RE: i need help (Full Version)

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mistoferin -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 8:53:48 AM)

quote:

quote:

Abusive? What happened to consenting adults participating in whatever relationship dynamic they desire?

Thank you John, I think people need to be reminded of this.


I guess I am not exactly sure where out of this paragraph:
quote:

What are the problems? He disregards my safety. He lies to me, he sneaks around behind my back, he cheats(cheating as, he sleeps with some one and lies to me about it) on me, he doesnt work, he does absolultely nothing at all, he does not and can not pay his bills, he is harsh with my unmentionable (tho i think i have worked that out), he sleeps all day, he's on the computer all night. He uses others. Um, sexual interaction is at a nil with him, D/s goes stand still sometimes, he doesnt shower often. He has no motivation, no initiative. He's at war with MY family. He's at war with my daughter. The other day he threatened to smack me if i didnt drop my attitude and my unmetionable just to spite me, threw gritted teeth non the less and completely because he was pissed off.

that anyone could derive that there are two:
quote:

consenting adults participating in whatever relationship dynamic they desire?

Emphasis on the word consenting....unless lying and cheating have come to fall under the consensual umbrella while I wasn't looking.

I agree that we have to be careful with value judgements. But value judgements are nothing more than personal opinions....and that is exactly what you are asking for and should expect when you start a thread on a public message board and label it "i need help". I believe that everyone who has responded to this post has done so from their heart with no intent to do anything other than to respond to a plea for help. I also believe that the OP understands that the responses here are others opinions and that she needs to take from them what she finds useful and discard the rest....as should everyone who posts asking for help or advice on a message board.






Prunesquallor -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 8:55:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

god, you all are going to hate me now too huh.


No one is going to hate you. The reason you say that is because your self-esteem is at rock-bottom. Which, in turn, means that it is very difficult for you to make rational decisions.

I think everybody on here wishes the best for you. I know I do.




Prunesquallor -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 8:59:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Bottom line is whether or not she's happy, fulfilled and her needs are being met. Our value judgments reflect what is "right" for us. Only she knows what is "right" for her.



Well, yes, I can't argue with that. Do you think she sounds delerious with joy?




Tempestspet -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 9:09:15 AM)

You won't leave til you are ready. When you decide that this is bad for your kid, doesn't matter what we say.... you have to figure it out for yourself... you have to go.


There's a reason everyone before me has told you the same things that your friends and family have said. It's true. You have to stop and wonder when everyone has the same opinion..... if, just maybe, they are right. But again, you have to figure this out for yourself.

To be a master, isn't a degree, or generic learning you get in how to swing a flogger. It's learning and acheiving the goal of master over someone else. He hasn't mastered you yet, or you wouldn't be here with this problem.

It's comendable that you love him, and want to help. But you can't destroy yourself, and your child helping ANYONE else. You have to be first, even as a slave. And especially because of your daughter. Being a mother comes before slave, submissive, wife, girlfriend, friend.... you are mother first. Before anything else. But I know deep down...you know and believe this. I think you are just caught in a hard situation where you can't put it down and accept that there's nothing you can do. There's one thing you can do. That's help your kid.

She's being hurt, even though not physically from him. She is being hurt by both of you. She feels the tension, probably hears some amount of the fighting, talking,discusing (whatever you want to call it.) She knows that there's something wrong. Mostly, she's being taught, and set up to fail as an adult.... by the example the two of you are setting. I KNOW you do NOT want that. But sometimes we get all rung up trying to help someone.... that we lose sight of that.

The simple fact that he has threatened to "smack" the two of you is bad. If he's threatened it, one day it will come. Yes, it will.

I can apreciate you not wanting to give up riot girl. I do. But leaving a bad situation isn't giving up. It's helping out you and your daughter. And think of it this way... by getting out and not letting him continue this crap.... you very well may help him. You might just wake him up, and make him get help, or help himself. He won't have you there coddling him, helping him, or doing everything for him. He's a grown man, let him wipe his own ass. Put the dpends in his hands. Doing this, might make him stop acting like a depressed spoiled child, and force him into acting like a man.... and eventually your Master.

Sometimes, the best help we can give, is making/letting a person help themselves. They are the only ones, in the end, who can do that.

And I understand about Ds relationships and the dynamic. I have lived in one full time, RT...(however you want to say it)... for 15 yrs now. Same man. I've also watched others fall apart. Too many and for stupid reasons, but's another story...lol.

In the end riot girl, be careful. Think not with your heart but with your head. There's a reason absolutely everyone else has the same opinion. And I now that your family can make you crazy, be mean etc... But they are your family. In the end, they will help you, even though they make you crazy. Likely you are scaring them right now. It's still hard for you, nothing is going to make it easier... I'm sorry for that. But you can do it!!..smiles.. write me anytime. Or if you need call. Just let me know if you want my number.

Sincerely,
Tempest's pet
jennifer




Rover -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 9:09:35 AM)

To paraphrase Jack Rinella.... "your continued presence constitutes consent".

John




Rover -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 9:18:17 AM)

I might be tempted to reply with a standard online assertion... that a slave's pleasure is immaterial. But I won't.

On the other hand, I will make several other observations:

1. No one derives "joy" from their relationships at all times. Surely you would not advise them that each "joyless" period is cause for dissolution of the relationship.

2. Many people remain in "joyless" relationships for a myriad of reasons. Most often cited reason is "for the children", but there are many others that, while we may not agree, they find "compelling".

3. In the context of power exchange relationships, there are slaves that desire "joyless" relationships in order to validate their service (ie: they are not "selfishly" serving for their own pleasure). They're rare, I agree. But they do exist. Edited to note that while such "joyless" M/s relationships exist, that is not to imply that such relationships do not have expectations, limits, rights, etc.

Just a few random thoughts in reply.

John





KatyLied -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 10:01:01 AM)

quote:

He is an awesome person.


?




Prunesquallor -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 10:10:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I might be tempted to reply with a standard online assertion... that a slave's pleasure is immaterial. But I won't.





Well, you did. :)

There might be slaves who crave to be miserable, but I would suggest that is the realm of mental illness more than BDSM. Similar to this, but with a crucial difference, there are slaves who gain fulfilment from harsh conditions, but clearly RiotGirl is not one of those. Any relationship between two people, whether vanilla or BDSM should be fulfilling on at least one level to both parties, and if it is not, then there is something seriously wrong.

A slave should never be in a position where they find themselves in an intolerable situation - because there is always one way out. To return their collar.

BDSM in my opinion *never* equals abuse.




Phoenxx -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 10:43:02 AM)

Hi Riot Girl,
Depression and abuse are very scary. The worse thing is that he may well be an awesome man, but when the depression hits it's bad. My sweet fawn is an amazing person, as long as she stays on her medication. I took her to the doctor and explained what was happening and then walked out of the room. About an hour later she came out feeling much better. Her talking to the doctor and realizing that the feelings she had were apart from her and not a part of her lifted a great weight.
At the worst she was ready to drive a car off a bridge. She would freak out on the kids and on me. Then feel horrible about it.
Now, while she still has blue moods, they are normal and very understandable.
However, he will not get help, there is not much you can do. It’s like an alcoholic that will not admit it or deal with it. Eventually someone will get hurt, and hurt bad.
You said that your girl was waking up nightly and has been doing that since forever? If this has been only since the start of your relationship, you need to get that checked out. If it started BEFORE, then you need to have it checked out even more!!!!!
I have a friend who suffers from schizophrenia. Because of the doctor’s fucking with his medication and not telling him fully what they had done, he went on a trip with a relative. Sad to say, the relative did not return. While it is not his fault, he lives with that burden. A friend who suffered from depression, well I feel I failed him. I felt the urge to call him and didn’t. He pulled out a rope and hung himself with it. I had helped him before, but did not insist enough that he go to a professional. Even though it was over 20 years ago I still feel a lot of guilt. Please don’t do that to yourself.
Hugs and prayers
Tony and sue




OsideGirl -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 12:32:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i've been with him for over a year, technically i suppose i am a sub, but i have slave status with him. i Can not tell him what to do, i can not tell him no, and sometimes there is just plain no choices about things.

What are the problems? He disregards my safety. He lies to me, he sneaks around behind my back, he cheats(cheating as, he sleeps with some one and lies to me about it)


As far as I'm concerned, D/s is a contract. When one participant breaks the rules of that contract, then the contract is null and void. Lying and cheating breaks the rules. So, yes, in this case you can tell him because he's really not your Dominant anymore.

You have every right to be angry and jealous because of what he's done.

He's grinding you down and you're allowing it by staying and not saying anything. You're entitled to be content and happy. I know it's difficult, but you really need to make a list of what you need from a relationship and then ask yourself if you're getting it. If not, it's probably time to move on.




Webmaster60 -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 1:14:50 PM)

quote:

i need help, because my Master has fallen into this hole and i cant seem to drag him out of it.


I hear what everyone else has said.. I've a little bit different slant. He apparently was once a man you respected. I'll assume this because somethign caused you to begin this. If the assumption holds true, then several questions need be asked:
When did this start?
Where there dynamics involved WHEN it started?
Can these dynamics be changed?
Lastly... Does he WANT help?

If he doesn't see a problem, or doesn't want help.. Cut line and run like hell. Besides, losing you MAY be the motivating wake up call..

If he DOES see the problem, and wants help.. Be supportive and get it for him. SOunds like he's clinically depressed.. WIth some therapy to identify the PROBLEM (root) and some happy drugs to assist in facilitating a better frame of mind TO change.. Who knows?

Bottom line.. WHen is it enough? You draw the line at physical abuse.. ok.. is that where the line NEEDS to be? And you unmentionable (treading carefully here), what life, and emotional foundation are we making here for them?

Have him shit, or YOU get off the pot. Put some TIMELINES down, and some MEASURABLE goals/standards.. see if he returns to the man he was.




candystripper -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 3:14:25 PM)

quote:

JUST for the record this is all plain crazy. Its crazy i'm saying this and its crazy what you all are saying. i'm just getting to the end of my line of BS i can take, i suppose.

RiotGirl


THIS is what blisters my ass about you..and i'm not holding my tongue. You have repeatedly come to the boards with Op posts crying out for help, describing abusive sits you and your kid are in, then said (1) i already knew what all of you would say and (2) i am sick of the BS you all are saying.

Do you think this advice is free? Each one of us composed our thoughts and probably resurrected some bad memories -- i know i sure did -- in order to help you in distress. If you are making this shit up, you're a little bit of an emotional vampire. If you're not, then you're a sad case.

You know what? At some point i just have to wander off to the daisy farm..i have no freaking idea if anything you say is true...you are in an abusive situation if it is...you cannot admit you are dragging a helpless child through a shitstorm...i'm completely, utterly done. For her sake, i hope you just enjoy having us on from time to time...but i'm not playing this game anymore.

i really don't give f**k all if anyone thinks i am being judgmental; crimney, the Op post is entitled "i need HELP!"

candystripper




Tempestspet -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 3:31:26 PM)

Nope, candystripper.... you are fine in everything you've said...smiles... ever think you'd hear that from me?

lol
Actually, I'd been wondering when this would happen. Some people are completely and thoroughly addicted to drama. Period.

Take care everyone.

Tempest's pet
jennifer




candystripper -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 3:34:39 PM)

quote:

Nope, candystripper.... you are fine in everything you've said...smiles... ever think you'd hear that from me?

lol
Actually, I'd been wondering when this would happen. Some people are completely and thoroughly addicted to drama. Period.

Take care everyone.

Tempest's pet
jennifer


Let's go malling and then get a bit drunky, whadda ya say?

candystripper




MHOO314 -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 4:00:58 PM)

The bottom line is there is a child involved in the drama, and that is not consensual, that is neglect and endangerment pure and simple and that is not acceptable IMHO.




Sensualips -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 4:04:48 PM)

A friend of mine recently reminded me of an old story that also applies here.

Once a man slipped into a hole and he could not get out. He cried and pleaded for help. A minister walked by and told him that if he believed, faith would lift him out. A psychiatrist walked by and told him he needed to accept his situation and learn to cope with being in the hole. A Republican walked by and reminded him it was his fault he fell into the hole in the first place. A Democrat walked by and was moved to tears over the man's plight, but was unable to drag or pull him out.

Finally a friend walked by and saw the man. He immediately jumped into the hole. "Great," said the man with disgust. "Now we are both stuck!" His friend smiled. "Ahh, but I have been here before," he said, taking the man's hand. "And I know the way out."

You seem to have some friends ready to jump in the hole with you. There are always more options than you think there are, more than one way out. But it is up to you to choose stay in the hole, try and climb out in your own time in your own way, or follow the lead of someone that has been there before.

And that concludes the overly simplified symbolic allegorical tale portion of our posting evening.







domtimothy46176 -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 7:29:38 PM)

I hope everything works out okay. You have my IM so you know how to get in touch with us if you need to.
Be well,
Timothy




bottominwa -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 8:19:13 PM)

Ok I could be completely out in left field...because I'm getting old girls...and I am over worked and alone too much...but isn't this the same girl that was supposably pregnant by a soldier last year or something..etc?
And then she was dealing with the he was going to be deployed crap etc?

I remember that because...ya know there aren't too many of us in that situation.

So...I am with you candy I can't keep things straight..here.

If this is the same Master who was deployed etc...he could be suffering from PTSD or acute battle fatigue etc...hence the no workie et all....

Somebody straighten me out on this one...I can't keep up with her.

sabrina King




luvdragonx -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 9:09:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Webmaster60

quote:

i need help, because my Master has fallen into this hole and i cant seem to drag him out of it.


I hear what everyone else has said.. I've a little bit different slant. He apparently was once a man you respected. I'll assume this because somethign caused you to begin this. If the assumption holds true, then several questions need be asked:
When did this start?
Where there dynamics involved WHEN it started?
Can these dynamics be changed?
Lastly... Does he WANT help?

If he doesn't see a problem, or doesn't want help.. Cut line and run like hell. Besides, losing you MAY be the motivating wake up call..

If he DOES see the problem, and wants help.. Be supportive and get it for him. SOunds like he's clinically depressed.. WIth some therapy to identify the PROBLEM (root) and some happy drugs to assist in facilitating a better frame of mind TO change.. Who knows?

Bottom line.. WHen is it enough? You draw the line at physical abuse.. ok.. is that where the line NEEDS to be? And you unmentionable (treading carefully here), what life, and emotional foundation are we making here for them?

Have him shit, or YOU get off the pot. Put some TIMELINES down, and some MEASURABLE goals/standards.. see if he returns to the man he was.




In complete agreement with you.

Riot,

We went through something very similar to what you describe. It's too lengthy to get into here. I'd be more than willing to swap email/talk about this if you want.




maybemaybenot -> RE: i need help (11/28/2005 10:39:44 PM)

Riotgirl:

Colette Dowling wrote the following:

Relationships are like a dance, with visable energy racing back and forth between the partners. Some relationships are the slow, dark dance of death."

The question you need to ask yourself is:

How much do you want to bleed ?

The only thing you have the power to change is yourself. It is rather egotistical to think you are omnipotent enough to re create another person. He is what is in front of your eyes. And from your accounts he is quite content with how he chooses to live his life.
It should speak volumes to you that he can lazy about, sleeping, playing on the computer, out fiddling about with whomever etc. Yet you are in a state of turmoil.
From your own accounts he is doing fine and dandy, you are the one who has the problem.

So instead of trying to fix him, why don't you begin fixing your own problems. That is alot harder to do than tailspinning in fruiltess attempts to fix some one who could not care less. It's called personal responsibility. It means you have to look at yourself and admit you have made bad decisions and need to change yourself. It's ohhh so much easier to complain that some one else needs to change to make you happy, than to take the steps to make yourself happy.

Abusive? Yes, absolutely this is an abusive situation. Unfortunately you will choose not to see it and defend it. And the cycle will continue. Abusive behavior with short periods of remission..... just long enough for you to catch your breath, before the next emotional battering or verbal threats. As others have said, you have put your own flesh and blood in an abusive situation also. He abuses you, you abuse your child by housing her in an unsafe atmosphere. There in lies the pity.. You are an adult and free to make your own decisions.. your poor child has no choice and is at your mercy.

You say you would leave if he ever hit this child.. hmmm.. he has already threatened to, I guess you need to actually have the child harmed before you believe him.

A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse, my dear.

maybemaybenot






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