Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:07:28 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

Philosophy-

i have several friends that have small businesses and they worry alot about the increase in taxes that Obama proposes, which one friend told me could equal 56%!  That and the higher minimum wage will put him out of business!  Also he mentioned the death tax increase from 15% to 45%!

oh...things will get worse before they get better!


Obama seeks to raise the top personal rate 2% for those reporting $250,000 income and up. I do not know of any targeted tax increase on small businesses. This does mean that ANY income less than that...will NOT have ANY increase in their federal tax liability. The states are all over the place so are not included here.

The so-called death tax is a tax that for political purposes only...has been renamed. This tax is actually an INCOME tax on the heirs. The first $2 million are exempt as of 2007, 2009 it goes to $3.5 million and I think $10 million in 2010.

Also, there are many exemptions and methods via paper to eliminate or reduce much from taxation, some of which are various irrevocable trusts. Some are funds that sends out checks similar to an anuity.

(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:20:42 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slotlover

The minimum wage unfortunately is one of those very popular but incredibly stupid ideas that most people will never understand because they have never learned the basics of economic principles.  Just think it through:  If mandating a minimum wage for *any* labor is a good thing, why stop at $7.50 or even $20 an hour?  Why not mandate $100 an hour?  What effects would that have?


I see.  So, undoubtedly by holding a Ph.D in economics, you can enlighten the ignorant masses on your economic theories and set everyone straight.   

(in reply to slotlover)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:26:52 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		When did those making above 250k add up to 5% of the populace?  See this is where the question about tax breaks to 95% of working families has me confused.

Seeing as US census numbers only go up to $300k+  and IRS figures only show $1M + in data provided, it is speculation to guess where that number would fall, and how many folks would or would not be affected by a tax increase.  Do a search for L-curve.

Obama wants to keep the exemption where it is, and raise the rate.  McCain has suggested raising the exemption to 5Million and lowering the rate.  This is a completely unfair tax as it double dips, every year taxes are paid on the interest earned, and income earned by the person building their estate.  Even if you argue that the tax is a good thing, please explain to me where it is good policy to allow a person to leave a 2M estate with no taxes due, yet a person that has a 3.5M estate is basicly leaving their heirs 1.9M.

Just a humble opinion.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:32:27 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Obama seeks to raise the top personal rate 2% for those reporting $250,000 income and up


Uhmm... You must have missed the part of the top rate going to 39.6% and moving up the medicaid rate by 2.9% and also the social security increase of  2-4 points... for that top rate.  Plus the moving of what income is not exempt from those 2 taxes.

Not much of an increase at all......

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:33:48 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

However, if a company and its stockholders feel like paying a CEO that ammount, then who am I to argue against it?


...if that same company is also fighting against things like a miniscule pay rise for their lowest paid employees, or trying to get health and safety rules relaxed then i have no problem at all arguing against it.
Don't get me wrong, there will always be a gap between the richest and poorest members of a society. However there comes a point where that gap is obscene, and arguably dangerous. Make that gap big enough, and the poorest end up with nothing to lose.......

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:35:07 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

Philosophy-

i have several friends that have small businesses and they worry alot about the increase in taxes that Obama proposes, which one friend told me could equal 56%!  That and the higher minimum wage will put him out of business!  Also he mentioned the death tax increase from 15% to 45%!

oh...things will get worse before they get better!


Maybe it's time you do some research instead of relying on what you hear.  Might help change your mind.  The least it will do is help you get your facts straight. 

(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:43:49 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

obviously you never met a war veteran!


I know far more about war and veterans than you can imagine in your worst fucking nightmares, so I would appreciate if you would stick to addressing my points, not making assumptions about things you know nothing of. 

(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:45:11 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline 		I don't think at this point that anyone can state from any reasonable position that either candidate can't win. 

A relative small number of currently undecided voters will decide this election.  And they don't make decisions based on logic, they do it on a gut feeling at the last minute. It's either man's race, but what a ride it's gonna be!

_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:48:37 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		so you guys are saying that Obama raising taxes on the Americans that make $250,000 or more would not affect our econonmy?  i disagree since these Americans are the majority of the small business owners that employ most of the working class of this country.

maybe my numbers/figures are wrong.

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:50:25 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		I agree that his proposals are going to have a negative impact on investment and creation of jobs, plus stagnate the economy.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:51:46 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		my grandfather and my uncle both served this country during wartime.  i would never disrespect or belittle ANY veteran's service to this country.  i was simply wondering why you would.

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:55:14 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

Obama wants to keep the exemption where it is, and raise the rate.  McCain has suggested raising the exemption to 5Million and lowering the rate.  This is a completely unfair tax as it double dips, every year taxes are paid on the interest earned, and income earned by the person building their estate.  Even if you argue that the tax is a good thing, please explain to me where it is good policy to allow a person to leave a 2M estate with no taxes due, yet a person that has a 3.5M estate is basicly leaving their heirs 1.9M.

Just a humble opinion.
[/quote]

Since when is any tax fair?

The question is, if you eliminate the estate tax, or even follow McCain's proposal, where do you make up the lost tax revenue?

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 6:02:06 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		I always found it interesting that Bill Gates is against lowering estate taxes.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 6:04:39 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

my grandfather and my uncle both served this country during wartime.  i would never disrespect or belittle ANY veteran's service to this country.  i was simply wondering why you would.


I'm not.  As I've said, there is a difference in being proud of your service and using it to deflect criticism, which McCain and his staff have recently stooped to.  I am a Democrat but I vote who I think the best candidate is.  I would have voted for him had he won the nomination over Bush.  The John McCain of today I can't even believe is the same person.

(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 6:06:54 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


Since when is any tax fair?

The question is, if you eliminate the estate tax, or even follow McCain's proposal, where do you make up the lost tax revenue?


How about the option of cutting spending?  When did the concept get flipped that the money belongs to Congress and not to you and me?

Edited to fix the quotes... as some folks delete one too many sets of tags.

< Message edited by Thadius -- 9/4/2008 6:08:23 PM >

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 6:11:46 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

I always found it interesting that Bill Gates is against lowering estate taxes.


Warren Buffet too.  Tellingly, Sam Walton's heirs have spent millions lobbying for their elimination.  Even though the Wal-Mart fortune has kept them on Forbes top ten wealthiest list for years.  Greed is an amazing thing. 

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 6:13:12 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		i believe that the American people are worried about our future in this war.  having a leader that has actually fought in a war is important to alot of people including me!  i want our troops home now, but i want them home safe and victorious if that is possible.  i respect McCain for his service in Vietnam and i respect our troops fighting in iraq, even though i truly believe we should not have put our troops in harms way then or now! 

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 6:19:53 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

As I've said before the Dems are going to be kicking themselves in November for not nominating Hillary.
People aren't going to vote for a Global Socialist who wants to give their money away to foreign countries.


Yeah. Much better to just vote to keep sending billions to Iraq.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 6:23:57 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		so we vote Democrat?  has the Democratic congress that we voted in 2 years ago ended the war & the wasteful spending?  they made all those promises just to get elected.  then they voted for the surge!

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 - 9/4/2008 6:26:21 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		hmmmmm?

osama bin laden
obama biden

that rhymes!!!

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 140
Page:   <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109