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BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness"?? - 8/28/2008 9:41:01 AM

ravenslaveheart

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/19/2008
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my somewhat-ex boyfriend/Dom just dropped a bombshell on me today! he said that he wants to pack up and sell all of his BDSM equipment. that's okay, i told him i'm keeping what's mine, because i'm still in the lifestyle. then he said that he's never ever going to be in the scene again, because he believes that it's SICK. *BOGGLE* as in, mentally ill sick. he says it's just "perverse codependence." this is from a man who has been in the scene for years, an experienced player, a man with an awesome innate Dominant nature, and quite a lot of talent. this is from the man who took me to places i'd never even dreamed of before, made me fly and flew with me, the man who kept saying over and over "you're so beautiful" whenever i submitted, the one who told me my submission was a precious gift to him, the man who said he cherished my submission. and now i learn that i was just partaking in some kind of perverse, sick relationship dynamic?? and he went farther to say that my perception of it isn't real, that things were never good between us, that we never had a good scene. but i have them all carefully journaled! with notes from him right beside my writings!

i don't understand this. i'm confused, and i feel hurt. who was i submitting to, if not him? why would he say it was sick?? i told him, i am a submissive woman, and it's healthy for me to be able to say that! he just kept shaking his head, silently. nothing he can say can take my submissive nature away from me, my slave heart. but the word "sick" is reverberating in my brain. i literally feel sick that i submitted for so long and so intensely to a man who now tells me it was all a delusion. i am so angry!!! but also i feel so damned hurt. i find that i'm doubting myself, deep inside, because i had given all my trust to this man, apparently some of that trust is still there. i am so confused!!!!

< Message edited by ravenslaveheart -- 8/28/2008 9:42:04 AM >

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 9:48:35 AM

CalifChick

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From: California
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My first thought was that he found religion.

Cali

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 9:51:57 AM

Lynnxz

Posts: 4813
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Haha, yeah... someone found jeebus!

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 9:53:21 AM

heartfeltsub

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Although i am a Christian and know what one can both be a believer and be into BDSM, i would have to agree with Califchick, it sounds like he has found religion or something at least that has convinced him his desires are sick. i'm been there, tried to fight who and what i am, it doesn't work long term, and will probably not work for him either.

heartfelt

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 9:53:37 AM

stella41b

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I'm not surprised.. it sounds chaotic and you must both be in a certain amount of turmoil.

Was there something which might have triggered this? Some sort of event maybe? Or has this been building up for some time?

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 9:54:07 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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Raven:

I truly feel for you. Obviously, something changed in his head. Really, when you step back and look at it, it's not so hard to understand his viewpoint. I don't agree with it mind you. But it's not hard to see how that viewpoint could be held. Clearly some event happened (or more likely, a slow building of events) which changed things for him somehow. What used to work now doesn't. He is projecting his own internal headspace on everyone else (it doesn't work for me so it must not work for anyone else). That's just plain ridiculous thinking. Surely YOU know for yourself whether your BDSM engagement is "sick" or not? Is it helping you in your life or hurting you? If it's helping, then it's not "sick".

Who were you submitting to? His past self. He's changed.
Why would he say it's sick? Projection... see above.
He can't take your submissive nature away from you? OK, normally I'd quibble on the terms, but I know what you mean and good for you. You are you. Don't allow him to project his own thoughts onto yours
The word "sick" reverberates. It's HIS sickness (and that may be very real for him), not yours. Just remember that.
You're so angry and hurt. Fair enough. It was a nasty curve ball he threw you and in a very undisciplined and nasty way. Just remember that it may not be "bait and switch". Sometimes people do change.
You trusted him. Good for you. Something has changed for him which should cause you to reconsider your relationship with him. But honestly, it sounds like he's going through a difficult time also. Granted, he handled it pretty poorly, but perhaps a little sympathy and understanding from you can at least ease his transition.

Don't let the "sick" word hang you up. Put some definition on it. I define "sick" as behavior which works against me achieving happiness and success in life. How do YOU define it? Now, does that definition apply to you or not? Get it out of the abstract and into the specific and then decide if the shoe fits or not.

Again, I really feel for you. That was a nasty curve ball. Good luck and well wishes
~Jeff

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 9:55:52 AM

ODadEO

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whoa.... I'm no psychologist or psychiatrist, and I for sure don't know any of the reasons leading him to this point, but it sounds to me like he is approaching some crisis in life, so to speak... is he depressed? has he reached some identity crisis? That kind of change is too sudden, too abrupt to be a healthy conclusion or soul-searching result, it seems. But like I said, I'm no expert -- that's just the feel I get from your post.

(in reply to ravenslaveheart)

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 9:55:57 AM

velvetears

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You were genuine and for what it's worth he was too when he believed in his dominant nature and enjoyed the lifestyle with you. He didn't decieve you. Feel compassion for him because he sounds like a person who is in turmoil and suffering a lot of guilt. You have nothing to prove to him - you are what you are. You know you aren't sick or perverted, getting angry or upset will just give his argument more fire (that you are sick).

There is nothing you can do to change his mind... so don't. i personally don't think it would be healthy to stay with this man, you haven't said what your relationship is now with him. If you do stay and try to work it out you will probably end up resenting him in the end and living a life not true to yourself. If you stay thinking he will return to you as the dominant you knew and loved you may spend years hoping for an illusion that never comes to fruition and waste precious time... move on and good luck!

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 9:58:45 AM

RedMagic1

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While I strongly agree with the previous posters, it's worth pointing out that things like this don't just happen. Take a look at any red flags he might have put up that you decided not to notice. Also, just because he wigged out, he's not necessarily 100% wrong. If someone else told you that your relationship with him was unhealthily codependent, would you acknowledge they had a point, even if that wasn't totally true?

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 10:02:24 AM

FRSguy

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Dont over react. Stay calm and wait it out to a degree. You have to get more info.

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 10:05:08 AM

MissEnchanted

Posts: 510
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

My first thought was that he found religion.

Cali

Me too!

He may just need a break, a time-out, a splash of time being vanilla?

(in reply to CalifChick)

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 10:05:15 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
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did he see the movie hostel 2 or saw series or something??? there are gruesome bdsm scenes in them....

gotta have something triggered to suddenly change his thinking...maybe someone he knows died during a scene??? maybe a family member found out that wasnt supposed to and said he was a freak?

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 10:10:01 AM

ravenslaveheart

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/19/2008
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the status of our relationship is: he left me, told me he needed to work on his own issues, and didn't want to get my hopes up but that he really would like to get back together with me. so it's open for now, we're talking, he's keeping his promises to my daughter, and i'm going on with life as usual (not putting myself on hold til he decides).

it's so odd, i've written articles for other BDSM sites about a D/s relationship being a "state of healthy codependence." for example, a submissive must anticipate the Dominant's needs to some extent, and the Dominant sometimes needs to make assumptions about what's going on inside the submissive's head in order to drive a scene in a certain direction. all of this is codependent, but it's healthy in that both parties are consenting to be codependent. he knows about my writings, i can't remember if he ever read any of the articles, though. it's just ironic i guess, we both consented to be codependent in a healthy manner, and now he calls it perverse.

he didn't find religion, he already had one and still has it. but he's definitely analyzing himself, he's in therapy, he talks of how much self-work he's doing. i can appreciate that, and empathize. i just can not get my head wrapped around the fact that he thinks i was delusional, submitting to nothing, that he wasn't Dominating (when i know damn well he was), and that if we were to ever enter into a D/s relationship in the future, it would be because we're mentally ill.

i've always felt D/s relationships are if anything a bit healthier than vanilla relationships ... because there is so much trust involved, so much negotiation (i.e. more communication), so many promises to keep, and there are so few secrets between the parties. i know i could never live in a vanilla relationship ever again, i did for 10 years and i was so pent-up and miserable, i felt i was only living half of my life. that relationship ended amicably.

maybe he just said it to hurt me, to kick me while i'm down? i know people in break-ups can get pretty mean-spirited, although i'm not one to do that. i'm more of a "let me process this quietly, ask some questions, and write you a note" sort of person.

i still feel confused, and very hurt. i can be logical and all that and tell myself of course he's wrong about me, that what he's saying applies only to him. my head can say that. it's my heart that doesn't listen to my head very often! my heart is breaking.

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Don't be reckless with other people's hearts and don't put up with whose who are reckless with yours.

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 10:13:39 AM

Lasciviouslady1

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I agree with all the above posts as well, but the main question in my mind would be WHY??? Some sort of 'event' had to bring this about....

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 10:21:08 AM

Daes

Posts: 246
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From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
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Thats horrible. Absolutely horrible. I would be heartbroken.

Just keep in mind its not your fault or your issue. Know that you are happy in the lifestyle and it works for you. All breakups are painful and this eventually wont hurt so much, the things he said are his way of justifying or making sense of his own behavior. If submitting fullfills you and makes you happy, he has No say in that.

*Hugs*

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 10:21:22 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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Raven, have you considered that this is an excuse to break up with you? Maybe his other issues that required him to go into therapy overwhelmed him. Maybe he even still has feeling for you and he is using the BDSM aspect of your relationship as a way to distract you from some other reality that he'd prefer to keep hidden.

A BDSM relationship is no more, or less, "healthier" than any other type. Its no more, or less, healthy as the people who comprise it.

(in reply to Lasciviouslady1)

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 10:21:36 AM

heartfeltsub

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i don't know if i would call D/s relationships any healthier than vanilla relationships or vice versa, the healthiness of a relationship is based on the people in it. The hiding of who a person is can be done in either type of relationship.

i also wanted to comment about your last paragraph

quote:

i still feel confused, and very hurt. i can be logical and all that and tell myself of course he's wrong about me, that what he's saying applies only to him. my head can say that. it's my heart that doesn't listen to my head very often! my heart is breaking.

A lot of people when they are looking at their lives and what they have or haven't done, go through a phase of blaming the other that they did those things with if they think those deeds are wrong or bad some how. Most therapists who are not kink aware would call D/s relationships unhealthy, that is why a great many lifestyle people who need counseling go to kink aware counselors so that they don't spend their entire time in counseling trying to defend a lifestyle choice but rather deal with the real issues. And given what you have said, it sounds like his counselor has convinced him that D/s isn't healthy so now he is disassociating himself with everything that relates to D/s including you by saying that you are unhealthy too, so that he doesn't have to carry all the "stigma" by himself. (by that i mean self imposed stigma). i hope that makes some sense.

heartfelt

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Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 10:35:19 AM

RCdc

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I will disagree with those jumping on the 'he found religion' bandwagon.
But then, as you have gone on to say, he already had it, so that isn't a factor.

The first thought that jumps up at me would be his therapist. Did he come to this realisation before or after sessions with this particular individual? If this is something unusual for him to say, it could be his therapist talking, in which case why not attend a different therapist - even suggest you see one together and find a kink freindly one?

That said, I have experience of a relationship that was simlar in the sense that I have been with someone who then decided that BDSM wasn't for them. Yes it is confusing and you may never know the reason as to why - but you can recover from the hurt and confusion and move forward.

the.dark.

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 10:42:00 AM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
The first thought that jumps up at me would be his therapist. Did he come to this realisation before or after sessions with this particular individual? If this is something unusual for him to say, it could be his therapist talking, in which case why not attend a different therapist - even suggest you see one together and find a kink freindly one?

That's a good point dark. It could also be that if this happened before he sought therapy....that whatever issues he was having that led him to seek therapy became so overwhelming that he could no longer see his dominance. Without knowing him or being him though....it's pretty impossible to say what is going on with him.

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 8/28/2008 11:06:55 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenslaveheart

he didn't find religion, he already had one and still has it. but he's definitely analyzing himself, he's in therapy, he talks of how much self-work he's doing. i can appreciate that, and empathize. i just can not get my head wrapped around the fact that he thinks i was delusional, submitting to nothing, that he wasn't Dominating (when i know damn well he was), and that if we were to ever enter into a D/s relationship in the future, it would be because we're mentally ill.

{clipped}
maybe he just said it to hurt me, to kick me while i'm down? i know people in break-ups can get pretty mean-spirited, although i'm not one to do that. i'm more of a "let me process this quietly, ask some questions, and write you a note" sort of person.

i still feel confused, and very hurt. i can be logical and all that and tell myself of course he's wrong about me, that what he's saying applies only to him. my head can say that. it's my heart that doesn't listen to my head very often! my heart is breaking.

My suspicion is that there was some 'leading' by his therapist that got him thinking that his exploration of D/s was a 'crutch' and was 'hindering his progress', and from there, it wasn't a long haul to lead him to "this is sick and unhealthy". Unfortunately, although there are a fair number of therapists out there who recognize the changes regarding BDSM over the years, there are a whole lot -more- who have never embraced the new developments in this area (often because they're uncomfortable with the ideas themselves). I've done a fair share of pastoral care work with people who went into therapy to get themselves together, and were 'led' by their therapists to decide that their alternative spirituality, gender expression, or relationship dynamics were, somehow, to blame for all of their issues or were holding them back from progressing towards 'healing'. There is nothing you can do about this. He either has to accept who he is and decide that the information he's getting doesn't 'jive' with his experiences, or he can choose to suck up the pap and discard all of his own experiences in favor of someone else's "evidence" -- but in either case, you can't do it for him.

Now, as for you -- I can assure you that it is unlikely that he is doing this to hurt you -- if anything, he is probably worried about you, and concerned that you're still "sick" and not getting the proper help. In his own way, out of his own fears, he is trying to help you to 'find a better way'... probably in a way not too different from the way that his therapist "guided" him to let go of his interests in this area. There are plenty of texts available from a variety of well-known, and well-respected "masters" of psychotherapy who will provide 'evidence' that BDSM is dangerous and unhealthy. That's why it was considered a mental illness for a -very- long time. What you need to know is that this is not about -you-, except in a very peripheral way. I doubt that it is meant to intentionally hurt you, or make you feel belittled. It is, however, something that you may find yourself grieving over for a while, and that is OK. My only suggestion is that you gather supportive friends around you and work through your own pain where this is concerned before you go trying to find another relationship to 'replace' what you've lost. It is going to be important to resolve the questions that this incident brings up for you before you think about trying to be happy, healthy, and whole in another relationship.

My thoughts are with you.

Calla Firestorm

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/28/2008 11:08:23 AM >

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(in reply to ravenslaveheart)

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