Fake Irish

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slaveboyforyou -> Fake Irish (8/12/2008 5:19:18 PM)
My entire life, I've been meeting folks that claim they're Irish. I live in the South, and I have a degree in history. So I know a little bit about the settlement patterns of people. I'm Scots-Irish, otherwise known as Ulster Scot. I hear my neighbors call themsleves Irish, and it just irritates me. If your family came from the South or Appalachia, than you're not Irish. I just don't understand this urge to latch on to a culture you're not a part of. My ancestors were Scots that moved to Ulster, than moved to America. We are not Irish, we are Scots-Irish. I just don't get this rush to a member of a minority. My ancestors have been here since the 1700's, and we were the most vocal critics of British rule. Why do we feel the need to include ourselves amongst the Irish Catholics?

Alumbrado -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 5:27:20 PM)
The same reason people who are possibly 1/100th Native American proclaim themselves part of 'the Rez', and 10th generation New York City dwellers suddenly decide they were born to be masters of the bluegrass banjo or ragtime guitar, I guess. A willing suspension of disbelief can be fun.

Briena -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 5:36:52 PM)
Having a degree in history doesnt make you an expert on geneology. My husband is from Alabama, has red hair, green eyes, and a VERY Irish last name does that mean he isnt Irish because he is from the south? Where someones family ended up has nothing to do with their genes. Unless you can trace their blood lines back to whatever country that they claim they are originally from you cant say anything about them. My husbands family sounds like the characters from king of the hill, but they are still irish. What gives you the right to say anything about anyone elses heritage? Maybe your neighbors have irish blood in them, who are you to say that they dont? Maybe they are 1/2 Irish and 1/2 mutt? Like me Im half Native American and 1/2 European, INCLUDING irish, scottish, polish, german, and czech... Maybe to make it easier they are stating what they are most of. People claim their heritage because thats their way of belonging to their ancestors. Everyone wants to belong to something that makes them THEM. They want to say where their family came from, where they started out. It has nothing to do with wanting to claim a specific type of group, it has to do with people wanting to know their own personal family history. In all honesty I think you are kind of arrogant to sit there and talk about someone elses blood lines knowing nothing of their family history. Then to say that if someone is from the south that makes them NOT something... Well thats just absured. I feel sorry for your neighbors since you seem to pass judgment on them with no background on what you are claiming.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 5:40:50 PM)
Most are scots-irish, some are irish, few are scot, many are mixed with Cherokee. The migration of my family started in New England and then on down the Appalachians, where many are now settled from NC all the way down into Alabama. My Mom was born in a town that had a population of 47, that is how deep woods many of my family are. When she had our geneology chart done it was interesting that the two families that married, has kept ties in some form since immigrating from Ireland. I am German, French, Irish, Cherokee, with the majority being German. I believe that many claim Irish because that is what they were told growing up. What does it matter anyway, I don't believe most would do it to be deceitful? "Prior to the 20th century, some parts Appalachia were geographically isolated from the rest of the country; much of the region, though, had been connected through the coming of the pioneering roads, early iron, timber and coal speculations and ventures, and the railroads. As a result, many pioneers stayed in the region and preserved the culture of their ancestors (most of them Scots-Irish, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, German, and English), who settled the region in the 18th century. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou My entire life, I've been meeting folks that claim they're Irish. I live in the South, and I have a degree in history. So I know a little bit about the settlement patterns of people. I'm Scots-Irish, otherwise known as Ulster Scot. I hear my neighbors call themsleves Irish, and it just irritates me. If your family came from the South or Appalachia, than you're not Irish. I just don't understand this urge to latch on to a culture you're not a part of. My ancestors were Scots that moved to Ulster, than moved to America. We are not Irish, we are Scots-Irish. I just don't get this rush to a member of a minority. My ancestors have been here since the 1700's, and we were the most vocal critics of British rule. Why do we feel the need to include ourselves amongst the Irish Catholics?

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 5:51:19 PM)
quote: Having a degree in history doesnt make you an expert on geneology. My husband is from Alabama, has red hair, green eyes, and a VERY Irish last name does that mean he isnt Irish because he is from the south? Where someones family ended up has nothing to do with their genes. Unless you can trace their blood lines back to whatever country that they claim they are originally from you cant say anything about them. My husbands family sounds like the characters from king of the hill, but they are still irish. What gives you the right to say anything about anyone elses heritage? Maybe your neighbors have irish blood in them, who are you to say that they dont? Maybe they are 1/2 Irish and 1/2 mutt? Like me Im half Native American and 1/2 European, INCLUDING irish, scottish, polish, german, and czech... Maybe to make it easier they are stating what they are most of. People claim their heritage because thats their way of belonging to their ancestors. Everyone wants to belong to something that makes them THEM. They want to say where their family came from, where they started out. It has nothing to do with wanting to claim a specific type of group, it has to do with people wanting to know their own personal family history. In all honesty I think you are kind of arrogant to sit there and talk about someone elses blood lines knowing nothing of their family history. Then to say that if someone is from the south that makes them NOT something... Well thats just absured. I feel sorry for your neighbors since you seem to pass judgment on them with no background on what you are claiming. Wh It's hard to understand what you're saying with your horrible writing. But I willl try. Red hair is not exclusive to Ireland, and there is no such thing as an "Irish name." The surnames you read now did not exist until written language existed. The Irish did not have that until outsiders made their way in. I'm sorry, but that's the way it was. If your family came into the U.S. prior to the mid-1800's, than you probably didn't come from Catholic Irish blood. I'm sorry, but that's just historical record. If you're family is protestant, than you're not Irish in all liklihood. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 5:57:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I hear my neighbors call themsleves Irish, and it just irritates me. If your family came from the South or Appalachia, than you're not Irish. You should probably tell that to the Tenth Tennessee Infantry Regiment (Irish) Confederate States Volunteers or maybe Company E, 33rd Infantry of the Stonewall Brigade AKA The Emerald Guards or if not them 1st Irish Volunteers, CSA. who's stars and bars proudly displaied and Gold Irish Harp in the middle of the white stripe. I'm a Union many myself but ya got this one wrong I am afraid. Also, The Irish diaspora led thousands of Catholic Irish to Savannah, New Orleans and Baltimore (prior to the Civil War, Maryland was considered the northernmost "Southern" State and Baltimore the northernmost "Southern" City) Here is a famous painting of the "Non" Irish Southerners [;)] [Mod Note: image removed]

SubRefuge -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 5:59:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou My entire life, I've been meeting folks that claim they're Irish. I live in the South, and I have a degree in history. So I know a little bit about the settlement patterns of people. I'm Scots-Irish, otherwise known as Ulster Scot. I hear my neighbors call themsleves Irish, and it just irritates me. If your family came from the South or Appalachia, than you're not Irish. I just don't understand this urge to latch on to a culture you're not a part of. My ancestors were Scots that moved to Ulster, than moved to America. We are not Irish, we are Scots-Irish. I just don't get this rush to a member of a minority. My ancestors have been here since the 1700's, and we were the most vocal critics of British rule. Why do we feel the need to include ourselves amongst the Irish Catholics? And I don't understand how people born in the US , with parents born in the US, with grandparents born in the US, with great-grandparents born in the US, claim to be anything but fucking AMERICAN. If your family has been here since the 1700s, you are probably 15th or 16th generation American. Not Irish-American. Not African-American. Not German-American. Not Iranian-American. You are AMERICAN. Did your Irish relatives claim to be Neanderthals, because that is where they came from 10,000 generations ago? Why not accent your most recent heritage? The United States is a country millions of people wish they lived in. You are here, and want to claim to be from somewhere else. If you don't want to claim to be American - Continental, AerLingus, and Delta have non-stop flights back to your motherland.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:01:05 PM)
quote: You should probably tell that to the Tenth Tennessee Infantry Regiment (Irish) Confederate States Volunteers or maybe Company E, 33rd Infantry of the Stonewall Brigade AKA The Emerald Guards or if not them 1st Irish Volunteers CSA. I'm a Union many myself but ya got this one wrong I am afraid. Also, The Irish diaspora led thousands of Catholic Irish to Savannah, New Orleans and Baltimore (prior to the Civil War, Marland was considered the northernmost "Southern" State and Baltimore the northernmost "Southern" City) Here is a famous painting of the "Non" Irish Southerners [;)] I'm aware FatdomDaddy, but that is a microcosm in our culture. You know it is. How many Catholics do you know that have been here longer than 100 years?

windchymes -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:01:28 PM)
So we have Fake Irish, "twue" Irish, and Irish wannabe's?

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:07:23 PM)
quote: And I don't understand how people born in the US , with parents born in the US, with grandparents born in the US, with great-grandparents born in the US, claim to be anything but fucking AMERICAN. If your family has been here since the 1700s, you are probably 15th or 16th generation American. Not Irish-American. Not African-American. Not German-American. Not Iranian-American. You are AMERICAN. Did your Irish relatives claim to be Neanderthals, because that is where they came from 10,000 generations ago? Why not accent your most recent heritage? The United States is a country millions of people wish they lived in. You are here, and want to claim to be from somewhere else. If you don't want to claim to be American - Continental, AerLingus, and Delta have non-stop flights back to your motherland. I knew this was going to be the response. [8\|]. I am an American. You might what to note that Ulster Scots are not people that claim anything else. We are the hillbillies, rednecks, hicks, etc. We have been in this country since the beginning. For that reason, I don't understand the rush to be a member of a minority group.

Alumbrado -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:09:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: You should probably tell that to the Tenth Tennessee Infantry Regiment (Irish) Confederate States Volunteers or maybe Company E, 33rd Infantry of the Stonewall Brigade AKA The Emerald Guards or if not them 1st Irish Volunteers CSA. I'm a Union many myself but ya got this one wrong I am afraid. Also, The Irish diaspora led thousands of Catholic Irish to Savannah, New Orleans and Baltimore (prior to the Civil War, Marland was considered the northernmost "Southern" State and Baltimore the northernmost "Southern" City) Here is a famous painting of the "Non" Irish Southerners [;)] I'm aware FatdomDaddy, but that is a microcosm in our culture. You know it is. How many Catholics do you know that have been here longer than 100 years? A lot...some of them have red hair too... but their surnames tend to be 'DeSoto,' and such....[;)]

mastervalentine -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:09:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SubRefuge quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou My entire life, I've been meeting folks that claim they're Irish. I live in the South, and I have a degree in history. So I know a little bit about the settlement patterns of people. I'm Scots-Irish, otherwise known as Ulster Scot. I hear my neighbors call themsleves Irish, and it just irritates me. If your family came from the South or Appalachia, than you're not Irish. I just don't understand this urge to latch on to a culture you're not a part of. My ancestors were Scots that moved to Ulster, than moved to America. We are not Irish, we are Scots-Irish. I just don't get this rush to a member of a minority. My ancestors have been here since the 1700's, and we were the most vocal critics of British rule. Why do we feel the need to include ourselves amongst the Irish Catholics? And I don't understand how people born in the US , with parents born in the US, with grandparents born in the US, with great-grandparents born in the US, claim to be anything but fucking AMERICAN. If your family has been here since the 1700s, you are probably 15th or 16th generation American. Not Irish-American. Not African-American. Not German-American. Not Iranian-American. You are AMERICAN. Did your Irish relatives claim to be Neanderthals, because that is where they came from 10,000 generations ago? Why not accent your most recent heritage? The United States is a country millions of people wish they lived in. You are here, and want to claim to be from somewhere else. If you don't want to claim to be American - Continental, AerLingus, and Delta have non-stop flights back to your motherland. Nationality and Ancestry are two -very- different things, my angry friend. While I personally have no records of my own ancestry, my family all says we come from aztec and mayan on my father's side, and an irish-heavy mix of northern european blood on my mother's side. So, assuming they are accurate, (and I don't see any reason why we can't assume that, or why it should really matter.) I am those things, and a citizen of the United States. If I were to change my citizenship to German, I would still have my ancestry. That can not be changed. As for "latching onto a culture we aren't part of", SB, I wonder what it is that got your panties in a knot. Who's to say I don't have a right to enjoy any of the likely dozens of cultures my blood can be traced back to? America is the world's melting pot. We have members of practically every culture, practitioners of a hundred different religeons, every race, color and creed, are you saying they should abandon everything they've ever been taught? Thousands of years of struggle and hardship? Legends and myths and a rich and diverse culture wiped from existance simply to suit your belief that Americans have to be a certain way and acknowledge a certain way of thinking? I wonder, do you think before you write?

popeye1250 -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:14:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou My entire life, I've been meeting folks that claim they're Irish. I live in the South, and I have a degree in history. So I know a little bit about the settlement patterns of people. I'm Scots-Irish, otherwise known as Ulster Scot. I hear my neighbors call themsleves Irish, and it just irritates me. If your family came from the South or Appalachia, than you're not Irish. I just don't understand this urge to latch on to a culture you're not a part of. My ancestors were Scots that moved to Ulster, than moved to America. We are not Irish, we are Scots-Irish. I just don't get this rush to a member of a minority. My ancestors have been here since the 1700's, and we were the most vocal critics of British rule. Why do we feel the need to include ourselves amongst the Irish Catholics? Slaveboy, they probably do that because the Irish are the fucking coolest people on earth. My last name is Scots-Irish too on my paternal grandfather's side and his ancesters probably went to Ireland from Scotland during or after the Jacovite wars. Only they stayed in Ireland until the early 1900's. And they must have converted to Catholisim in Ireland probably from Presbitarians in Scotland. My grandmother's clans were "Dohertys", "McLaughlins" and "Laffertys", very common names up on the Inishowen Peninsula of Donegal. My mother's people came from Sligo and were "Mc Donoughs" and "Faheys" prounounced "Fa-Hay", in Irish. Not all the "Scots-Irish" left Ireland, many intermarried and are still there today. About as far as you can go back in that part of Ireland is maybe 200 years. (if you're lucky.) When I was over in Donegal doing geneology research an Irish Preist a Fr. Mc Goldrick told me that many churches burned over the years and took the records with them. Also, many were very poor and couldn't afford a headstone for loved ones so they'd just put a big rock on the grave. So, if your friends and neighbors have Irish names they are, to a certain extent "Irish." The Scots and the Irish are "cousins" anyway! On a good clear day you can see Scotland from Malin Head. The Scots and the Irish have been intermingling in marriage, commerce and music for a thousand years. All Scottish Kings before 1789 were Irish.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:14:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I'm aware FatdomDaddy, but that is a microcosm in our culture. You know it is. How many Catholics do you know that have been here longer than 100 years? Well not mine, turn of the 20th here BUT... Tens of thousands came in wake of the Potato Famine (1846-48)and settled in the afore mentioned 'southeren' cities. And lest we forget, the most famous fictional Southern Belle, one Kathleen (Katie Scarlett) O'Hara and her Tara plantation were Irish through and through.

TheIronHorse -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:16:10 PM)
My Great Great Grandmother was a Sioux. The rest of the family is Irish of various lineage, but we've been here since before the revolution. I'm simply an American.

Briena -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:18:10 PM)
Unlike most people who claim to be something with nothing to prove it, I have had my ancestry researched on both my fathers and my mothers side; so no appology needed. I know what, and who I am, and where my family came from. Actually I didnt have it done, my parents did, to be honest. As for my husband, his family is catholic, just as mine is. Except for those who have strayed elsewhere. Like the two of us who are not catholic. His family is one of those families who actually have details about their origins, with crazy grandma and her crazy box of ancient pictures, and huge family tree... There is no need to trace anything anywhere with him because his family has it. So like I said, unless you actually know of a persons individual family history you have no right to make comments about who they claim to be. Also, I know that hair color does not mean that they are this or that, I was just pointing out how my husband looks like your typical irish boy with red hair, green eyes and that he has a very irish last name. For anyone who actually wants to look up how long a 'written language' has been in Ireland they can go to this website and get the history of the country and the national language. http://irelandnow.com/language.html From what it says a written language has been around since the 4th century BC. Thats a long time for a family to have an Irish last name I would think...

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:20:02 PM)
BTW... Ulster-Scots are Gaelic Celts, just like their brethern to the south. In fact Scoti, was the Roman name for the people on the island now known as Ireland.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:24:35 PM)
I knew this post would piss off people. Too bad, live with it. If you weren't born Catholic, you probably aren't Irish. Sorry, but that's the truth.

LadyLynx -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:26:35 PM)
slaveboy, umm. ok. Of all the things to get pissy over you pick this? lol. (trying to interject alittle humor.) SubRefuge: all of us are many things, alot of us see no reason whatsoever not to take pride in whatever country our ancesters came from, as well as being American. I am proud of being American, but I am also proud of my multi cultural heritage.

LadyLynx -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:28:49 PM)
I thought the name Scot came from Scota? (can't remember the origin, but I seem to remember it related to a myth, maybe of the Nine Waves, or Ninth Wave? have to see if I can find it.

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