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RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/14/2005 8:10:01 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

Look at it this way: When there are too many lawyers and too much competition between them, what do they do? Simple....They find ways to make more work for themselves, hence we end up with more laws and become more regulatory.

Now, I think if engineers had the same problem as lawyers and there were too many of them, society would end up much better off, as increased competition would only result in new inventions and breakthroughs in technology that would eventually make our lives much better.

JMHO

- The Ranger/UtopianRanger

i tend to agree with You. Some law schools should be closed, and fewer people should be admitted to the bar. However, it's a bit like closing military bases...no school will close voluntarially and as long as people keep applying and paying tuition they have a source of income. This society has an abundance of attorneys because there is profit in lawyering. Period. Possibly legisation to curb awards, etc., should be considered but all the proposals i have seen (such as the Neo-Natal Injury Fund in Florida) shield the wealthy wrong-doer from the poor victim, and none of these appeal to me.

Florida did reform the workers' comp system in about 1995 in an attempt to eliminate lawyers for applicants and recipients; that lasted until a few cases were decided and a new legislative session more or less passed amendments which allowed the lawyers back in.

i'm not the answer lady; i strongly support the tort lawyers because the represent the poor and are only paid if they win. However, i find some of them are extremely greedy; turning down cases with a chance of no more than a modest award despite the suffering of the client. For the most part lawyers, like other people, act in their own best interest and are profit-driven.

IMO, no one should go to law school unless they can picture themselves on their death bed saying "my one regret is that i never became a lawyer". Going because you have no idea what else to do or because daddy is a lawyer is just a waste of time and guarantees you an unhappy work life.

candystripper

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 21

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/14/2005 8:10:21 AM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
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I think it was Thomas Jefferson who proposed that criminals sentenced to death should be hanged in public the dawn following the trial and left in full public view until sundown. He further proposed that all the earthly possessions of the condemned man be sold and the proceeds split between the family of the condemned and the family of the victim. I think such swift, sure consequences might go a long way toward providing a deterrent.
I will note, however, that this "grand experiment" we call democracy was founded upon the idea that we, the constituency, are a basically moral people.
I believe it may also have been Jefferson who recognized that our form of self-governance would surely fail if we ever lost our moral underpinnings. I will leave it to the reader's judgment as to whether the current state of affairs is a direct result of the radical departure our society has taken from personal responsibility and Judeo-Christian ethics. I personally think that our current legal structure is not sustainable without a common understanding among the populace of what is and is not desirable for a healthy society. The current division, between those who recognize no higher authority beyond themselves and those who believe personal desire must sometimes be secondary to the greater good, does not allow for a workable compromise that might lead to increased consistency within the legal system.
It's my personal opinion that this inconsistency, where justice becomes a roll of the dice rather than a certainty, has lead to the lack of faith in the established system. Whenever consequence becomes divorced from action there is a decreased ability to guide behavior. Until and unless we see a sustained revival in consistently clear, logical applications of the law, I believe we will continue to see a decline in the effectiveness of the legal system and an increasing disregard for the rule of law, in general.
One of the biggest obstacles to the necessary reforms, IMO, is the mindset seen amongst the general public that cutting corners and bending rules is not a serious problem. Whether the blame lies with the deficiencies in public education or the decline of honesty and civility in our political climate, the result is the same. John Q. Public appears to subscribe to the theory that it's ok to shitcan the rulebook if it benefits him.
Personally, I think we're approaching the point of no return. Born in 1966, I am a member of the first generation raised under the idea that there is no greater responsibility than to be happy. As my generation comes into political power, I have no hope that we'll see a reversal of the current trend. I still teach my children that citizenship means more than a piece of paper given out at Awards Night, but it's obviously an alien concept that's not being taught in school.
Our schools do teach about the civil rights battles of the 60's and other important issues but they don't teach how it's all inter-connected with constitutional rights and citizen responsibility. I do want my children to know that they have certain rights but I also want them to understand their responsibilities as citizens and active participants in self-governance. I don't think that rights and responsibilities are currently being taught as the twin sides of the freedom coin.
I think if we want a society where murder is infrequent, we have a responsibility to demand that our elected officials make the consequences crystal clear and sufficiently onerous as to be a deterrent, not only to the guilty but also to those who might be contemplating murder. If we want a society where justice is truly blind, then we have a responsibility to demand the necessary changes that would result in such. In addition to demanding reform at the city, county, state or federal level, however, we must also be prepared to demand better of ourselves. We need to be committed to being involved at every level, staying informed and demanding that our officials make appropriate decisions.
If we cherry-pick only those issues that are near and dear to our hearts, we're ignoring the fundamental truth that it's all a part of the whole. It is, after all, our government and it does respond to our will, voiced through how we vote. One thing we can count on is that the squeaky wheel gets the grease and, until the populace makes its displeasure known in sufficient numbers, things will continue to follow the path of least resistance.
Timothy

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 22

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/14/2005 10:03:27 AM

Kindred2Evil

Posts: 227
Joined: 4/16/2005
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If you commit rape or murder you need to die. What is the point in letting these violent offenders sit on death row for years and years and years while we support them?????
There are hundreds of thousands of starving people in our country who are also homeless who could benefit from the money spent on keeping these prisoners alive and kicking in jail.
It makes me sick. There are middle and lower class families who can't get their kids into college due to lack of money, and yet we allow a prisoner to get his degree. What kind of mess is that????
If you're convicted of a violent crime, your hind end needs to be taken into a little steel room with a drain in the floor, put on your knees and have a bullet put into the back of your head. No fuss, no muss.
This country has allowed the penal system to become a seperate entity. Violent criminals are allowed early parole, insane criminals are put out on the streets because of overpopulation. Stop the madness, put them to death and be done with it. We waste millions upon millions of tax dollars supporting them and for what??????
If you kill someone or commit rape you don't deserve to be here. You're not human, you don't care about life so why should I care about yours?
Make a few executions public and you'd see a dramatic decrease in violent crime.
The only reason I think you should NOT be executed is if you took a life to save a life. If someone were to threaten my family or friends with a weapon, you can bet your sweet buttons I'd pull a trigger.

< Message edited by Kindred2Evil -- 11/14/2005 10:04:04 AM >

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(in reply to domtimothy46176)

Post #: 23

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/14/2005 10:31:29 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

It is, after all, our government and it does respond to our will, voiced through how we vote. One thing we can count on is that the squeaky wheel gets the grease and, until the populace makes its displeasure known in sufficient numbers, things will continue to follow the path of least resistance.

the will of the people is a powerful thing, yet change is so often slow to go. Voters passed the Compassionate Use Act almost a decade ago...and the Legislature followed it with SB420 almost 3 years ago, yet the federal government continues it's war against citizens who have demonstrated compliance with the state laws. Even the state itself has not implemented the programs called for by the legislation. Like UtopianRanger commented on the Euthenasia thread, the voters of Oregon have made their will known, yet the federal government still tries to subvert it. the will of the people is only as good as the resolve of the same people to stand up and be counted, to register and vote not just for the issues YOU feel apply to YOU, but that apply to us all. We are all setting the precedent for the future RIGHT NOW.

(in reply to domtimothy46176)

Post #: 24

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/14/2005 11:00:03 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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There is no other way that would be quicker fix and more beneficial to the US economy than to eliminate dramatically the opportunity for the legal industry to sue under the current system of litigation. Law suits are now seen as lottery tickets for a growing number of American's fueled by the legal industry's growing numbers, advertisement, and the marketing by the legal industry of the idea of "victimization". It is not a stretch to assume that in any 24 hour period a lawyer could follow you around and initiate at least one lawsuit on your behalf from your daily activity.

Most people have no idea how much the legal industry is costing them daily. From the cost of your coffee at McDonald's, to why you entire companies and the jobs that go with them, such as Piper Cub Aircraft and Monsanto, going out of business.

Band-aid "fixes" don't work. The primary cause is the omnipotent legal industry lobby and the fact that most legislators elected come from the ranks of attorneys. Some examples:

New York Auto Insurance:
There's been a significant decline in serious auto accidents in New York State—yet a serious increase in auto insurance costs. Why? The answer is that accidents may be down, but lawsuits are up. The lawsuit industry adds an estimated $400 a year to the average cost of insuring a car in New York State. Lawyers now get 35 percent of all the money paid out in auto insurance claims—more than goes for medical care and wage replacement, combined. (Source: http://www.bcnys.org/ppi/drive.htm)

Some other facts about Tort suits:

Tort costs grew by 5.4% in 2003 reaching a record $246 billion; that’s $845 per person, or $35 per person more than 2002.

We spend more than twice as much on our tort system in America as we do on new cars.

Los Angeles County alone has more than twice as many lawyers as all of Japan. Overall, the US has more than 40 times as many layers as Japan. (Source: http://www.legalreforminthenews.com/AJP/FF_LITLOT.pdf)

Tort costs not only distort the competitive standing of states – the magnitude of tort costs is so extreme that they are beginning to affect the willingness of exporters to do business in the United States. To gain an historical perspective consider: A 1988 survey by the Conference Board of more than 2,000 chief executive officers found that 47 percent of manufacturers have withdrawn products because of fear of litigation, 89 and 25 percent have discontinued some product research for that reason. If companies aren't making profits, or if they have to spend a lot of money on legal expenses, they have less to give back to the community. So do their shareholders. So do their workers. When companies are doing well, the community does well.
(Source: http://www.legalreforminthenews.com/speakers/cost_of_abuse/cost_1.html)

The SF Examiner, estimates that the trial law industry in the US could soon cost each family of four $4,000. per year!

But we are sold this concept as being beneficial and needed to "protect the poor". What percentage of the poor? Who could least afford the $1,000 per year price tag? What resources are the poor NOT getting because of law suits or the fear of lawsuits?

This long diatribe would not be complete without presenting a solution. In this case it's the simplest of any problem we discussed on these forums. With all tort cases the loser of the lawsuit pays ALL the cost associated with the suit. That's how simple it is.

People at fault will still pay settlements, because it would be less expensive than going though the process. It would force lawyers to actually PROVE their case, versus being forced to use the extortion principle of saying; "I'll drag this out for years, and handicap your business, and cost just as much to defend as I'm asking you to pay."

To those who would like to defend the existing tort system I'd suggest first pursing this link: http://www.power-of-attorneys.com/stupid_lawsuit_collection.asp?wacky=0

Here are a few tidbits:
The parents of a man found naked and dead on the back of a killer whale at SeaWorld Orlando are suing the marine park, alleging the dangerous orca was portrayed as a huggable stuffed toy, according to a lawyer representing the family.

A California man is suing the Las Vegas Hilton and Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino, claiming the casinos were negligent in allowing him to gamble away more than $1 million while he was intoxicated.

Two high school baton twirlers, who were cut from the majorettes program at North Haven High in Connecticut, have filed a lawsuit suing the coach, the athletic director and the high school principal, claiming the majorette coach violated their civil rights by cutting them from the team without just cause.

A Phoenix mother, who admitted lacing her daughters' ice cream with prescription tranquilizers, is suing a health care provider and others, saying they are responsible for her drug-induced delirium at the time.

A nudist whose feet were burned while fire walking has filed a lawsuit against the event organizers, accusing them of falsely leading participants to believe that the fire walk was safe.

Seven pages of actual lawsuits. Sure you'll laugh at most of them, but by the seventh page, you may wonder who is paying the settlements? Well - it's YOU. The money to fund the legal lottery pool is paid in by each and every one of us.

Those wanting additional reading material can view this source: http://www.overlawyered.com/

(in reply to Kindred2Evil)

Post #: 25

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/14/2005 11:06:16 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

If you commit rape or murder you need to die. What is the point in letting these violent offenders sit on death row for years and years and years while we support them?????
There are hundreds of thousands of starving people in our country who are also homeless who could benefit from the money spent on keeping these prisoners alive and kicking in jail.
It makes me sick. There are middle and lower class families who can't get their kids into college due to lack of money, and yet we allow a prisoner to get his degree. What kind of mess is that????
If you're convicted of a violent crime, your hind end needs to be taken into a little steel room with a drain in the floor, put on your knees and have a bullet put into the back of your head. No fuss, no muss.
This country has allowed the penal system to become a seperate entity. Violent criminals are allowed early parole, insane criminals are put out on the streets because of overpopulation. Stop the madness, put them to death and be done with it. We waste millions upon millions of tax dollars supporting them and for what??????
If you kill someone or commit rape you don't deserve to be here. You're not human, you don't care about life so why should I care about yours?
Make a few executions public and you'd see a dramatic decrease in violent crime.
The only reason I think you should NOT be executed is if you took a life to save a life. If someone were to threaten my family or friends with a weapon, you can bet your sweet buttons I'd pull a trigger.

Kindred2Evil

Man, You are not kidding as to the parole system. The man who assaulted and killed Polly Klaas was out on parole...the list just goes on and on. i'd give pedophiles the death penalty just like murders get. i'd revise the parole system so violent prisioners spent every last day of their sentences in prision -- and then go after them as mental defectives and lock them up in a forensic mental hospital for life. i'd make executions as public as possible and allow the victims' family a choice as to manner of death. i'd cut out state appeals altogether and send inmates to federal court; if they cannot make a writ of habeus corpus and cannot raise a constitutional issue -- BANG! -- you're dead.

i would also release everyone serving time on non-violent drug charges and legalise drugs; but that's a different debate.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/14/2005 11:09:42 AM >

(in reply to Kindred2Evil)

Post #: 26

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/14/2005 10:24:21 PM

angelus04

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Joined: 11/1/2005
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I agree with Pantera and those who think that if it is a violent crime like rape or murder they should kill them. Well the rapists they should castrate them then kill them of course since they might want to die after that maybe we should leave them alive after we castrate them. Same thing about the pedophiles castrate them. However those who are in jail for doing drugs they should be getting counseling not jail time. Drugs should be legal and the only reason there not is because our government would lose money afterall they need the money that they get from the drug lords to keep our country running

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 27

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 12:14:41 AM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

quote:

If you're convicted of a violent crime, your hind end needs to be taken into a little steel room with a drain in the floor, put on your knees and have a bullet put into the back of your head. No fuss, no muss.

And what if You are that person and were wrongly Accused and Convicted???

*Brightspot

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

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(in reply to Kindred2Evil)

Post #: 28

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 9:12:42 AM

Kindred2Evil

Posts: 227
Joined: 4/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

quote:

If you're convicted of a violent crime, your hind end needs to be taken into a little steel room with a drain in the floor, put on your knees and have a bullet put into the back of your head. No fuss, no muss.

And what if You are that person and were wrongly Accused and Convicted???

*Brightspot

That's what DNA evidence is for. It's damn near impossible to keep DNA from being left behind at the scene of a crime. We constantly shed skin cells and hair. More than one criminal has been caught this way.
I'm not saying the system is perfect and in rare casses some innocents get caught up in it. It sucks. But in the end, wouldn't it be easier and better for the world all the way around to put an end to these people? They have no value. I'm sorry, I know that sounds harsh and cold. But it's the truth. What value is there in a being that has no sense of right or wrong? What value is there in a person who could care less about the pain they inflict not only on their victems but on their families? Where is the value in a person who hurts children? I can't find one saving grace to those kind of people. You can't rehabilitate a child molester. You can't rehabilitate a murderer. They are what they are and don't deserve to be cared for and looked after for the rest of their life.
It's a case of the good of the many outweighs the good of the few. If a few innocents get caught in the machine, my heart goes out to them. I know I'd hate it if it were someone I cared about. But in the end, if changing this sort of thing helps out our country, well, so be it.

_____________________________

Her touch is on the breeze that brushes your cheek, Her voice rides the thunder as the storm breaks, Her tears will clean your heartache when the rains come, Her sun will light the darkest times when you feel alone...She is the Goddess.

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 29

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 10:27:55 AM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
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quote:

That's what DNA evidence is for. It's damn near impossible to keep DNA from being left behind at the scene of a crime. We constantly shed skin cells and hair. More than one criminal has been caught this way.
I'm not saying the system is perfect and in rare casses some innocents get caught up in it. It sucks. But in the end, wouldn't it be easier and better for the world all the way around to put an end to these people? They have no value. I'm sorry, I know that sounds harsh and cold. But it's the truth. What value is there in a being that has no sense of right or wrong? What value is there in a person who could care less about the pain they inflict not only on their victems but on their families? Where is the value in a person who hurts children? I can't find one saving grace to those kind of people. You can't rehabilitate a child molester. You can't rehabilitate a murderer. They are what they are and don't deserve to be cared for and looked after for the rest of their life.
It's a case of the good of the many outweighs the good of the few. If a few innocents get caught in the machine, my heart goes out to them. I know I'd hate it if it were someone I cared about. But in the end, if changing this sort of thing helps out our country, well, so be it.

DNA is not always left at a scene.
My question was what if this person down on their knees about to get shot in the head was You or a son, daughter, mother Wrongly Accused and Convicted?

Another perspective is that everyone on Death Row has a family usually a mother that doesn't believe their lives have no value.
It is true that to rape, molest, murder are henious crimes and that the people who commit those crimes should be punished.
"An eye for an eye" to me does not mean to me "You killed so now we kill you" IMO it means more in the sense of "What goes around comes around", does two wrongs really make a right? I believe it is wrong to kill ANYONE, or any living creature as a matter of fact unless it is in self defense or preservation of your own life.

The death penalty has been proven NOT to be a deterrant to henious crimes, just look at the statistics for Texas, where they don't wait long to put someone to death and all the murders that take place there, just one example.
And until the justice system can figure out some way where under No circumstances is a person wrongly accused and convicted it should not be implemented. Like I said before just one Completely Innocent Person being put to death is one way toooooo many!

*Brightspot

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

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(in reply to Kindred2Evil)

Post #: 30

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 12:18:49 PM

darkinshadows

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(this is not aimed at brightspot - shes just the last on the list here)

I know.

Next time a man is accused of rape and torture after pissing off a person who claimed to him to be a submissive and had scened with him before... and He pleads for his life, but hey - the DNA evidence is there, the marks, the tell tale signs of confinement...

Those of You who believe in the death penelty - You can push the button.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 31

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 1:56:38 PM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkangel

Those of You who believe in the death penelty - You can push the button.

Not a problem. If I was offered the chance to "push the button" when my brother's murderer gets executed, I would gladly do so.

~stef

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(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 32

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 2:09:52 PM

darkinshadows

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Then I pray You 'find' the right persons.

Peace and Rapture

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Post #: 33

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 2:26:30 PM

stef

Posts: 10215
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No prayer is necessary when there are 14 eyewitnesses and security camera video of the murder, but thanks just the same.

~stef

_____________________________

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"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 34

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 7:00:59 PM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
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quote:

1. Free all non-violent drug related offerders and make all drugs legal

I always knew that one day we'd both agree on something. HAR! Defending and keeping low-level drug offenders tied up in the penal-system is miscarriage of justice. Both the prison lobby and lawyers guild oughta be brought up on a RICCO statute for conspiring to defraud the tax payers of this great land.

- The Ranger

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(in reply to pantera)

Post #: 35

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 7:09:53 PM

mnottertail

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You get 12 people in the room (maybe 16) who don't get any stimulus from the outside world, who spend most of their days listening (or not) to sidebars (which fundamentally is as comprehensible and as reprehensible as crack) and some asshole says 'Why would the cop lie?', thereby leaving you with the assumption that if you buy the assumption you buy the deal. Aint no truth in it. It is called adversarial argument.

The truth rarely wins out. That's why Texas can make a living putting the fry to those of short fingers.......and why people who are left with the aftermath of reality sit unrequited.

Stef, I am sorry, I agree... 2005 sucks and so will 2006.

Ron

_____________________________

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Post #: 36

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 7:24:29 PM

Kindred2Evil

Posts: 227
Joined: 4/16/2005
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All criminals have parents. Some are husbands, fathers, wives, mothers, daughters and sons. I'm not a biblical person, but I have heard the old testament "An eye for an eye". I agree with it. You hurt me or mine, I'd happily and with great fierce joy in my heart pull the trigger, flip the switch, jerk the rope or push the plunger to end their sorry existance. I'd do so without guilt, and I'd sleep better knowing that at least this person would never ever harm another or destroy another family ever again.
No, it wouldn't bring back what I had lost, but it would be over.

As for the innocent being put to death, I'd hate that. I would feel grief over that. It happens. I realize that when it does, it in itsself destroys another family and leaves it's mark behind. I can't tell you how I would react, I don't know. I do believe in justice, that in the end it will be served either here or on the next plain of existance. I just feel it's within our rights to serve it up to those who deserve it in the here and now.

I've never stated that it doesn't happen, that innocent people aren't put in jail, or prison for life or executed. I say again, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If putting all the people on death row to death instead of serving them up a lifetime in a cell helps our economy and the families they've hurt to earn their spot there, do it.

_____________________________

Her touch is on the breeze that brushes your cheek, Her voice rides the thunder as the storm breaks, Her tears will clean your heartache when the rains come, Her sun will light the darkest times when you feel alone...She is the Goddess.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 37

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/15/2005 8:20:15 PM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

The death penalty has been proven NOT to be a deterrant to henious crimes, just look at the statistics for Texas, where they don't wait long to put someone to death and all the murders that take place there, just one example.
And until the justice system can figure out some way where under No circumstances is a person wrongly accused and convicted it should not be implemented. Like I said before just one Completely Innocent Person being put to death is one way toooooo many!

*Brightspot

I will agree that the death penalty, as it is currently administered, is not much of a deterrent. It's my belief, however, that the currents system produces a lack of connection between action and consequence. I think that before we dismiss the effectiveness of the death penalty, it must first be shown to be ineffective when applied with sufficient swiftness to effect a causal relation between the offense and the punishment within the public eye.
We have sanitized the death penalty to the point where it's ineffective, even in states that use it generously, such as Texas, although we disagree as to the effectiveness of the death penalty in the Lone Star state. I think if you look at a direct comparison based on metropolitan areas of equal size and similar racial percentages, you'll find that Texan justice has an effect greater than that which can be dismissed as statistical variance. It is important to note, however, that the entire system is mired in inconsistencies that hinder the effectiveness at all levels. Even swift, harsh justice meted out inconsistently will fail to be effective at providing an efficient deterrent. The law must be both blind to class and race as well as logically consistent at all levels in order to engender an atmosphere that promotes good citizenship.
There are no easy fixes within a system that has been damaged by decades of bad case law, contra-constitutional rulings and legal precedents that should have long since been revisited. I would support a moratorium on executions were it to come within the context of reforming the entire US justice system apparatus. Barring such sweeping changes, string them up on the courthouse lawn and install a turnstile at the base of the gallows. The risk of executing an innocent pales in comparison to the danger of allowing the anarchy to increase to the point where civil governance becomes impossible.
Timothy

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 38

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/16/2005 7:49:49 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

That's what DNA evidence is for. It's damn near impossible to keep DNA from being left behind at the scene of a crime. We constantly shed skin cells and hair. More than one criminal has been caught this way.
I'm not saying the system is perfect and in rare casses some innocents get caught up in it. It sucks. But in the end, wouldn't it be easier and better for the world all the way around to put an end to these people? They have no value. I'm sorry, I know that sounds harsh and cold. But it's the truth. What value is there in a being that has no sense of right or wrong? What value is there in a person who could care less about the pain they inflict not only on their victems but on their families? Where is the value in a person who hurts children? I can't find one saving grace to those kind of people. You can't rehabilitate a child molester. You can't rehabilitate a murderer. They are what they are and don't deserve to be cared for and looked after for the rest of their life.
It's a case of the good of the many outweighs the good of the few. If a few innocents get caught in the machine, my heart goes out to them. I know I'd hate it if it were someone I cared about. But in the end, if changing this sort of thing helps out our country, well, so be it.

Kindred2Evil

Some very inexpensive changes would reduce the chance of an innocent person facing execution. One very important one would be videotaping all police interrogations in a murder case. Another would be legislation preventing DA's from "overcharging" murder one when it is nothing but manslaughter -- such as "one punch homicides". It might even be best to empanel a committee of lawyers, citizens amd police to determine when a DA may seek the death penalty; thereby removing the "gotta get reelected" initiative from the DA.

i disagree with You that it is acceptable to execute innocent people in the name of the "greater good"; but once a death penalty has been imposed, the number of years it requires to carry out should somehow be reduced. As for states where the death penalty did not apply for a time or does not now, we see horrific results such as Charles Manson up for parole this year. The states should be aligned; a Code of Death Penalty cases should be developed and states "encouraged" to adhere. It makes no sense to execute a spousal killer in Florida and parole Charles Manson in California.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/16/2005 8:05:21 AM >

(in reply to Kindred2Evil)

Post #: 39

RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/16/2005 7:55:51 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

The death penalty has been proven NOT to be a deterrant to henious crimes, just look at the statistics for Texas, where they don't wait long to put someone to death and all the murders that take place there, just one example.
And until the justice system can figure out some way where under No circumstances is a person wrongly accused and convicted it should not be implemented. Like I said before just one Completely Innocent Person being put to death is one way toooooo many!

brightspot

Obviously, yours is a very popular position. Many facts -- such as the increased cost of execution vs. LWPP -- are available to support it. You are also right about DNA evidence; and possibly legislation should be passed to prevent DA's from seeking the death penalty where their evidence of guilt is an eye witness or a confession, without any "direct" evidence such as DNA. i could support either position; but IMO something needs to be done.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/16/2005 7:56:38 AM >

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 40

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