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RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 3:26:56 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		How is it you fellows blithely skip passed the issue of imbalance within the system? That more dark skinned people sit on death row is a fact. What, those "darkies" just kill more people than other folks? The system is utterly fucked. Racism is rampant. Classism is rampant. And the police support status quo. The police aren't seeking the truth - they seek a likely "suspect" - and that's two very different things.

BTW, there is no requirement that DNA evidence be used. Are you guys high? DNA evidence is a whole other expense...

I think the lesson to take away from a classic like "Les Miserables" is that we create/allow poverty and that crime is the product of the desperation that grows from poverty. I used to live in West Oakland, CA and I can assure you that when you attend a school where even the toilets and emergency exits do not work that your chances of growing up with a good education are very slight. Young black men have a hard time making it to even 20 years of age without being gunned down in the streets. Career options really are something like McDonald's or gang influenced drug dealing. Which would you choose?

You can talk about bootstrapping until you are blue in the face, but until you see the desperation with your own eyes you simply cannot form a proper opinion.

The death penalty is just another way of punishing the least fortunate. They aren't the guilty - they are scapegoats for a whole host of laws, decisions, and circumstances that keep otherwise perfectly decent people down and under the thumb of the wealthier and fairer skinned classes. The fact of it is that one of the highest priorities is in the U.S. is to protect the property of those that have property and to keep it from those that do not have any property. That sounds fair at first glance, but it isn't actually.

I can assure you that such a classist hierarchy will change. The French have begun to have riots and we have had them periodically for some time. When you devalue labor to the point where a segment of population simply has no access to the standard of living of the rest of society you will breed criminality and rioting. You can't float the economy with thanks to China, buy cheap Chinese labor offshore, all while telling the people at home to go get subsistence jobs that simply do not exist with educations they do not possess.

Yeah, maybe that will cause some level of discontent - just maybe...

You expect to kill them all? That's funny. They will slit your throats while you sleep. In fact, they do...and you won't stop it. Why can't you stop it? Because when you have nothing to live for, or even intend to die on purpose, you can achieve almost anything. That's the problem posed by the kamikaze, the suicide bomber, and any kind of real insurgent. The sad part is how these political rebels don't even think of themselves that way - to themselves they are just hungry, or cold, or wanting something they have always been denied - the day they pick up a weapon or strap on a bomb they just don't care about civility anymore. We have won, utterly broken them down to a point where they are ready to go out with bang - taking a few of us with them.

While we fat, comfortable members of the electorate - we who have so much to lose - sit around considering the value of certain punishment policies, other are out there planning chaos - and they have nothing to lose whatever.





_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to Wolf1020)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 3:38:17 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		i couldnt read all of this thread...but i have something to say re a particular person that is scheduled to be executed in December.

i really hope Stanley (Tookie) Williams gets clemency from the Governor, i think he is more valuable alive than dead with the work he is doing now for children and to stop gang violence, heck he has even been nominated for the nobel peace prize multiple times while sitting on death row.

i only know of him from the movie they made about it called 'Redemption"..and i know movies can be made to color things a certain way...yet the fact remains, he is writing these books, he is helping people and he has been recognised and nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 5:25:47 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		There was a woman in Texas who underwent a religious conversion after reaching Death Row. Her supporters claimed this conversion meant she was a "new person" and clemency should be applied. They executed her anyway.

The possibility of a death row inmate becoming a worthwhile person in prision looms large. Many have claimed religious conversions and doubtless many are genuine.

The question then becomes: after the crime for which they were placed under a death sentence, can they redeem themselves and save their lives?

Different people would answer the hypothetical differently, for lots of reasons. Myself, i believe a person can commit acts so heinous that he or she is no longer fit for for society -- any society, including prision. However, that does not give a complete picture of my opinon on the death penalty as so many issues -- such as the execution of innocent people -- are not addressed.

Frankly, i do not give a hoot that John Wayne Gacy may have been a talented painter or that Ted Bundy may have had information about the whereabouts of more girls' bodies. When the time comes, i see no need for delay. (i do realise that these men are not representative of the death row population -- they are special cases.)

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/26/2005 5:26:53 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 7:48:08 AM   
Wolf1020


Posts: 447
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline
quote:

How is it you fellows blithely skip passed the issue of imbalance within the system? That more dark skinned people sit on death row is a fact. What, those "darkies" just kill more people than other folks? The system is utterly fucked. Racism is rampant. Classism is rampant. And the police support status quo. The police aren't seeking the truth - they seek a likely "suspect" - and that's two very different things.

Now I'm not a racist or anything but drive through the middle of the inner city (which is presumably a mostly minorities) and drive through middle America. Which one has more crime and especially murder? Again I'm not tying to come off as a racist but you are going to find more crime in your more impoverished communities and the bulk of people in those communities are minorities. Does being a minority make you more likely to be a criminal? No, the culture you are raised in does. It's just a sad fact more minorities grow up in the culture and area's more likely to spawn criminals. You don't see farm boys white black yellow or green gunning each other down on the sidewalk. Just so happens the majority of farm boys are white boys, and the majority of inner city boys are black. Its a sad truth but it is so if the prison population is overwhelmingly black sorry but I don't buy racism. I buy which areas spawn the majority of violent criminals and what sort of people come from those areas. A white kid growing up in the "ghetto" can just as easily be a criminal. Cultural, not racial is what spawns a criminal.

quote:

I think the lesson to take away from a classic like "Les Miserables" is that we create/allow poverty and that crime is the product of the desperation that grows from poverty. I used to live in West Oakland, CA and I can assure you that when you attend a school where even the toilets and emergency exits do not work that your chances of growing up with a good education are very slight. Young black men have a hard time making it to even 20 years of age without being gunned down in the streets. Career options really are something like McDonald's or gang influenced drug dealing. Which would you choose?

Whose fault is that? Mine for being white? The governments? No, it is the people within a community that make it. Go out get a job don't do drugs and you can make a decent living. Change your community you see something shady call the police. Run the drug dealers off your street. As for the schooling? I don't know it was just a few days ago I was talking to a black kid that grew up right in the middle of gang turf in Tampa and is going to college and will be having a nice career. People who consider themselves victims are. People willing to work to better themselves can that is a pure and simple fact. We have created a welfare state where people increasingly expect the government to give and take care of them. Your life and where it goes is up to you, not the government. YOU have to work to better your circumstances. If you drop out of school in the ninth grade to sell drugs and then see the light later then yes McDonalds may be the top of your career but that is your own doing, not that of the evil system.

quote:

The death penalty is just another way of punishing the least fortunate. They aren't the guilty - they are scapegoats for a whole host of laws, decisions, and circumstances that keep otherwise perfectly decent people down and under the thumb of the wealthier and fairer skinned classes. The fact of it is that one of the highest priorities is in the U.S. is to protect the property of those that have property and to keep it from those that do not have any property. That sounds fair at first glance, but it isn't actually.

The death penalty doesn't punish the less fortunate, it punishes scum bag murderers. Last I looked there were white people on death row too. If it just so happens to be a black kid is more likely to be holding the gun in a drive bye then that isn't anyone's fault but his own. It is the victim I don't have a choice mentality and what his mentality is his and his alone. When you convince yourself to succeed you will. There are plenty of doctors lawyers and other highly schooled well paying professions that have minorities in them, but you wont see an inner city kid with a the white man got me down attitude making it. You will see an inner city kid that is willing to work to better his situation make it though. Ultimately, you and you alone control your destiny not the evil white man.

quote:

You expect to kill them all? That's funny. They will slit your throats while you sleep. In fact, they do...and you won't stop it.

Kill them all? No not by a long shot. I do however plan to take as many with me as possible. I promises you you break into my home I have a bunch of little friends that hit a lat harder and run a lot faster then you do. And I don't expect to kill anyone who isn't a criminal. If you are a violent criminal then hey I don't feel sorry for you. You made yourself a criminal, no one else.

quote:

Because when you have the nothing to live for, or even intend to die on purpose, you can achieve almost anything. That's the problem posed by the kamikaze, the suicide bomber, and any kind of real insurgent. The

That's why the idea is to take care of them where they can do the least amount of damage to you and kill them before they can hit the switch or crash the plane.

quote:

While we fat, comfortable members of the electorate - we who have so much to lose - sit around considering the value of certain punishment policies, other are out there planning chaos - and they have nothing to lose whatever.

And that's why I plan and prepare to defend what I have to loose that they want. I advocate to everyone to do the same and when the SHTF to not expect the government to take care of them.

Again, I'm not a racist and if I come off as one I'm sorry but I assure you I am not. But I refuse to buy into the victim of society and no other choice argument. A criminal is a criminal. If you murder someone I don't care if you are black or white yellow or brown. I don't care about your skin color if you rape someone or a little kid you should be led out the back of the court house and get a bullet in the head. And yeah I advocate that for child molesters, a group made up mainly by white men. It doesn't have anything to do with race. It has to do with punishing a criminal for being a criminal, something he or she decided to be.

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RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 11:24:00 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

That more dark skinned people sit on death row is a fact. What, those "darkies" just kill more people than other folks? The system is utterly fucked. Racism is rampant.


I know how people hate it when facts get in the way of rhetoric, but; since of Gary Gilmore's; "Let's do it." in 1977; 997 prisoners have been executed. 58% of those executed were white, 34% were black, 6% Hispanic and 2% were the inevitable "other". As far as the total prison population, 75% are white, while non-Latino blacks comprise just over 12%. This comes from the local LA paper the Daily Breeze, not the RNC.

Money to pay for a good lawyer are the difference between a death sentence, prison, or even freedom. OJ, and Robert Blake, are poster boys. Scott Peterson just didn't have enough money. The "even playing field" isn't race it's quality of defense. Prosecutors hands are tied more stringently than any slave's. How incredible is it that the argument about admissible evidence isn't whether it implicates the suspect or not, but if it was collected "legally". If the murder weapon was dropped next to the garbage you need a search warrant, in the garbage no search warrant needed. If you've ever seen NYC dumpsters, "next to" is arbitrary. With all the road blocks and speed bumps and mandatory appeals its a wonder anyone has been executed.

Since 1999, 100,000 people have been murdered in the US. Four of which by the aforementioned founder of the Crips, Stanly Williams. Mr. Williams is in prison for the murder of 4 people during two robberies. He was turned in by his partners. He thought the sounds of the death rattle of his first victim amusing. To date he has neither admitted guilt or expressed any regret over his actions. But he does write children's books. His jailers suspect in his spare time he is still orchestrating gangland crimes from his cell. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10089175/from/RL.5/)

Considering that black gangs predominant victims are other black gang members; the "racist" solution may be to let him live and release him. However, consider that his "good work" may spread even further if executed. He'll be a "martyr". Just look how Jesus Christ's legacy grew after he was executed.

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RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 12:53:17 PM   
candystripper


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quote:

Whose fault is that? Mine for being white? The governments? No, it is the people within a community that make it.

Wolf1020


i agree with some of what You've said...disagreed with other things. i think You may not know the inner cities up north were well-integrated (at least to a degree) and middle class people lived there..until the busing decisions and white flight. Lordy, the misery that caused...and the schools are now more segregated than before. When people grow up in danger, poverty, hopelessness, second-rate citizens in the eyes of their communities; when they fail to get lead-based paint abatement or even adequate weatherization; when no one models for them a way out; these people remain poor and desperate. i had no idea i could go to college; my guidance counselor drove me to her alma mater and registered me, arranged my housing, financial aid and even books in one day. i felt like i was transported to another planet. To walk the street (at any time) without fear was such a new experience for me. Not everyone with the brains and talent to go to college has someone like my guidance counselor to look out for them. Without her, i'd be waiting table today -- a honorable profession i worked alot in my day, but not a dream job for someone my age.

candystripper

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RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 1:52:29 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
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quote:

However, consider that his "good work" may spread even further if executed. He'll be a "martyr". Just look how Jesus Christ's legacy grew after he was executed.


i have thought on that aspect actually. The work he has been doing in jail "could" become a stronger influence if he is executed. Still though, im just looking from a productivity point of view.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 2:23:25 PM   
Chaingang


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Joined: 10/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I know how people hate it when facts get in the way of rhetoric...


Mmmmokay...how about we compare notes with the U.S. Dept. Of Justice, the ACLU, the BBC, the L.A. Times, and Death Penalty Info Org who are actually siting federal studies? Yes, we don't want those pesky facts getting in the way....too true...

...

http://www.usdoj.gov/dag/pubdoc/deathpenaltystudy.htm

In announcing the results of the Sept. 12 report, Attorney General Reno noted that the information showed racial/ethnic disparities in the federal death penalty system, in comparison to the general population. Specifically, as noted above, in the 682 cases submitted to the Department's death penalty review procedure by U.S. Attorney offices between 1995 and July 2000, 20% involved White defendants, 48% involved Black defendants, and 29% involved Hispanic defendants.

[Editorial note: that's 20% "white" to 77% "brown" leaving 3% unaccounted in the statement.]

Within the broader pool of potential capital cases, the racial and ethnic proportions were again found to be different from those in the general population. This broader pool of cases involved 973 defendants, in comparison with the 682 defendants in the cases submitted to the departmental review procedure.(10) Of the 973 defendants in the broader class, 17% (166) were White, 42% (408) were Black, and 36% (350) were Hispanic.(11)

[Editorial note: So again, that's 17% "white" to 78% "brown" leaving 5% unaccounted in the statement.]

...

http://www.aclu.org//capital/unequal/10389pub20030226.html

The color of a defendant and victim's skin plays a crucial and unacceptable role in deciding who receives the death penalty in America. People of color have accounted for a disproportionate 43 % of total executions since 1976 and 55 % of those currently awaiting execution. A moratorium of the death penalty is necessary to address the blatant prejudice in our application of the death penalty.

The jurisdictions with the highest percentages of minorities on its death row:

U.S. Military (86%)
Colorado (80%)
U.S. Government (77%)
Louisiana (72%)
Pennsylvania (70%)

While white victims account for approximately one-half of all murder victims, 80% of all Capital cases involve white victims. Furthermore, as of October 2002, 12 people have been executed where the defendant was white and the murder victim black, compared with 178 black defendants executed for murders with white victims.

For many years reports from around the country have found that a pervasive racial prejudice in the application of the death penalty exists.

...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1396786.stm

But according to Amnesty International, race does play a prominent role in who lives and who dies.

Death sentences are more likely when the defendant is black, and especially if the victim is white, say campaigners.

...

Published on Wednesday, September 13, 2000 in the Los Angeles Times (but since I think you can't easily get to their archives the link is here instead)
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/091300-02.htm

"Study Finds Racial Gap on Death Row"
More black convicts face capital punishment than whites. Activists call for a federal moratorium on executions.

WASHINGTON--A Justice Department study has found that black convicts in the federal penal system face the death penalty much more often than white prisoners, confirming the arguments of those who say that capital punishment is not applied uniformly.

The statistical survey, the first comprehensive study of the federal death penalty since it was reinstated in 1988, found a wide racial disparity in recommendations for capital punishment from federal prosecutors across the country. Roughly three-fourths of federal defendants recommended for capital punishment over the last five years were minorities.

President Clinton said that the figures raise concerns "since we're supposed to have a uniform law of the land." But he added that there had been "no suggestion, as far as I know, that any of the [federal] cases where convictions occurred were wrongly decided."

...

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=29&did=147

Minorities Dominate Federal Death Penalty Prosecutions Since 1988, the federal government has authorized seeking the death penalty against 211 defendants. Of the 211 approved prosecutions, 158 (75%) were against minority defendants. Of these defendants, 53 have been white, 39 Hispanic, 12 Asian/Indian/Pacific Islander, 2 Arab and 105 African American. Of the twenty inmates currently on federal death row, 17 (85%) are members of a minority group.

...

BTW, all I did was google the info. I think we have to take certain sources at face value - such as the USDOJ.

Next?



< Message edited by Chaingang -- 11/26/2005 2:25:00 PM >

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 2:38:18 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

Chaingang: Next?


My compliments on your response and the citing of sources.

Dueling sources or a different way to look at the same numbers?

quote:

According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, blacks committed 51.5% of murders between 1976 and 1999, while whites committed 46.5%. Yet even though blacks committed a majority of murders, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reports: "Since the death penalty was reinstated by the Supreme Court in 1976, white inmates have made up the majority of those under sentence of death." Whites continued to comprise the majority on death row in the year 2000 (1,990 whites to 1,535 blacks and 68 others). In the year 2000, 49 of the 85 people actually put to death were whites.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2002/06-03-2002/vo18no11_fallacies.htm

It also seems the US Government conducted their own study. The Justice Department's review of existing federal death penalty procedures has produced no evidence of bias against racial or ethnic minorities, ...
: http://www.usdoj.gov/dag/pubdoc/deathpenaltystudy.htm

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 3:26:48 PM   
Chaingang


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Joined: 10/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Dueling sources or a different way to look at the same numbers?


The point you are avoiding is this one: "... noted that the information showed racial/ethnic disparities in the federal death penalty system, in comparison to the general population." It's not what each individual prosecutor is doing, it's in the overall picture.

That's the main issue right there. And nothing explains that except that society creates the situation that creates these kinds of crimes and criminals. Simply put: we ghettoize a group and then act surprised by the results.

Well, sorry - I am not surprised at all.

BTW, and without offense, you seem to keep citing sources that I don't easily recognize and in general I assume they have a very particular bias. I am just going to take a stab and suggest that the New American is either right-wing or Libertarian. In an attempt to find more impartial sources I cited what I thought were generally well-known and well respected sources including the justice department itself - you are citing my source, the same URL! And what we have there is one administration saying one thing, and another administration saying another (and I thought it fair to link to a document citing both views). I don't know about you, but I do not trust the statements made by the current administration very much at all - so where they stuck to facts I cited them, where there was room for interpretation I did not.

A Further note:
The subtext for the whole right-wing versus the center (there is no viable left in the U.S.) is that Bush was governor of Texas and he was just rubber stamping death penalty cases like a motherfucker. But even Clinton wanted to keep the face of impartiality. Any party that comes across as soft on crime is simply not going to get any votes. Nobody wants to solve the problems we have, but they absolutely refuse to come across as "soft on crime." Therefore, each party has to "seem" more punishing than the others.

...

ghetto: A section of a city occupied by a minority group who live there especially because of social, economic, or legal pressure.


< Message edited by Chaingang -- 11/26/2005 3:42:02 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 8:27:11 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

That's the main issue right there. And nothing explains that except that society creates the situation that creates these kinds of crimes and criminals. Simply put: we ghettoize a group and then act surprised by the results.

Well, sorry - I am not surprised at all.


Chain,

I also am not surprised. I would argue though if it's the "we" who ghettoize a group, or the group that ghettoized themselves with others assistance. By "assistance" I mean by being enablers. In an effort to help, we provide crutches. Good, but a fishing pole is better than a daily minimum supply of fish. When a woman getting governmental support can't work because that would mean she doesn't qualify any longer for the government supplied health coverage for her children society has enabled that family to fail because the government allotment never enables progress. When a man in the picture cuts off assistance, the child grows up with half a family. However, as bad as the enablers are, the rationalized excuses are worse. Just today, the trampling at Walmart was blamed not on the people who ran over other people to save a few bucks, but Walmart; courtesy and consideration of others is no longer to be expected.

As for my sources, they come from both sides of the political aisle. I've sighted the communist party as much as the RNC. In fact, I prefer to find sources not on my side. It's a hobby of mine to use an contrary side's own argument against them. However, the Justice Department report came from the Justice Department. But as a devote political pragmatist, I side with the side that seems to support logic. For example, the reason I believe the death penalty is not a deterrent is because of the numbers we both cited. In 28 years less than 1000 sentenced to death have died. In the last 28 years over 500,000 have been murdered. To be caught, convicted, sentenced to death, and die, is a greater than 500 to 1 chance.

I'd agree about the no viable left. It's splintered so much into special interests that hate each other they can't develop a majority coalition. What's missing is the Liberal party of the 60's & 70's. Liberal didn't used to mean left. Liberal ideals evolved and many ex-liberals also became ex-democrats. The fates of both groups have run parallel because the other side only has to be "anti" left and the majority coalition is in place.

Only the absolute corruption of this power, which we are starting to witness with assumption that right wing Christian "values" have been mandated because a Bush majority voted in 2004, will ultimately end it. The reality is there is, as you point out, still a "center" who swings on one or two key planks of the candidates platform. In 2004 it was Kerry's vacillation regarding the Iraq War, and Bush's speaking in absolutes. On the current course, that won't happen in 2008. Too many other negative factors have come into play. The question is, will the candidate put up be so reprehensible to the electorate "center" that they again have to vote for a person they have to lie about during the exit pole?

I know I won't convince you. Again, appreciate your references. Be well.

(in reply to Chaingang)
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RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 9:46:21 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

How is it you fellows blithely skip passed the issue of imbalance within the system? That more dark skinned people sit on death row is a fact. What, those "darkies" just kill more people than other folks? The system is utterly fucked. Racism is rampant. Classism is rampant. And the police support status quo. The police aren't seeking the truth - they seek a likely "suspect" - and that's two very different things.


What's the difference in OJ simpson and Scott Petterson?

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 9:51:30 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

Now for the record I do think that if you steal a car (going for modern equivalent of horse thief) the death penalty might be on the extreme side


The interesting thing about Texas is that the "Horse Theft" law is still in the law books. Grand Theft Auto is a crime where you do time. Sure a DA would most likely go for probation/community service and fines for stealing a horse but legaly still has the right to push for Hanging by the neck till DEAD!

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/26/2005 9:58:54 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

Nobody wants to solve the problems we have,


Just exactly is the problem?

< Message edited by FangsNfeet -- 11/26/2005 9:59:18 PM >

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RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/27/2005 8:50:47 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

What's the difference in OJ simpson and Scott Petterson?


$15 Million for the defense versus $1 Million.

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RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/27/2005 2:35:20 PM   
candystripper


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quote:

How is it you fellows blithely skip passed the issue of imbalance within the system? That more dark skinned people sit on death row is a fact. What, those "darkies" just kill more people than other folks? The system is utterly fucked. Racism is rampant. Classism is rampant. And the police support status quo. The police aren't seeking the truth - they seek a likely "suspect" - and that's two very different things.

Chaingang


Beg pardon, but i have spoken about these issues. i know this debate can be emotional for some people -- probably should be -- but let's not play "King of the Mountain".

candyatripper

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/27/2005 5:12:05 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		I have some very practical experience with our "law enforcement growth industry" in the states, I also attended Northwestern University School of Law when Larry Marshall got Rolando Cruz off on DNA evidence. Rolando wasn't all there to begin with and the police lied to build their case - basically they acted like scum. And According to Marshall that case was hardly isolated in that regard.

So yeah, I am fairly partial to the views of someone digging for truth in the DNA evidence trenches. And I know the system is screwed up almost beyond repair.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/case/display_profile.php?id=07

http://www.innocenceproject.org/index.php

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"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/27/2005 6:23:07 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		As i said in a previous post, my old boss at the Commission on Capital Cases had been a defense attorney; he told me in many cunties in Florida, when a murder occurs, the police drag in the local mental defective, feed him information and extract a "confession" which thereby seals his fate. i said this some time ago, and i doubt this practice is limited to Florida. As i also said, it was illuminating when, after the US Supreme Court outlawed the execution of mentally retarded people, Florida's state-paid psychiatrists found about 40% to 50% of all death row inmates were retarded.

Since no one believes the retarded are given to mayhem any more than people of average intelligence, this is a damning indeed.

i like that You are so interested in this topic, Chaingang, but i cannot help feeling You haven't read the whole thread. Comments for the most part have been reasoned and reflectivre, and well-informed. You may feel the system is beyond repair -- if by that You mean the death penalty should be outlawed altogether -- and many members would agree with You. i find myself in the middle; i heartially dislike what we have, but still feel in some cases -- such as Ted Bundy -- the death penalty is not unconstitutional.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/27/2005 6:24:50 PM >

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/27/2005 8:08:10 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Or you could just drive to Canada since they have the same policy of not granting extradition for capital cases. No passport required (until December 31, 2006) and no plane ticket needed.


Canda, France, or where ever. I would call Bull Shit on these countries that would refuse to hand over a cold blooded murderer if I couldn't give him the death penatly. I'd just tell the country "Oh so you want to keep a kill eh? Go right ahead and risk the lives of your countries citizens in such a selfish action."

It's interesting that the UN is going for the Death Penalty on Sadam in his upcoming trial. I've yet to do research on UN and European countries protest agasnt Saddam being exicuted, but if anyone has links, I would like to read them.

In any case, dose anyone here feel that Saddam shoudn't be exicuted for crimes against humanity?

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I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to Wolf1020)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: The Death Penalty in the US - 11/27/2005 8:26:30 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Millions for defense and not a penny of tribute.......

Life ain't changed, prostates did.

Ron

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 100
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