RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (Full Version)

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porcelain26 -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/10/2008 11:37:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee

i would assume you have some idea of whom you are interacting with. if that doesnt give you some clue to what you are asking for and if you can handle it. ya might best think twice about it. or does personal responsiblity not count for anything?



Personal responsibility goes both ways. I'm not for a second saying the submissives who are new to playing with this guy and submitting to this are in any way blameless; of course they should know better. But unfortunately, many times they don't. Many new submissives are run away with awe in the presence of a dominant who seems intelligent and experienced and they are willing to do just about anything in order to please him. Hence the need for personal responsibility on the part of the dominant. It would be lovely if he had the presence of mind and self-restraint to avoid terrifying and possibly traumatizing someone in order to 'test' their submission. But again, unfortunately this isn't always the case.

I'm not against a mind fuck; I enjoy them immensely. But from someone I trust deeply, not someone I'm trusting for the first, or even second scene.




ResidentSadist -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 12:10:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain26
quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee
i would assume you have some idea of whom you are interacting with. if that doesnt give you some clue to what you are asking for and if you can handle it. ya might best think twice about it. or does personal responsiblity not count for anything?

Personal responsibility goes both ways. I'm not for a second saying the submissives who are new to playing with this guy and submitting to this are in any way blameless; of course they should know better. But unfortunately, many times they don't. Many new submissives are run away with awe in the presence of a dominant who seems intelligent and experienced and they are willing to do just about anything in order to please him. Hence the need for personal responsibility on the part of the dominant. It would be lovely if he had the presence of mind and self-restraint to avoid terrifying and possibly traumatizing someone in order to 'test' their submission. But again, unfortunately this isn't always the case.

I'm not against a mind fuck; I enjoy them immensely. But from someone I trust deeply, not someone I'm trusting for the first, or even second scene.

...yes, now add handsome, wealthy and sexy and you have all the more reason a female would lie and say she is his relationship style when they aren’t.  If only all the women that bait me or him clamming to be deeply submissive really were. 

 
Hence my earlier reply, "He was a handsome man and sometimes… well, a lot of times actually, girls tell handsome guys they are submissive when they truly aren’t in order to try and get the cock or land a wealthy man.  So this new date test meant either you were strong enough and twisted enough to swim with the sharks (him/us) or you went home."
 
If someone is who they say they are they won’t be “traumatized” because these are in familiar waters.  If they really are a hardcore BDSM edge playing masochistic slave, odds are this isn’t the first test of faith, the first mind fuck or the first time they stared injury in the face.  Do people think we kidnap fluffy lil princess subs and hang them over swords against their will?
 
It is not his fault or his responsibility that some females lie to manipulate and lie about who they are.  For people to read this thread reply like he fucking kidnapped people is just projecting their own fucked up concept of life and motives into a very classic, tried and true BDSM scene. 

I have seen very few other mind fuck stories posted… from all these people in this thread, no one will share a mind fuck?  I could spend days talking about all the mind fucks that happen at the local dungeon much less my own.




porcelain26 -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 12:37:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

If someone is who they say they are they won’t be “traumatized” because these are in familiar waters.  If they really are a hardcore BDSM edge playing masochistic slave, odds are this isn’t the first test of faith, the first mind fuck or the first time they stared injury in the face.  Do people think we kidnap fluffy lil princess subs and hang them over swords against their will?
 
It is not his fault or his responsibility that some females lie to manipulate and lie about who they are.  For people to read this thread reply like he fucking kidnapped people is just projecting their own fucked up concept of life and motives into a very classic, tried and true BDSM scene. 



So someone who is a "hardcore BDSM edge playing masochistic slave" should be more than willing to be mind fucked in this manner the first time she plays with a new dominant? Come on, now. Surely you're not that narrow minded? And while it might not be his fault that a girl is lying about her level of submissiveness or masochism, it IS his fault if he knowingly plays with someone whom he thinks is lying to him about it. I know very few experienced dominants who don't have really good 'bullshit radar', and if his is going off and he's simply doing this to point out that she lied, that goes back to my original comment about this not being a mind fuck at all, but rather a cruel and tactless joke done simply to prove "Big me, little you".

And no, I'm not suggesting that anyone has been kidnapped, nor am I suggesting that the scene was explicitly nonconsensual, as I believe most people understand that for a mind fuck to be effective, there is a certain level of 'nonconsent' (for lack of a better term) involved.  My point is this went from "Guess what my buddy did, how cool is that?" to "He gets a lot of girls after him cuz he's hot and has cash, so this is how he weeds 'em out." to "Well, it's really a test to see if she's a true submissive or not." to "Hey, it's not our fault if you're not ready to play with the big boys" to "If you wouldn't do anything like this then you have no right to comment." to "If you don't think this is agreat scene then you're not a real player."

In my original response, I stated that if my Owner did something like this to me, while it might scare the piss out of me, I would probably be all over him with lust once the rush had slowed down, but I would NOT like someone to do this to me whom I had just started playing with. Almost everyone who has disagreed with this scenario has said the same thing; that it's simply not something they would want anyone to do to them right off the bat.

We ALL have a responsibility to be honest. We ALL know that not everyone is. The girls who flat out lie to your friend and say "Oh hell yeah, tie me above a sword and then drop my ass!" and freak out, are responsible for their own trauma when he does it and they hate it. But there is nothing honest about him taking a submissive girl who is nervous and simply trying to please and impress him, whom he has only just started playing with, and pulling this lil trick on them simply to 'test' them. That isn't an experienced dominant, it's a dangerous one.




Vicariously -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 12:38:40 AM)

I have a Mind fuck story.. A guy I know of posted something outrageous on a forum and now is trying to defend it when he has no real leg to stand on. It was almost comical as he kept grabbing for explanations as to why he had a valid argument. He recalled a story from the back of his mind and now his reputation is truly fucked. AWESOME "MIND FUCK".              
Disclaimer: any similarities to actual events or persons is coincidental.  [sm=goodnight.gif]   




ResidentSadist -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 1:45:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vicariously
I have a Mind fuck story.. A guy I know of posted something outrageous on a forum and now is trying to defend it when he has no real leg to stand on. It was almost comical as he kept grabbing for explanations as to why he had a valid argument. He recalled a story from the back of his mind and now his reputation is truly fucked. AWESOME "MIND FUCK".              
Disclaimer: any similarities to actual events or persons is coincidental.  [sm=goodnight.gif]   

Outrageous… hmmm, how so?  As far as defend goes, I’m not sure what is to defend or how you see that? 




MizSexyVixen -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 2:39:18 AM)

Speaking from the veiwpoint of someone who establishes relationships with submissives for a living, trust should be built and inspired -- not tested. This type of trust "test" early on in a relationship is abusive. Just my never very humble opinion.





RCdc -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 3:10:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Yes, a mind fuck is a great way to test the depth and sincerity of someone’s submission and compatibility whether it is in the beginning of a relationship or years down the road.  Yes, I would not get along with anyone that couldn’t “submit” to the degree required to handle a mind fuck. 

Using the metaphor at hand, I would not own or swim with a guppies.  Guppies should swim with guppies, sharks with sharks.  It’s all about compatibility.  Birds of a feather and all you know.


As a mind fuck, I find it pretty boring RS - I can't apologise for that.  The falling part might rock but the rest is pretty lame.  I could quite easily play it through, but would be uninterested because if it was used as a test - then for me, there is no control there, no dominance.  It would easily weed that man out as a non potential dominant for me(and even a pretty lame top frankly).  And I think that is the issue as people are seeing it.  That this particular scene doesn't 'test submission' - compatability? Yes, I can see that it can work that out.  But not submission, because it is a mind fuck and pretend.  It's fantasy.  It might show how good a bottom someone might play out, but not their submission.  Maybe it's just the understanding of different words people have, but being a slave or submissive isn't about how great or hard you play.  It might show you can both play in the same way and are of the same mindset however.
 
the.dark.




gypsygrl -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 4:14:52 AM)

quote:

My point is this went from "Guess what my buddy did, how cool is that?" to "He gets a lot of girls after him cuz he's hot and has cash, so this is how he weeds 'em out." to "Well, it's really a test to see if she's a true submissive or not." to "Hey, it's not our fault if you're not ready to play with the big boys" to "If you wouldn't do anything like this then you have no right to comment." to "If you don't think this is agreat scene then you're not a real player."


Yeah, there's a lot of back peddling here.  Of course, very few people posting actually addressed the op with stories of their own.  Personally, I've never had time for this kind of involved play.  It's pretty resource intensive. 

I do remember having a strong reaction to a kidnapping scene described to me by a big city d I had visited once.  It was a three day scene, and I was telling a friend of mine about it.  He was vanilla, and freaking out about the kidnapping part.  I was freaking out about the three day part with comments like, "good god, some people have way too much time on on their hands" and "who the hell has three days to waste pretending to be kidnapped?"  My friend started laughing at me, convinced I had missed the point.

I dunno.




GreedyTop -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 4:58:50 AM)

~FR~

once again.. reminder: FIRST PLAY DATE, not total stranger. And the guy in question didn't silently go about stringing her up.. he talked to her as he was going along, telling her what he was doing. The only part he DID NOT tell her was about the mind fuck.. if he'd told her that, then it wouldnt have been a mind fuck...




NeedingMore220 -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 5:28:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Yes, a mind fuck is a great way to test the depth and sincerity of someone’s submission and compatibility whether it is in the beginning of a relationship or years down the road.  Yes, I would not get along with anyone that couldn’t “submit” to the degree required to handle a mind fuck. 

Using the metaphor at hand, I would not own or swim with a guppies.  Guppies should swim with guppies, sharks with sharks.  It’s all about compatibility.  Birds of a feather and all you know.


I agree that a mind fuck is a great way to test and enjoy the depth of your partner's submission down the road, once other compability has been established.  For a mind fuck to truly affect me, I have to trust the one who is in control.  To really believe he would do what he seemingly intends to do.  That trust takes time to build. 

And yes, it most definitely is about compatibility.  Although someone may not have the same interests as I do, however, I don't call them stupid or frail or even guppies, for that matter. 

As for my favorite mind fucks ... I'm afraid they would bore a shark such as yourself.  They're nothing the gang could watch and cheer and slap him on the back for.  But they have been deep and abiding and amazing within my relationship. 




LittleWench -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 5:29:44 AM)

quote:

Hence my earlier reply, "He was a handsome man and sometimes… well, a lot of times actually, girls tell handsome guys they are submissive when they truly aren’t in order to try and get the cock or land a wealthy man. So this new date test meant either you were strong enough and twisted enough to swim with the sharks (him/us) or you went home."


There are gold diggers in every flavour of life, from vanilla through to kink.  Men and women who use sex as power, to secure relationships, for fame or fortune, either through overt dominant displays of sexuality or through "playing at being submissive". 

What makes you think that women who are into this style of extreme edge play are exempt from being manipulative enough to want to chase a man for his looks, money, cock etc.

If you think this is an effective filter to weed out the gold diggers you are sadly mistaken, you are just making sure that the ones you do find are adrenaline junkies who share the same kink. 




IrishMist -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 5:31:23 AM)

quote:

Yes, a mind fuck is a great way to test the depth and sincerity of someone’s submission and compatibility whether it is in the beginning of a relationship or years down the road.  Yes, I would not get along with anyone that couldn’t “submit” to the degree required to handle a mind fuck. 

Using the metaphor at hand, I would not own or swim with a guppies.  Guppies should swim with guppies, sharks with sharks.  It’s all about compatibility.  Birds of a feather and all you know.

Hell, I have had loaded and cocked guns shoved down my throat; had my throat and stomach 'nicked' with a blade...all in the name of a good mind fuck...and I can seriously say that if someone was to do this to me...they would be going home in a body bag.

This is not a 'test of submission' and quite frankly, I am a bit disappointed to hear you call it such...I thought you were above such immaturity. All this kind of shit is is a man, trying to play at being a dominant, showing off for his friends how he can get a girl to do what he wants by tying her up.

A waste of fucking intelligence on all sides.




RCdc -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 5:47:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

~FR~

once again.. reminder: FIRST PLAY DATE, not total stranger. And the guy in question didn't silently go about stringing her up.. he talked to her as he was going along, telling her what he was doing. The only part he DID NOT tell her was about the mind fuck.. if he'd told her that, then it wouldnt have been a mind fuck...



Hey GT... smoochies and love as always.
I got the whole 'first play date' bit.  I personally don't have any issues with the scene in itself and I am making the assumption that they had discussed that mindfucks were ok to begin with, just that it wasn't informed that this particular scene was a mind fuck itself. Which is all cool.  But what has me is that it'ssupposedly a submission 'test'.  I don't see how submission can be based on a play scene - bottoming yeah, but not submission in itself.  The scene itself aside, a person using a fantasy (mind fuck)to make a basis on domination or submission just seems pretty bizzaro for me personally.  Compatability and trust building, yeah I get that - but not submission or domination.  I just find it really weak on domination personally and the lack of imagination would bore me.  I guess RS would be feeling a bit fucked off by now with the negative feedback he is getting, but its understandable give that people are seeing 'negative testing' instead of 'positive trial', which in a sense I see this more as a case of, I would like to know his thoughts on why its submission (to him) and not bottoming, which sofar he hasn't answered.  I can see people getting equally fucked off as well as the whole 'well there are sharks and guppies' crap being brought into the discussion - both 'sides' aren't assisting the discussion.
 
the.dark.




LittleWench -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 5:51:50 AM)

quote:

If someone is who they say they are they won’t be “traumatized” because these are in familiar waters. If they really are a hardcore BDSM edge playing masochistic slave, odds are this isn’t the first test of faith, the first mind fuck or the first time they stared injury in the face. Do people think we kidnap fluffy lil princess subs and hang them over swords against their will?


By your own standards then this is no test at all.  Any sub who is used to this sort of play won't be impressed, nor suprised.  He told her step by step what he was doing.  I am going to suspend you.... I am putting this blade under your belly.... just let me adjust this rope.... it doesn't take a genius to figure out what his next move was going to be, and only an idiot would believe that he would actually go through impaling her, only an idiot would believe that he didn't have some kind of switch/backup to ensure her safety. 

Simply uncreative and totally unchallenging.  Honestly, I want my Dom to be smarter than I am, not come up with some lame vegas style theatrics and expect me to either feel fear or fucked... and if that was the best mind fuck he could come up with, I wouldn't expect a grand performance in the bedroom.




GreedyTop -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 6:00:53 AM)

*smooches the gorgeous dark and hugs to Darcy too*

I think that perhaps, if RS had phrased it as "a test of faith' rather than submission it wouldn't have stuck in the craw so much.

Mindfuck story:

a guy here I used to play with loves mindfucks.  he's good at them. at least with me he is,..LOL 

We were in the bedroom.. he'd just finished caning the hell outta my ass and told me to lay still. He got his gun and a box of ammo.  he had me watch as he loaded the clip. he ordered me to watch, as he slid the weapon inside me. He then put his hand around my throat, and proceeded to fuck me with the gun, the whole time telling me how easy it would be to dispose of my body.. after all, we're in Florida.. all kinds of remote swamps, where gators could dispose of the pieces.
I was scared like I have never been before..
but I had an orgasm like NEVER before or since..

I still have the bullet that was chambered...

*puddle*

(and before anyone goes off about how unsafe, etc etc etc.. yeah, I know.. save your fingers, don't bother..)




RCdc -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 6:06:50 AM)

Now yeah, see that is a mind fuck for me.
That is what I am trying to work out from RS - if it was really a 'test' or just as you say, a test of faith - to me, that's all a trust and bonding issue whioch makes more sense that 'test of submission'.  Like you said, and I said before, maybe it's just a misunderstanding or words.  But I would appriciate it if RS could clear that up.
 
the.dark.




GreedyTop -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 6:10:57 AM)

*adores thedark*

I love that you can be so objective.. :)




christine1 -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 6:14:54 AM)

i'll just say GT, "thud"  in the most major of ways.  (i actually just asked Master a few weeks ago if we can get his gun out the next time i'm there!)




GreedyTop -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 6:16:39 AM)

Christine..I cant even begin to express how HAWT it was.. ;) I was thinking of getting a small shadowbox to put the bullet in ... *grin*




mistoferin -> RE: -=Damocles mind fuck=- (8/11/2008 6:21:19 AM)

I wonder if your friend's stunts such as the one you described might not be the very reason why the buddies in your BDSM gang can always look forward to him getting a new girl. His "test of submission" doesn't sound like it has caught him an actual partner for the long term.

As I said before, as far as mind fucks go I would see this as pretty tame. The ONLY part of this whole scenario that seems edgy to me is that the players aren't really known to each other....and that fact speaks to me in a way that says something about the arrogance of your friend and the mental state of a submissive who would put herself in a dangerous position, risking life and limb....not because she trusts the person she is with, not because she is deeply devoted to him....but because she wants to prove what a shark she is.

You asked for mind fucks and I will give you one. It's not a stunt or a slight of hand trick though, so maybe you will find it boring. I have refrained from posting anything about it because I took some risks that I DON'T want anyone who is new to read and think that it's something that they have to do in order to be considered a "real" submissive. It isn't something that I would recommend for anyone who doesn't absolutely know themself and trust in their own judgment. This isn't my first rodeo and I absolutely understood the risks I was taking. My goal in taking them was also not about PROVING anything to anyone. It was however, my very first scene with the man who now calls me his.

I met a man right here on CollarMe who I started to swap a few e-mails with. Although we were both unpartnered at the time our goal wasn't about becoming relationship partners...or even play partners for that matter. He was simply a very interesting person and thought the same of me and we decided to get to know each other better. He'd seen and done so many things, been all over the world and had many unique experiences. He was fascinating to have a conversation with.

Coincidentally during the time we were exploring our budding friendship I had some very serious life altering changes occur. The loss of a very dear friend, several loved ones who were dealing with REALLY major medical issues who were depending on me and a very hard financial hit to name just a few of the issues I was trying to manage all at once. I was working myself into the ground and also trying to be everything to everyone who needed me. I am normally an extremely strong person and have never really done anything more than momentarily stumble in life, always having the ability to pick myself back up, dust myself off and move on. But I found myself in an odd position. For the very first time in my life it felt as though the weight of the burden was going to crush me. I felt like I was going to completely lose it and would end up being good to no one...a risk that I could not take with so many who desperately needed me to be their rock. It hit me that what I needed to do was to do exactly that....fall apart completely. Wipe the slate clean and start fresh.

So I confided how I felt in my friend and I asked for his help. I asked him to provide an environment that would trigger such a collapse...away from all of those who were dependent...and an environment that provided me some time to pull it all together again. I wanted a scene that would annhilate me both mentally and physically. A scene like I'd never experienced. I wanted to be pushed to breaking and beyond.

Over time I had gotten to know my friend quite well. I knew that he had been and could go to places that I could only go to in my darkest of nightmares...and beyond what I could even imagine. He is a military man, trained in anti terrorist tactics. He is also a serious sadist with a long history of experience. To add to that he has a medical degree and understands the workings of the body very well. While those things assured me that I was making a good choice in my selection, they also struck a chord of terror in me.

We began to meet and talk in great detail. There was not an area of my mind that he didn't want to explore, not an area of my life that he didn't want to know about. For the next several months there were hundreds of hours of conversation, thousands of questions I had to answer. Many subjects came up...many possibilities of what might be included in this scene. Things that had never even dawned upon my wildest imagination. Those several months turned into a mindfuck in itself, my mind cueing into some of those horrifying possibilities and running with it. So many moments of serious doubt. Doubt that I could indeed go through with this. Doubt that if I did go through with it that I could ever recover from it. But we continued to move forward and I allowed him the total control to guide me to where he felt I needed to go to accomplish my goal. I gave into his expertise and put myself figuratively in his hands.

The day of the scene I was nearly crazed with fear. I don't even know now looking back on it how I kept my feet moving forward to get there. I had not been able to sleep or eat properly in the days leading up to it. I knew that put me at a disadvantage going in. I could not shut my head off long enough to give me a moment's break. But somehow I managed to get there. To a location that I knew provided me no safety net, no possibility of rescue...no way out. I agreed that this scene was entirely in his hands. There were no limits, no words that would stop the action. I had nothing to hold onto except my trust. Trust in my choice. Trust in the man I had come to know.

The scene itself lasted 8 days. I'm not going to go into a lot of the details because many of them were far too personal to post in this space. We first took an hour or so to just connect. Then he had me help him prepare for the scene. He told me to begin laying out implements. I have never seen so many items of torture in one place, not even in the most well stocked of dungeons. There were items I had never seen, didn't even know what they were...but their potential use and purpose was terrifying clear. Every instinct of self preservation that I have was screaming at a level that was deafening and had to be overridden. Almost as though I were on auto pilot I continued to lay things out. How on earth would I ever endure what was to come???

The first entire day and night of the scene was interrogation. I've done interrogation before....but never like this. This man was well trained at this. There was absolutely nothing I could do right...no right answer to any question. It didn't take long before he had my mind flailing helplessly. There was anger, there was intimidation, there was humiliation, there was absolute degradation, there was pain, pressure....panic. There were needles, there were knives, there was electricity at unbelievably painful levels. There were medical instruments. There were violent outbursts that were followed by what I prayed was mercy...only to find out that I was being giving false hope of any such thing. One moment he was a monster like I'd never encountered, pure evil...and the next he was tender. I'd reach out to suck in that tenderness only to find it yanked away and replaced with mocking and more pain, more humiliation, more degradation. Ever increasing pressure, ever increasing pain. I grew weary and my mind raced. Music so loud it was painful, complete darkness followed by light so bright it felt like it was stabbing through me. Times that seemed like they lasted forever with no air to breathe. Freezing cold and burning. My body crumpled in a heap yanked and forced back to the here and now to withstand the next round of assault. Moments that I questioned all of the choices that I had made leading up to this. Moments that I thought death was impending and imminent. My mind began to collapse in on itself. Begging, pleading, crying, screaming, drooling, vomiting, bleeding. There was no subspace to be found anywhere...he wouldn't let it happen. I ran the same line over and over and over in my head...the only thing I had left to cling to...."I trust you"...."I trust you". Spiraling to a place where there were no thoughts I could make any sense of. Madness....shear and utter madness. A level that I thought I would likely never recover from. Certainty that I would spend the rest of my days locked away in a padded cell....IF I survived. I could no longer respond. Nothing coherent came from my mouth or went through my mind. Every thought failed or betrayed me.

And that was only Day 1. I had 7 more to make it through. Each bringing new, difficult and painful experiences. The man I had entrusted myself to vascillating between caretaker and monster.

He brought me through it and pulled me out on the other side clean and renewed. He carefully helped me to pick up and put back together the pieces and shards I became during those days. I didn't know what the outcome of that scene would be for "us". I didn't know if I would still consider him friend or if I would push him away and never want to see his face again. What I really wasn't expecting was the outcome that happened. I found that I came out of the experience 100% owned, whether that was our intention or not. I found that there was an unshakable bond that was created, a trust that I could never begin to question.

So mindfuck?....yeah, that was a pretty serious mindfuck. He wasn't testing my submission. I wasn't trying to prove that I am a "heavy player" that could swim with the sharks. So maybe that makes me not "real" in your eyes. But as far as mindfucks go I'd say that the scene had a much greater impact than a momentary "Oh shit" ever could have...and likely told us more about each other and our compatibility than any blind faith scene done by a couple of strangers who were out to prove how sadistic or slavely they are.








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