionary advantage in the wild.  In captivity when the 90F basking zone is turned on by a switch and is always available, it becomes almost irrelevant to digestion even in snakes that do have strong proteolytic enzyme components and antibacterial properties to their venom, indicating that it is useful in digestion during prolonged cold spells where basking in an optimum temperature zone may not be possible after eating.

quote:

On the bright side though, sometimes nature overcomes and the venom glands grow back or the procedure wasnt done right. Then the genious who bought it to be a big shot has a hot herp and doesnt know it until it tags him... Natural selection at work.


How true that is.  If you want to keep nonvenomous snakes, by all means keep them, they breed some amazingly pretty ones.  But don't waste your time mutilating animals because you're a fucking idiot with no handling skills who wants to look like a big shot.  Karma will catch up to you.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 7:55:32 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikolette
However, my thoughts are that they aren't refraining from shooting the bald eagles becaues they are concerned about its impact on the environment, but rather because its protected (I thought) by federal law simply because "we" happened to pick it over Turkey (which I- personally liked more).


No, mascots aren't protected for that reason, but when their actual status warrants it.  Bald eagles did warrant that status for quite some time due to severe problems with reproduction related to DDT runoff, but have made a fairly decent comeback in many areas. 

Many snake species are endangered and protected by law, but those laws are rarely enforced because idiots can cry "self defense".  Which is utter bullshit, since the snake you can see is not the snake you are in any danger whatsoever from.  If you can see it, you can walk away from it, or put an empty trash can over it. 

I occasionally put a Tupperware bowl over them if I need time to set up a good photo.  It keeps them calm and happy to have a nice hiding space while I am fiddling with the camera. I use a little bowl and it sometimes takes a wee bit of maneuvering, but even a non expert should be totally fine with a trash can.  There is no excuse to kill a snake in "self defense" when you can just walk away or upend a wastebasket to capture and move the animal quite safely. 

And I don't know what bald eagle tastes like, but predators don't usually taste very good so I for one am more thankful for holiday turkey.


< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 7/16/2008 8:02:03 PM >

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 8:22:25 PM   
DomAviator


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer


Not true.  Venomous snakes in captivity fed prekilled or frozen/thawed prey do not envenomate their food, and their growth and digestion rates are comparable to live-fed animals that do envenomate their prey.  Venom of certain kinds can be an excellent substitute for a reliable 90F basking zone, which is a significant evolutionary advantage in the wild.  In captivity when the 90F basking zone is turned on by a switch and is always available, it becomes almost irrelevant to digestion even in snakes that do have strong proteolytic enzyme components and antibacterial properties to their venom, indicating that it is useful in digestion during prolonged cold spells where basking in an optimum temperature zone may not be possible after eating.


Hmmm, wow I didnt realize that. Mine were wild caught so I always fed live food.  I wasnt going to play the "wiggle a dead rat or chick in front of it using tongs game" because I didnt want them to associate the movement of my hand with food. There is probably no scientific basis for that prejudice but I fed live anyway just because it seemed more natural for the snake and made me more comfortable. 

On a funny, albeit morbid, note I knew one idiot who got himself tagged by a crotalus horridus that he was trying to hand feed dead mice to. Basically this moron used regular mousetraps to catch your typical "house mouse"... Then he would hold the dead mouse by the tail and wiggle it in front of the timber rattler and/or smack it in the nose with it to entice a strike.  BRILLIANT. Sometimes its unfortunate that envomonation doesnt cause sterility because some genes just dont need to be passed down LOL

Anyway, thanks for the correction - I had no idea that the venom wasnt a necessary part of digestion.

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 8:41:13 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator
Hmmm, wow I didnt realize that. Mine were wild caught so I always fed live food.  I wasnt going to play the "wiggle a dead rat or chick in front of it using tongs game" because I didnt want them to associate the movement of my hand with food. There is probably no scientific basis for that prejudice but I fed live anyway just because it seemed more natural for the snake and made me more comfortable.


Bottom line is that captive snakes *will* associate keeper presence with food unless you take fairly ridiculous measures and use large enclosures with separate openings for cage maintenance and feeding.  And there's other issues with that, so I do recommend tongs/hemostats.  If you use hot water to warm the prey item to 100F, you won't need to wiggle it for a viper, and most elapids won't care whether it's hot or cold, moving or not, if it smells like dead rodent.

There are substantial risks to live feeding, and while it can at times be appropriate, it's not a good "standard default" choice.  For starters, WC snakes aren't necessarily adapted to the interesting gut flora and parasite vectors of pet shop rodents.  Prekilled is a safer way to go for the snake as a general rule, and frozen/thawed eliminates the disease vector as well as the potential injury issues.  Not all hot snakes are skilled at killing their food without being nibbled on in turn, and some are downright sorry at it.  No clue why this is or how these animals survive in the wild, but it's true.


quote:

On a funny, albeit morbid, note I knew one idiot who got himself tagged by a crotalus horridus that he was trying to hand feed dead mice to. Basically this moron used regular mousetraps to catch your typical "house mouse"... Then he would hold the dead mouse by the tail and wiggle it in front of the timber rattler and/or smack it in the nose with it to entice a strike.  BRILLIANT. Sometimes its unfortunate that envomonation doesnt cause sterility because some genes just dont need to be passed down LOL


**slaps forehead at the stupid**  Look up the secondary envenomation effects of Daboia russelli siamensis.  It does in fact cause sterility and loss of secondary sex characteristics in males via destruction of the glandular system.  Not many male herpers will work with that species. 

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RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 9:00:47 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

How about leaving the wildlife alone, especially slow reproducing apex predators?  Have you shot any bald eagles lately?  That has about the same effect on the ecosystem.  In its lifetime, each snake may eat a thousand or more rodents.  Most snakes are harmless to humans, and every snake you kill means not just 1,000 more rodents running around, but exponentially more than that as they breed explosively.  The snakes that are not harmless to humans are still very easy to walk around and give a respectful berth to.  Calling an expert for removal is a lot safer than attacking a snake if it is in your home or yard, and there are also safe, gentle techniques of containment you can operate from a distance that are far less risky than attacking a wild animal and escalating the violence of a situation that could have easily been handled peacefully.


Nope killing bald eagles is a Federal crime, so I don't do it.  Also, I have never been menaced by a bald eagle.  I have had a few scary encounters with snakes, and I don't like them.  A friend of mine's dog had puppies once, and we found a large black snake creeping up on the doghouse.  It got a shovel to the back of it's head. 

If they come within 10 feet of me, they are going to die.  As long as they keep their distance, then I will leave them alone.  If I am out fishing and one is coming too close for comfort, than it's going to become fish food.  I had a water moccassin drop down from a tree limb into a boat with me once, and I had to beat it to death with a boat paddle.  I won't go through that experience again. 

As for calling "experts", we have a local group of self-righteous snake lovers that like to go giving science lessons to people.  I'm sure you know the type; they are those dirty looking, long haired people garbed in hemp.  Of course none of these people are really experts.  They are just people that have this affinity for reptiles that I don't share. 

quote:

I fucking hate snake killers; they are the lowest and most despicable form of life.  Cowardly, stupid and incredibly short sighted.  More people every year are hospitalized or killed from rodent-borne diseases than are ever bitten by snakes.  If you fuck with Mother Nature, she fucks back.  


Well, I fucking hate self-righteous nature nuts, that always seem to exclude humans as being part of nature.  I hate people that want to show off their pet snakes to me.  I for one have a problem feeding my fellow mammals to reptiles, but that's just me.  You're entitled to go out and hug snakes all you want.  As for me, I stand by my policy of self preservation.  I upheld that policy last weekend when I poisoned a yellow jacket nest in my parent's yard for them.  I'm sure yellow jackets serve some purpose in nature, but I didn't want my 64 year old mother getting stung as she worked in her garden.  I guess I'm just a big coward. 

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 9:08:41 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
Most people are bitten because they tried to kill or catch a snake, not by accident, and of the people who were bitten by accident, most of them could easily have prevented it by using common sense safety rules (eg, don't wade into tall grass with sandals on, don't reach under a log where you can't see). 


Hell, if the fire ants don't teach somebody that, they're just not gonna learn

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 9:13:22 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

**slaps forehead at the stupid**  Look up the secondary envenomation effects of Daboia russelli siamensis.  It does in fact cause sterility and loss of secondary sex characteristics in males via destruction of the glandular system.  Not many male herpers will work with that species. 



Shit! Making note never to play with a Russels Viper!!! Guess theres more in Thailand that can create a eunch than just angry bar girls... LOL  (Hey that side effect does however provide an answer to the other thread on male hair removal as well as the one on  a long lasting soulution to shavin! )

I didnt think of the issues you raised. Good points. I assumed what comes out of a pet shop to be healthy but in retrospect I have bought enough 2 day life expectancy betta fish that I should have known better. I totally never even thought of the rat getting in a few good shots in and winning.... Yikes, thats the kind of thing you dont envision. On the feeding I never used tongs because I had self built enclosures with a "food box" on the side. So I would put "dinner" in the food box, close and lock it and then pull up a lexan divider providing the snake access to it and / or it access to the cage. Kind of an "airlock" arrangement  to keep my hands away at feeding time ...  If I was feeding dead, or live directly into the enclosure with no barrier between myself and the snake, i would definitely use tongs...  I was all about keeping my hands out of the way...

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: advice: too many tan spiders - 7/16/2008 9:24:17 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
A friend of mine's dog had puppies once, and we found a large black snake creeping up on the doghouse.  It got a shovel to the back of it's head. 


Native North American snakes are not puppy eaters.  Dumbass.


quote:

I had a water moccassin drop down from a tree limb into a boat with me once, and I had to beat it to death with a boat paddle.  I won't go through that experience again.


Agkistrodon piscivorus and other terrestrial viperids can't climb trees and all the nonvenomous constricting species can.  Again, dumbass. 

There's no "self preservation" involved here, just a total lack of knowledge and respect for nature.  If you have a problem feeding meat to obligate carnivores, I would suggest to avoid hypocrisy you had better be a vegetarian who uses something other than leather for your kink.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 60
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