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Worthless - 7/28/2004 8:16:49 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		"Worthless lump of dog shit", she said. "That is what my master has decided to call me, and that is what I am". I found myself profoundly saddened just reading it. I can honestly say that I have never even thought that about a slave, much less said it. I can say without hesitation that if I ever had thought something like that, it would have been shortly before the door slammed behind the slave. If words like that are meant, why would a slave be kept? If words like that aren't meant, and it is understood between the master and the slave that they aren't meant, why would they have any effect on the listener at all?

My general impression of folks who speak to others in this way is that it is to salve a wanting self-image by degrading those around them. Is that why the "worthless lump of dog shit" is kept? To make the man feel better about himself? Does the "worthless lump of dog shit" stay because that is what she actually thinks about herself?

Don't get me wrong, I have been known to be a no-nonsense master that accepts precious little bullshit from a slave, and will remind them of their place in no uncertain terms, but, in terms, I'd like to think, that I have chosen carefully to enhance self-esteem, not destroy it. As I have said before, I think it is important for the wise owner of a slave to enhance the value of his property.

I'm probably going to get some grief here about not dissing someone else's "kink" but I'm having a hard time not seeing the scenario above as simply co-dependant and dysfunctional. I'd love to hear why it isn't.

Take care of yourselves.

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/28/2004 12:49:48 PM >
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 8:26:48 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		When i had an online dom he verbally degraded me frequently calling me a worthless slut, bitch, etc. and making me call myself worthelss also. I had no problem with it. The two r/l doms that i have had have never done that, so i have never experienced it face to face. I know hubby would never degrade me like that, here's where i think love gets in the way. Personally i would have no problem with it in a role playing situation. Being degraded like that on a daily basis would cause me a problem.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to Leonidas)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 8:34:06 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Humiliation is a kink
Both in the Giving and Recieving end.

The way sum say nice things to people and it makes them feel good
others say not so nice things to gain the same feelings. We are not all
wired the same way.

I enjoy Humiliation and it does not mean I do not care any less for what
I do then You whom might say sumthing in a positivie life. It is simply
a alternating way of expression which makes the person feel good.
There are many as well whom enjoy degragation and humiliation on
the recieving end. I would not expect those whom do not understand
the need or desire to do such if it is not a kink which turns You on but
it does many other people. JMO

I do not feel whole if I cannot humiliate in sum kind of way and this is just
like sumone whom doesent feel whole till they have said sumthing nice to sumone.
My kink is not Your kink but My kink has equal value as Yours.
We are Living Alternate Lifestyles not that which is * normal*

(in reply to proudsub)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 8:40:09 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		OK, I figured I'd hear the "your kink isn't my kink" thing. Just a simple question though. If you called someone a "worthless lump of dog shit" to satisfy your "kink" would you mean it, or is it just playing? If you could tell by the response that you got from the person that you said it to that they thought you meant it, would you call "time out" and explain that you were only playing? One more thing, would you engage in this kind of play with someone who, in your estimation, really did think that they were a "worthless lump of dog shit"?

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/28/2004 8:44:30 AM >

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 8:46:45 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		hmmm interesting thought

Would You mean it when
You whiped a slave and
then said I adore You or
would they think this also
not true because You had
just physically hit them??

Same pretense in the mental thoughts here....

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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 8:58:09 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		"You have just been whipped because I found you less than pleasing, and because I know you to be capable of better. As of this moment it is forgotten. I will not think of it again".

"Thank you master for seeing fit to correct this slave"

Goes something like that. I absolutely meant the whipping. What I did not intend was to degrade the slave. If I whipped the slave, the meaning is that I do happen to think highly of her. If I didn't, I probably wouldn't bother.

I don't think it's the same premise at all.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 8:58:47 AM   
cheeba0228


Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline 		I find that in the heat of the moment to be called and giving such names is normal even exciting. That being said it is a very fine thin line that is walked as well. I would think it would take quite a great deal to call a sub or slave of mine worthless piece of dog shit. (After all I have no idea what dog shit is worth these days anyways.) But to call someone that and assign them that as a regular name i think is very uncalled for. if you were called that and assigned that as a name to be used everyday then i think your Master would need more training thean you do. You=Normal Him=Not so much.

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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 9:03:16 AM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline 		I have had submissives ask me to verbally humiliate them and call them obscene names. I explain that is a hard limit for me. Names like slut & greedy can be laughed off, but stupid, worthless, fat, beanpole, needledick, turd are hard limits. To me, it is a reflection on me if I choose to have a worthless piece of shit for a sub. I would rather have a sub I can call treasure and pet, or imp or scallywag.

Some people need to feel worthless, why is a mystery to me because I have spent my life trying to make the people I come into contact with see the beauty they possess. It is not just a hard limit for me, but beyond my abilities to make a person feel worthless, it would do damage to my own psyche to try.

However each to their own, but after two marriages which I came out of feeling old, fat, ugly and unloveable, I won't visit the same wounds on anyone else.

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 9:19:27 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		ahhhhh but see You whip for punishment
I whip for pleasure.
I also humiliate for pleasure.

BIG DIFFERANCE

(in reply to LadyShoshin)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 9:25:35 AM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I guess there are subs/slaves out there who get off on being humiliated in this manner. I have done my share of humiliation, but I would never say this to a slave of mine. Although words as slut, whore, bitch seem to get my slave excited, she knows that she is adored by me. I don't think I would be involved with someone who considered themselves worthless.

(in reply to Leonidas)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 9:32:07 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		nor would I Estring and I make sure that not only My self but those around Me know they are of value. As I said My kink is not YOurs but it is none the less of the same value. One Persons trash is anothers Treasure!

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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 9:32:20 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Can't comment much about whore and bitch. Among Goreans, slut is a term of endearment. Simply means a woman whose body has been trained to be highly sexually charged. One who can't help but be sexually aroused by a strong masculine presence. As far as we are concerned, that is a good thing. I guess context is everything.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Estring)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 9:34:06 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		oh and by the way
what makes You feel that
bitch whore and dog shit
are any different? LOL
any word that is held in
an derogitory manner by
another hurts in the same
fashion be it fucker or
prettyboy sum take just
as much offence to be called
sumthing positive as well.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 9:36:26 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Does this mean Leonidas
that all Masters can be
called slut as well because
They also hold much the
same items that You just
discribed above as well.
~smiles~ and not only
that but would they take
it as a pet name or derogitory?
hmmmmmm?

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 9:41:35 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		My version of Your words would read:

slut is a term of endearment. Simply means a man whose body has been trained to be highly sexually charged. One who can't help but be sexually aroused by a strong feminine presence. As far as we are concerned, that is a good thing. I guess context is everything

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 9:42:10 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		I suppose that you can call anyone anything. Among Goreans, slut means something very specific, and is applied exclusively to female slaves. I shouldn't have to tell you this. Aren't you third generation Gorean?

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 10:09:58 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		well My point here is that the word slut is not
just used in GOR as a word of fondness.
that would be the positive end of it but it is
also used as a word of degragation and
punishment or a state of worthlessness because
of the slaves badness and not its goodness.
and to tell Me anything would be the place of
My Mate and FC Grey Dragon.

Here is Your sample of what I speak so You understand and
do not put out that in GOR the word slut is used only for a
word of fondness this would not be the facts as You stated.

"Is Master angry with the slave?" she asked.
He smiled. He cracked the whip once, viciously. She drew back, fearfully.
"Use it on her well, Borton, my friend," said Philebus. "It is well deserved by any slut and perhaps particularly so by one such as she. Did she not part her silk without permission? Did she not put herself to the dirt before you, unbidden? Did she not speak at least once without permission, either implicit or explicit?"
---Vagabonds of Gor, 1:45-46

I would not say that these words or the word of slut was applyed for fondness here, and I can show many others of just such words but then the point would be kind of lost here........... JMO
but I was relating My thoughts in a more BDSM fashion but anytime You desire to discuss GOR phylosiphy I am much abildging to as well Free Man. And I am a Third Generation BDSMer and Poly Lifestyler Ive only been Gorean for 27 years, 16 of those Online If You desire to make a comment ment to be derogitory towards Me I would in the least expect You to get Your facts straight befor mentioning them JMO ~smiles~

(in reply to Leonidas)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 10:17:06 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		In the quote that you used, not that Goreans are characters from the novels or anything, "slut" is just used as shorthand for "female slave". One who is obviously a "slut" in Gorean parlance, having "parted her silk" and thrown herself to the dirt before the man without him commanding it. Not derrogatory, just a statment of fact.

Responding to you on here is always an adventure, and usually runs the risk of going way off topic, Dread. I think I'll just say good day to you at this point.

Leonidas

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 10:20:04 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		You stated that You were saddened by hearing a slave called
dog shit

how does this sentance make You feel Man of GOR?

“On this world I had not been permitted footwear. It is said that it need not be wasted on animals. It is also said that this helps us to understand that we are animals. It also serves nicely to contrast us with our betters, free women.”
~Witness of Gor, page 124 & 125~

Would this sentance not say that slaves are dogs?? Hence could not the
words dogshit be used the same as slut towards a animal in a manner of
affection as well? I mean lets get deep here and think a moment on
Your words and the words of GOR.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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RE: Worthless - 7/28/2004 10:22:58 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Oh Leonidas
I am no where near off topic and
have hit the nail on the head Id say.

~smiles~

I will take it as My point being made
You have a great day too!!

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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