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Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 1:27:04 PM

Termyn8or

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Now that someone else has mentioned it, let me ask this, who has read it ?

If you have read it you know something, first of all if you disagree with Pierce's racist ideas, and could get through it, that is called an open mind. Or are you saying that you can't read anything you don't agree with ?

Thing is, about two thirds of the way through, the author, or through his character vicariously, came to a realization. That there were alot of people mixed, both White and Black blood. Seeing them culminated in a very tricky dilemma. They are partly your race and partly not. Kill them ? What.

I wouldn't characterize him as a crackpot. I don't agree with his doctrine. But it is his opinion. If you can't read the book because it hurts your delicate sensibilities, grow up. Sticks and stones remember ? It is that simple. Do you have to agree with everything you read ? Or is there like a forbidden list of material that you are not allowed to read for whatever reason. Who gives you that list, your preacher, your government or what ?

It is ridiculous to limit yourself. I want to hear more about Farrakan, even King and Jackson. I don't have to agree. If they write something I don't like it is not going to hurt me.

The only thing that could affect me is if my beliefs are not strong enough to withstand the dissent. Is that true of most people ? It would seem so, because when people call things a rag, and the authors crackpots, I believe they are on the denfense at the time.

I can read an article by someone who's view is diametrically opposed to mine. And I will take that viewpoint under consideration, if I didn't that would be ignorance. Learning is a cure for stupidity, but there is no cure for ignorance.

T

Post #: 1

RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 1:50:44 PM

slaveboyforyou

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I've read the whole book Term. In fact, I still have it. I read it right after the OKC bombing. I had never heard of it before then, but I wanted to see what the hype was about.

In my opinion, it's a silly book. It really is ridiculous. It's written at about the 5th grade reading level, and Pierce did that intentionally. He knew the kind of people that would be influenced by that book.

It starts off as really silly science fiction. Supposedly someone in the future (after the race war where the white man has taken over the world.) has found the diary of a soldier that fought in the race war. From the diary we learn that the ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government) has employed blacks to come take all our guns away! But never fear, some white soldiers have hidden some weapons and are fighting the evil Jewish commies.

The group surrounding Turner go through little adventures including; blowing up the FBI headquarters with a fuel-fertilizer bomb, killing two mixed race couples in a garage, and raiding some military installations. In the end, Turner's "unit" takes over Los Angeles. While pacifying the population of L.A.; they string up interracial couples, race traitors (anyone that does business with ZOG or the "mud" races), politicians, and celebrities from light poles all over the city. All the blacks are forcefully herded out of town eastward, and all the Jews or people of undetermined racial heritage are marched into ravines and machine gunned.

After pacifying L.A. and much of California; they get their hands on nuclear weapons. So, they nuke New York City, Washington D.C., much of the USSR, and Israel. Later on Turner is chosen for a suicide mission against ZOG, and he leaves one final diary entry. At the end of the book, this man from the future lays out the rest of what happened. Whites managed to exterminate all the mud people in the US, Europe, and Africa. East Asia was bombarded with NBC weapons and is now a wasteland inhabited by mutants!

Like I said, it's a silly book. It really is written for the lowest on the intelligence scale. But I encourage anyone to read it. If you're like me, you'll laugh your ass off. Oh, I also read his book Manhunter. It's also equally as stupid, and worth a read just for the laughs.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 4:03:26 PM

bipolarber

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I read it after an aquaintence of mine (Alan Berg, a Denver local radio talk show host) was gunned down by neo-nazis outside his home. The jerks they arrested for the murder cited the book as one of their "inspirations." So, I was trying to understand what kind of spiders these guys had in their brains.

Slaveboy's summation is pretty accurate... although after the OKC bombing, and the rise of the militia rabbles in the late 1990's, (black helicopter paranoia, and all that crap) and other crimes perpetrated by people who have read this POS, I really have a hard time finding the humor it it.

Again, as I've said before in other threads, basing your life on some fictional universe... especially one based on bigotry, intolerance, sexisim, violence, or written as part of a bar room bet... is really not a positive way to spend your life.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 4:27:08 PM

DesertRat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
...Like I said, it's a silly book. It really is written for the lowest on the intelligence scale. But I encourage anyone to read it. If you're like me, you'll laugh your ass off....

A most excellent review! I've read it too. In fact I have a copy in my personal library, sitting on the shelf right next to Mein Kampf. They're both pretty goofy but mainly I read stuff like that because I think it's good to know your enemy. I drop in on the neo-nazi websites occasionally for the same reasons.

"Nazis!! I hate those guys!!"--Indiana Jones

Bob

_____________________________

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It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 4

RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 5:16:59 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

"Nazis!! I hate those guys!!"--Indiana Jones

*swoon*

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 5:48:20 PM

Termyn8or

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" It really is written for the lowest on the intelligence scale. But I encourage anyone to read it." I have to have a chuckle about that, because you are proving my point. Everyone who has read it does not necessarily agree with it, but read it anyway.

SB, I do agree that Pierce wrote in a style that could be read by a fifth grader, and that it was intentional. He saw the failure if the schools, and when you write, you want somebody to read it.

You may label him as a nut or crackpot or something, but none of his actions in life even alluded to that. His organisation was not violent, and practically preached non violence. They told people not to get violent. If some did that is not the NA's problem. Unless you are for suing gun manufacturers and shit like that.

It is a part of history, the NA preached White pride. They never said to go out and do anything nasty to Black people, not once. Yes they did say some quite derogatory things about Black people, and the Jews as well. But if that is not within their rights, I will have to move, possibly to Antarctica.

They stressed that it is not wrong to be proud to be White, and asked why it is OK to be proud to be Black, but not OK to be proud to be White. Anyone care to tackle that one, nevermind, I already did I think in a post a few months ago.

Pierce was smart, but not smart enough to see the big picture. Thing is, Black people are here, that is how it is. But who wants to tell me how that is bad after knowing White trash for a long time. Trash is trash, color means nothing.

The NA puts their spin on everything of course, but just in a different direction. And one other thing, the Turner Diaries was written when he was in his twenties or thirties, a long time before he took over the NA.

If you REALLY have low blood prssure, read Hunter, by the same author. I haven't even read it yet, but another one from the same crackpot might be just as good.

Enough for now.

T

(in reply to DesertRat)

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 7:56:02 PM

Vendaval

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That would leave an empty city, devoid of life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
While pacifying the population of L.A.; they string up interracial couples, race traitors (anyone that does business with ZOG or the "mud" races), politicians, and celebrities from light poles all over the city. All the blacks are forcefully herded out of town eastward, and all the Jews or people of undetermined racial heritage are marched into ravines and machine gunned.

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(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 8:11:08 PM

Owner59

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I saw the title and somehow knew that someone would defend the book and the lunatic fringe that`s into this devil`s work.

The book is one thing,the people who use this book like a guide or take it seriously are the dangerous aspect.

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 8:13:03 PM

kittinSol

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Term... you have a pretty good mind... but I am left to ponder over how such a good mind can be sold to the crackpot theories you seem to succumb to.

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 8:19:48 PM

MasterKalif

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I have not read this book, but judging prematurely on some passages, I do not think its worth reading, as it is not an ideology but a fantasy...different it is if the were to describe the future of the United States, its institutions, install a system that was different with different aims, dissect the actual political system and how it could be better, etc...the above is just a silly novel.

(in reply to Vendaval)

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 8:33:52 PM

Owner59

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It`s hate propaganda,much like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

It`s an ugly aspect of humanity.If it didn`t exist,someone would make it up.

Silly?

Maybe.Only there`s these spooky people with more guns than hands to hold them,taking this shit as gospel.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/25/2008 8:38:52 PM >

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 8:36:48 PM

slvemike4u

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Term not a case of being afraid of reading or even of over sensitive sensibilities...it is simply this ...life is short..reading shit like this would leave less time to read some other worthy work by someone who just might have something relevant to say....The Turner Diaries does not meet that criteria...and would probably fall short of the "it's a good read" criteria too so why bother...

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 9:50:19 PM

bipolarber

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It is a fantasy... a racist fantasy.

Unfortunately, fantasy itself really has a great deal of power over people who have lost a lot of their ability to distinguish between what is something that can enrich your life, and what is just playing to your fears.

Look at how many people follow Star Trek, or Harry Potter or LOTR, like it's some kind of religion. Some of these fictions promote ideas that can be useful. But then you have the other side of things, fantasy that is out there to just rip you off, and fill your head with spiders. The Turner Diaries is one of these. It's not just out to entertain and inspire. No, it has an agenda ...to play aginst your fears an insecurities. Slaveboy is quite right in saying that the writing level of the book is deliberately kept simple. It's aimed at the undereducated, the folks who may have just lost their job, or been turned down for a loan, or whose life just hasn't gone the way they'd hoped. So, along comes this book, that whispers in their ear: THIS is why you aren't successful. It's meant to be a recruiting tool.

Scientology, Heavens gate, the Raelians... religion is filled with such muck too. As George Carlin put it, "religion is the gratest bullshit story ever told." Politics has it's own set of dark fairy tales that people have been misled by as well. (The Bell Curve, the aforementioned Mein Kamf, and most of the BS that the John Birch Society pumps out. BDSM is not immune either. Pick a sub culture, chances are there's someone out there trying to make a buck off of it by turning it into some kind of cultish train of thought.

"Fantasy is like a form of hypnotisim," a semi-famous science fiction author once told me at a convention. (I'll not mention his name, since I don't know if he'd appreciate showing up on a Google search of it, and having his fans end up on this site.) "the reader is sucked in, and you end up creating a sort of "trance" in their imaginations...and if you aren't careful, your writings will suddenly become someone elses marching orders. Only in this case, they'll be out there doing things far worse than acting like a chicken when the phone rings."

(in reply to slvemike4u)

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 9:58:40 PM

Leatherist

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Buying a copy and reading it would only encourage more of the same.

I will pass.

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 10:27:25 PM

DesFIP

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Why would I want to buy a book and give money to a man who promulgates my murder?
I'm a Jew. I have no intention of financially supporting someone who thinks I ought to be killed for the crime of being Jewish.

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 10:43:05 PM

Owner59

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The author isn`t bashful about his intentions.

Quite the terrorist.

I wonder how they`ve fared during the Bush years.

I remember Ashcroft wanted nothing to do with using gun sale records to hunt domestic terrorists.

Why was that?

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/25/2008 11:44:45 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

The author isn`t bashful about his intentions.

Quite the terrorist.

I wonder how they`ve fared during the Bush years.

I remember Ashcroft wanted nothing to do with using gun sale records to hunt domestic terrorists.

Why was that?

Actually Owner, the National Alliance hasn't fared very well. Pierce died a few years ago, and all of his followers started fighting over control of the group. Pierce was a kook, but he was smart. He got rich off of his books and off of his organization. He didn't have any heirs, so his closests aids began fighting over the organization's assets after his death. It split off into sub-groups, and that's very common amongst white supremacists. None of them get along, because they all have their own ideas about who should run things. It's always been that way. It's one reason why I've never taken these guys seriously. They are never going to accomplish their goals. They are a bunch of losers.

(in reply to Owner59)

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/26/2008 12:20:44 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
It's one reason why I've never taken these guys seriously. They are never going to accomplish their goals. They are a bunch of losers.

Losers? Definitely. Never accomplish their goals? How soon you forget.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/26/2008 12:35:49 AM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

Never accomplish their goals? How soon you forget.

No I haven't forgot. McVeigh did not start a race war. He didn't start a revolution against the Federal government. He committed a heinous crime, and he ended up with a needle in his arm. The militia and patriot movements lost members and supporters after that incident. McVeigh didn't accomplish anything. In fact, he caused more damage to the causes he supported than his enemies ever could have.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 7/26/2008 12:37:45 AM >

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RE: Turner diaries - 7/26/2008 1:04:36 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Never accomplish their goals? How soon you forget.

No I haven't forgot. McVeigh did not start a race war. He didn't start a revolution against the Federal government. He committed a heinous crime, and he ended up with a needle in his arm. The militia and patriot movements lost members and supporters after that incident. McVeigh didn't accomplish anything. In fact, he caused more damage to the causes he supported than his enemies ever could have.

The other major casualty was alot of legitimate (ie pro constitutional) militias and patriot movements got dragged into the same mud as the extremist fringe groups. I don't even want to think about the various 4th Amendment violations that occured to sieze the names of members, check for legal ownership of firearms, and verify there were no "illegal activist" types involved.

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