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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 12:15:51 AM   
ShieldWolf


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Status: offline 		Thanks for the link  Ken, but the states they put in play, well some of them just likely won't be. I hardly believe that we can't get any closer to an educated guess than to have 139 electoral votes up for grabs. Of course, if one side or the other has a major gaffe then anything is possible. I would recommend the electoral maps over at realclearpolitics.com and the analysis of Jay Cost who is a statistician with uncanny insight into what the polls mean and how to breakdown the battleground states. Yes he is conservative but doesn't let that taint his mathematical analysis.

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 12:17:52 AM   
ShieldWolf


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Status: offline 		I would not agree that this election is really anything special compared to others. Trends are similar to 1948, 1960, and 2000.

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 12:39:06 AM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeres

All I gotta say is that Polls are just a guide, if anything. It isn't concrete. If Polls really are the "be all and end all" then we don't even need to have an election. Polls are skewed in the manner that questions are asked. So, I for one will listen to polls but I won't be ready to declare a winner quite yet. And as for the Sept 2 polls, it doesn't include Palin's speech nor McCain's. We won't hear/see those polls until middle of next week at best.

Just a thought is all.



I never said they were accurate. They are just interesting to look at.

When I took Statistics in college one of the first things my professor said was that every poll you will ever read is wrong. Statistics is not an exact science at all...all polls have margins of error sometimes up to 4 points.

And the state polls are a mess. I tried going through those earlier today and they are wacky. One poll shows it a dead heat, another shows a blow out, two polls have different candidates ahead, etc... it just doesnt make any sense right now to try to figure it out.

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 3:41:55 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

despite being up against Karl Rove's Politics of Fear and Division ninjas.



Statements like that amaze me. It's like you're saying that the Democrats are driving around in circles in little clown cars by comparison... the poor little victims!

If those are our choices, then when going up against al-Qaida and Iran I'd rather have Republican ninjas in charge, rather than clowns who beat up on 80 year old Republican delegates, brownshirted clowns who disrespect opposition free speech, like the ones we saw at the convention last night.

If Obama really had the message we all wanted to hear, rather than the same socialist garbage we've been hearing from the Democrats he'd be 25 points ahead of the guy he's trying to label "McSame" wouldn't he.

Yes - Senator Obama is lackluster. His teleprompter goes down and he's every bit the fool that his friends on the left claim that George Bush is.

I'm looking forward to the debates, this is gonna be fun.







< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/5/2008 4:36:30 AM >

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 5:24:24 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

If Obama really had the message we all wanted to hear, rather than the same socialist garbage we've been hearing from the Democrats he'd be 25 points ahead of the guy he's trying to label "McSame" wouldn't he.



You're losing the plot if you think Democrats are socialists, they are in European terms centre right. I guess that is why we see Republicans as extreme right.

However, socialist garbage provides world class healthcare and education, giving more social mobility and a longer life, all of which the Republicans refuse to provide for all Americans under the pretext that America can't afford it while they send troops out on imperial jollies for the benefit corporations.

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:03:31 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		You're beyond Socialist, in my opinion, so of course you don't think that the American left is radical enough. You're way beyond anyone's definition of Socialist...

But besides that, Socialism provides nothing. It's an idea, and a bad one at that. Back on topic though, for a bit, there's another poll out that's interesting. It seems that Governor Palin is more popular than Obama, even with the media attacking her while idolizing Obama.

What fun!

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
You're losing the plot if you think Democrats are socialists, they are in European terms centre right. I guess that is why we see Republicans as extreme right.

However, socialist garbage provides world class healthcare and education, giving more social mobility and a longer life, all of which the Republicans refuse to provide for all Americans under the pretext that America can't afford it while they send troops out on imperial jollies for the benefit corporations.


< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/5/2008 6:04:23 AM >

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:09:01 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

But besides that, Socialism provides nothing. It's an idea, and a bad one at that. Back on topic though, for a bit, there's another poll out that's interesting. It seems that Governor Palin is more popular than Obama, even with the media attacking her while idolizing Obama.



You're so funny Sanity. Western Europe has more social mobility than the US and its citizens live longer than Americans and on the whole, Europe provides a better education to all its citizens than America. But hey, if you want to live in the land of the blind, that is your perogative.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/5/2008 6:10:02 AM >

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:12:41 AM   
Sanity


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Is this just a derail, or do you have anything on topic to share with us


quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

But besides that, Socialism provides nothing. It's an idea, and a bad one at that. Back on topic though, for a bit, there's another poll out that's interesting. It seems that Governor Palin is more popular than Obama, even with the media attacking her while idolizing Obama.



You're so funny Sanity. Western Europe has more social mobility than the US and its citizens live longer than Americans and on the whole, Europe provides a better education to all its citizens than America. But hey, if you want to live in the land of the blind, that is your perogative.


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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:14:47 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Is this just a derail, or do you have anything on topic to share with us



A topic about opinion polls is like a topic about the weather, it all depends on where you are.

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:16:33 AM   
Sanity


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Feel free not to join in then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

A topic about opinion polls is like a topic about the weather, it all depends on where you are.


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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:23:15 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Jesus, there we go again. Are some of you guys that insecure that you have to pull this card over and over again?

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:24:26 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Feel free not to join in then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

A topic about opinion polls is like a topic about the weather, it all depends on where you are.



I have noticed how desperate the Republicans are and they can't win a debating point without hypocracy or simply dimissing pertinent points.

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:27:32 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

"51% of voters according to Rasmussen say the media is intentionally trying to hurt Sarah Palin and only 35% believe the media coverage is fair." I keep reading this but have yet to see anything scathing or out of the normal realm of reporting. Am I missing something? If I am, where are all the negative press? The facts of the trooper thing...reads like a legitimate investigation. Her 17 year old daughter is pregnant....( My own daughter gave birth to My Grand Son out of wedlock at 22 yrs.old but , had the same effect on My family as it would any)...not that I care about that but, the Campaign released the information, she was once for earmarks and now is against them. She liked the bridge...now she dosen't....She's a politician they all move on issues(not a flip flop from a Republican?...according to some only Democrats do that)....Now, when she is on the front page of the Inquirer saying she once had Bigfoots lovechild....I'd say it is outrageous behavior, although I dare say, they have not been known to report many facts.


Too much, too fast is one thing.....when that happends (plus a few of the stories were false) it gives the perception of a smear and soon people begin to question the truth of every story that comes out.

Also some outlets went beyond the threshold for most people. Putting 3 stories just about Palin's daughter on the front page of the New York Times (Tuesday's edition) was excessive. And I believe if you took a poll most would consider Bristol's pregnancy to be a private matter and not relevant to the campaign (as both Obama and Biden have clearly stated).

I think also there have been sexist attacks by the media. Many pundits started questioning about how she would balance her time between family and being the Vice President. Most view that as a sexist arguement.

After this pick was announced on Friday it seemed the media just went nuts and ran every story they could find without researching the facts. The American people can see that, they dont think it is fair, and that's why they have a negative view of the media right now.


It was too much too fast because there was so much  to begin within.  I don't think I have ever seen a candidate for ANY office enter a race with so much baggage.  It has to make you wonder what McCain and his staff were thinking.  My only guess is there were serious mistakes made in a hurried decision.  The fact she is under investigation for impropriety in her office as Governor should have been enough in itself to disqualify her.   

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/5/2008 6:30:37 AM >

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:36:09 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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If you want to debate the merits of Socialism, start yourself a new thread. Intentional derails are a violation of collarchat TOS.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
I have noticed how desperate the Republicans are and they can't win a debating point without hypocracy or simply dimissing pertinent points.


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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:38:36 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Since you are on record repeatedly calling Obama a 'socialist' (which is untrue, incidentally) as if it were an insult, you're on a slippery slope there, Sanity.

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 6:50:03 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Debating or mentioning Obama's politics in a thread with Obama in the title can't be too much of a derail, really.

Trying to change the entire discussion over to  the merits of Socialism itself however?

That's a derail.

Hell, even this discussion of the attempted derail is becoming a derail. Quick, somebody say the word "poll" before we all get in trouble...


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Since you are on record repeatedly calling Obama a 'socialist' (which is untrue, incidentally) as if it were an insult, you're on a slippery slope there, Sanity.


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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 7:00:07 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Since you are on record repeatedly calling Obama a 'socialist' (which is untrue, incidentally) as if it were an insult, you're on a slippery slope there, Sanity.


It's not a question of is he a socialist or not; I don't give a flying duck's fuck if he is or isn't. It's a question of making the most of it in order to destroy his political career and keep him safely away from the White House.


Sound familiar

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2110188/mpage_4/key_flying%252Cduck/tm.htm#2114300

edited cause Sanity said we should stay on topic

and polls don't mean much to me.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 9/5/2008 7:01:20 AM >

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 7:08:20 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		It's your agenda as well? I thought you were fighting for truth and justice. Thanks for revealing what motivates you here. At least, you're not alone: shoot away.

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 7:18:04 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You're beyond Socialist, in my opinion, so of course you don't think that the American left is radical enough. You're way beyond anyone's definition of Socialist...

But besides that, Socialism provides nothing. It's an idea, and a bad one at that.



This may be off-topic, but then again maybe not.  You and one or two others have used Socialism as a smear against Obama and Democrats in general without really explaining the context.  I would be interested to hear what you define as Socialism and why you feel it is so negative as to be an insult. 

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RE: Latest polls show Obama opening huge lead - 9/5/2008 7:46:18 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Since you are on record repeatedly calling Obama a 'socialist' (which is untrue, incidentally) as if it were an insult, you're on a slippery slope there, Sanity.


It's not a question of is he a socialist or not; I don't give a flying duck's fuck if he is or isn't. It's a question of making the most of it in order to destroy his political career and keep him safely away from the White House.


Sound familiar

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2110188/mpage_4/key_flying%252Cduck/tm.htm#2114300


ohhhh, good one thishereboi!

Caught her in the act!

She's a partisan, pure and simple, with no interests in actually learning, discussing or educating.

Her only mission is one of personal and political destruction. Pure propaganda ... and this is admitted from her own mouth (fingers, whatever ...).

I had missed her earlier comment. Thank you for the link!

Firm

PS Obligatory "poll" comment ....

Thadius had the best evaluation of the polls, and why McCain will be the next President.

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