RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness"??

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RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 3:26:04 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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I have come to this thread late as usual, and I have to say I do feel for you in this situation, I do understand the references to 'mental illness' and 'sickness', I have been through something similar on that.

Therapy, you mention your boyfriend is in therapy, I wonder why he is in therapy, and for how long has he been in therapy and what type of therapy ?

Was he in therapy when he left his last mate in 2004 or is the therapy something he has got himself into since the last episode ? In which case, he saw a problem or was told by concerned others.

Is he really in therapy ? You may only have his word for this.

Therapy is the only thing there which might hold a clue to all this and as far as therapists go, like everything, there are good therapists, bad therapists and everything in between. If this pattern of behaviour is common with him, is the therapist actually doing their job, as if he has done this before to someone, either he has some real powerful issues which he might be keeping schtum about or the therapist is no use, patterns of behaviour are of interest to therapists and with knowledge of this pattern, he should be going 'whoa, take it easy with this, don't repeat past issues'

But as others have said, he might be trying to let you down gently by quitting the fun things in life, fun things followed by fun things until , he is hoping you move on, the easy way out for a partner as they do not have to blame themselves if blame is something he seeks when he realises he got it wrong.

Or like other's have said, he could be trying to see if you are with him because of your fun things, your kink interest, the taking away of the toy might be to see if you are true to him.

Can you live without BDSM ? He is ditching his stuff, maybe he seeks for you to ditch yours, a voluntary action from you ?

People are way too complex, the why's , wherefore's and wiles are vast, patterns exist, but by no means are they that defining.

Good Luck !

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 1/7/2009 3:28:08 AM >

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Post #: 61

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 4:45:39 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
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Dunno if this has been said but Im going to say it anyways. For some people BDSM can actually be 'sick'. Its something I have been thinking about recently, some of my desires for some things are indeed unhealthy, they come from some actual issues that I have to resolve, they arent 'real' desires. This isnt true for everyone but the thing is often there are certain character traits that we all have or have had that come from an element of 'sickness' we can argue them normal if we want or we can accept that it isnt healthy. I have to point out I am not saying that BDSM is sick, far from it but it can be a manifestation of sickness for some.

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Post #: 62

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 7:25:42 PM

MisterMonster

Posts: 156
Joined: 12/9/2008
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Ok, I'm not reading four pages, no time today...but, I've always thought of it as somewhat of an illness. I mean, it stems from some sexual abnormality that occurs when you are young, or some sort of trauma, or something else, I'm pretty sure...kind of...

I dunno, man...all I know, is, I accept that this isn't all that normal...rambling. Damn.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 63

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 7:31:46 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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Um, no. Bdsm desires do not always stem from some kind of sexual abnormality or trauma you suffer when you're a young person.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterMonster

Ok, I'm not reading four pages, no time today...but, I've always thought of it as somewhat of an illness. I mean, it stems from some sexual abnormality that occurs when you are young, or some sort of trauma, or something else, I'm pretty sure...kind of...

I dunno, man...all I know, is, I accept that this isn't all that normal...rambling. Damn.

(in reply to MisterMonster)

Post #: 64

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 7:34:41 PM

T1981

Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

Warning: Tangent that may or may not be relevant:

I'm still fairly new to this, so my views could (and probably will change) and I think motivation is important, but I also think how you go about it is important.

Case in point, my sister recently confided in me that she had always wanted to do a gang bang. So what did she do? She went out and found several random guys, went to one of their cars, and banged away. I was agahst and very concerned, NOT because of the action, but because of how unsafe she went about doing it. She could have been seriously hurt.

At least, in BDSM, we preach things like respect, safewords, limits, consensuality. If someone is attracted to sex that could potentially be dangerous, I'd rather it be in this scene than the average bar scene, to be perfectly honest.

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Post #: 65

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 9:17:47 PM

DavanKael

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Joined: 10/6/2007
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This is a recently revived post, so I am not even sure that the original poster is reading this anymore. If so, if you feel inclined to post an update, that would be cool. I read page 1 and page 4, so I am not sure if this sort of opinion was offered on pages 2 or 3 but here goes: some of what you detailed in your original post seemed like some of the revisionist crap my ex- spouted when we separated. I knew otherwise, others knew otherwise, there were many "wtf" moments when I spoke with others about what he'd said. Sometimes people need to re-write history to pull away. It sucks. It smacks of a failure to take responsibility but few people are willing to do so, it seems. Sometimes it's just easier for those so-inclined to tag a particular thing as pathological or waaaaay different than it was when you were living it. I am not saying that this is exactly what is happening (Or is what happened) but, again, it really resonated with a personal circumstance (My ex- was vanilla, so the details are different but the sort of behavior is the same, that re-writing of history, of calling negative things you know were not, etc.), thus I chose to add my voice. Regardless, best wishes,
Davan

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(in reply to T1981)

Post #: 66

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 9:24:06 PM

roughleather

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Maybe he's just tired of it, or feels it's now out of style. In SF, the "scene" is more or less over. It was fun while it lasted.

The next cool thing here may be steampunk.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 67

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 9:26:47 PM

Maxwell67

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I have read through much of this now, and many great responses, but I had to add something to this discussion, though I want to preface this comment by saying that not actually knowing the parties involved, it is largely intuition that led me to this conclusion, but it is one informed by years of studying the root causes of peoples motivations.

I do not think it matters what reason he gives for his shutting this relationship down. No one throws a loving relationship away overnight, regardless of whether or not the psychological health of your activities might have been questionable. This is all purely an excuse for his behavior. This is about him. It may have something to do with you as a couple as well, and probably does, but it is certainly not about BDSM. He may hold it in front of himself as a shield and try to claim some kind of moral or psychological high ground as his excuse for what he is doing, but his actual reasons are different. He has suffered some wound that he does not want anyone to know about, and the rest of this charade is aimed at dealing with that. If he had not used this as his justification he would have found something else. He hit a wall in some other aspect of his life and is desperately flailing for some way to salvage his self image. Like most instant conversions of heart, though, this is a false "Ah ha moment", and it will not really fix the problem for him. Until he confronts the real issue, he will do this again, and probably at an increasing pace. This is a pattern. This particular manifestation is an extreme one, but it is still typical.

< Message edited by Maxwell67 -- 1/7/2009 9:28:23 PM >

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Post #: 68

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 9:40:04 PM

pnut8377

Posts: 33
Status: offline

I haven't read all the posts so I don't know if this was mentioned but is it possible he was seeing someone else without your knowledge in the vanilla sense and then when he tried to bring BDSM into that relationship it was that person that told him it was sick? Just a thought.

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Post #: 69

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 10:22:59 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
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Been in that situation. A man's guilt complex coming to the surface and in the end he wants 'you' to accept all the feelings of being dirty and bad.

In most cases I tend to believe someone like this is likely the type who thought by finding a partner in BDSM would make his life easier because she is and will be his own lil toy and make him (think he is) a better person in the long run.

Later on, they only wish it could all be normal and keep you despite the fact that you 'aren't' vanilla.

His guilt can hold him hostage, It wouldn't hold me.

(in reply to pnut8377)

Post #: 70

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/7/2009 11:02:13 PM

Aszhrae

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Joined: 3/31/2008
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Sounds to me like an external influence might have caused this, that what he has told you about your relationship might be the words someone else has said to him and he is only repeating them.

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Goddess bless and keep you and yours safe

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Post #: 71

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/8/2009 11:26:12 AM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

Anyone remember the scene in The Secretary? He tells her after their 'incident' that what happened was wrong and tells her to pack her things because she is fired. Guilt.

(in reply to Aszhrae)

Post #: 72

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/8/2009 1:29:35 PM

GoddessTeaze

Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
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It would be nice how it turned out, but the starter of this question, hasn't been online since 11 may '08.

so...

I hope you're safe

GoddezzT`

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Post #: 73

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/8/2009 1:41:12 PM

Aszhrae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: johnsteed2

Many therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists will treat BDSM as an illness, so this might be what's happened, and it might be time for him to change therapists.

In fact, according to WikiPedia's BDSM article, it wasn't really until 1994 when the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV (DSM-IV) was published that BDSM was finally no longer automatically classified as a disorder or illness (though there are now guidelines regarding behavior in which it can still be classified as such). DSM-IV TR (a minor revision) relaxed things even more. It will be interesting to see if DSM-V (due out in a few years) changes things any.

I also think there's a weird cosmic bit of humor in the fact that there's "DSM" in BDSM.

At this point I would ask if he has been prescribed any thing that would make him less dominant by nature and more submissive to suggestion.
One of the reasons I dislike therapists getting into my head because they have a tendency towards playing god when rewiring how someone thinks. Prescriptions make it a whole lot easier as they seek to lower defenses until an individual becomes more open, relaxed and malleable.

_____________________________

To my own self, I be true.

Goddess bless and keep you and yours safe

Ricah-Azzh

(in reply to johnsteed2)

Post #: 74

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/8/2009 1:55:22 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenslaveheart

he didn't find religion, he already had one and still has it. but he's definitely analyzing himself, he's in therapy, he talks of how much self-work he's doing. i can appreciate that, and empathize. i just can not get my head wrapped around the fact that he thinks i was delusional, submitting to nothing, that he wasn't Dominating (when i know damn well he was), and that if we were to ever enter into a D/s relationship in the future, it would be because we're mentally ill.

Not all therapists are good therapists.

His therapist may have said things they have no business saying (in my very strong opinion).

Or dealing with himself and his past may just be opening up things he needs to deal with. Having been in that situation myself though I think it's much healthier to deal with your partner however.

I went through about four months after I had to start therapy when my sex drive died because I was afraid that I had absorbed the evil of my first abuser and he'd made me kinky. I didn't tell my therapist for four month and when I did she told me that was the silliness thing she's even heard -- no she was not kinky merely very good.

She pointed out that what I did was consensual between adults, for both/all parties' benefit. What was done to me was an attack on my very right to be a person. 180 degrees from each other.

That was the best thing that even happened to me in therapy I think.

So ask him if he's talked to his therapist about it.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ravenslaveheart)

Post #: 75

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/8/2009 1:59:29 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenslaveheart

i was just able to ask him if he got his ideas from his therapist, and he said not at all. then he proceeded to deny saying anything that he said earlier, refused to clarify how he feels about the D/s lifestyle, and walked out again.
*bangs head on wall*

it only helps me a little, but today i've learned he did this exact same thing to a submissive in 2004. she has far, far better self-esteem than i, yet his behavior devastated her for a while. at least i'm not alone in this. thank you for all your thoughtful replies and questions, also! it helps me to think things through, i guess i've always been more of a group philosopher than a solitary thinker.

That makes it sound like a pattern of fearing commitment. If he says it's "evil" he's doing the right thing but leaving, right?

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ravenslaveheart)

Post #: 76

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/8/2009 2:03:48 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenslaveheart

he had asked me to come to joint sessions with his therapist, at least 2 visits. he had asked me, "won't you think my therapist is biased towards me?" and i answered "i can advocate for myself." when i asked him the date and time of the 2 visits, he said he really doesn't know if he wants to do it now, and can't give a reason. *shrugs*

playing a lot of music these days, i find Evanescence is wonderful for my situation ...

Couldn't take the blame.
Sick with shame.
Must be exhausting to lose your own game.
Selfishly hated,
No wonder you're jaded.
You can't play the victim this time

If you know his therapist, give her/him a call and say that he's asked you to come with him but you wanted to make sure that would be ok.

If the therapist has never heard of this idea, it may be another attempt on his part to have you but not commit to you or he may be fighting these patterns of behavior.

The choice is really yours.

Sit and wait for him to make all the moves or make your own.

Get your own couple's therapist and make an appointment for you both after you meet with him/her and make sure they both kink aware and friendly.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ravenslaveheart)

Post #: 77

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/8/2009 4:21:43 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
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this might be helpful:

http://gloriabrame.com/domidea/fallacy.htm

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Post #: 78

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/8/2009 4:53:07 PM

Amaros

Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline

"Perverse codependence."Hmmm... why is that phrase turning me on?

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Post #: 79

RE: BDSM is "sick" and "mental illness&q... - 1/8/2009 5:16:38 PM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

i donot know but bdsmers re not in the mass so each can do what ever they want but i am little tired of the bashing religious thingies after all you can have both

(in reply to Amaros)

Post #: 80

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