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Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:04:14 AM

missturbation

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I love honesty from people, i value it very highly. I love brutal honesty from my Sir and my close friends, i value that very much. However brutal honesty from people who don't know doesn't always sit to well with me. Sometimes it has been extremely helpful and i have learnt from it, grown from it. Sometimes it has just been hurtful for the sake of being hurtful and in my opinion 'just too much'.
I noticed in another thread where we have been derailing it with discussions of insults, opinions, miscommunication etc that when it came to being truthful a lot of the stuff i found 'just too much' was posted by D types. A lot of the gentler more thoughtful criticism was posted by s types.
Now i know that as an s type i am capable of honesty, brutal honesty and just too much. I also recognise that in my posting i use all three. I'm as guilty as the next person of being plain insulting.
Even so though i have got to wondering if some of the consistency i see of D types being brutal to the point of too much and S types tending to be a lot gentler is a D type / s type thing?

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:08:46 AM

RCdc

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Oh good god misst... I have seen s-types be BRUTAL. Have you been on the s-forum recently?
Honestly (seeing as we are talking about it) I don't really care for other peoples honesty when they show inconsistancy elsewhere. And that is the majr issue for me in that other thread.
But that's just me.
So nah - I don't see Dominants being more brutally honest than s-types. I do see a huge cutural difference however.

the.dark.

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:12:08 AM

missturbation

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quote:

Oh good god misst... I have seen s-types be BRUTAL. Have you been on the s-forum recently?

I rarely go on there. All the subbies scare me lol.

quote:

So nah - I don't see Dominants being more brutally honest than s-types. I do see a huge cutural difference however.

I agree with the cultural difference most definately.

I however think that maybe D types being the D type can make them more dominant about being honest. If that makes sense.

Actually on the flip side i have never come across a Dom prepared to admit he lied. Just my personal experience but it's true. Each and every one of them has pressed the important of honesty in a very 'Domly' manner too. *shrugs*

< Message edited by missturbation -- 10/13/2008 10:15:25 AM >

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:15:19 AM

leadership527

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Personally, in my experience when someone says "brutally honest", it is normally the precursor to throwing any sense of empathy, kindness, or fair play to the winds. It is perfectly possible to say even difficult truths to someone without being brutal about it. Conveniently enough, when you avoid the whole "brutal" thing, it also means there's a lot less foot that needs to be removed from mouth when it turns out my truth wasn't the truth.

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:15:33 AM

KnightofMists

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mmmmmmm is it a D thing and and S thing... what about a Gender thing? or many other sterotypical boxes we can dream up.

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:17:38 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Personally, in my experience when someone says "brutally honest", it is normally the precursor to throwing any sense of empathy, kindness, or fair play to the winds. It is perfectly possible to say even difficult truths to someone without being brutal about it. Conveniently enough, when you avoid the whole "brutal" thing, it also means there's a lot less foot that needs to be removed from mouth when it turns out my truth wasn't the truth.

Do you not think there is a place for brutal honesty though? For example when being honest just isn't getting through.
To be honest the kind of brutal honesty you are talking about would for me fit into the just too much category.

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:18:47 AM

SimplyMichael

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While there is no need to be truly brutal, truth is often hard enough to hear and often the very last thing someone wants. Challenge some one's cherished illusions and watch the claws come out. I am on another board and dared to state that the relationships we see in the scene today TEND in the broad scheme of things to be healthier than they "used" to be. OH MY FUCKING GOD what a bunch of whiny "old guard" and "classically trained" babies, you would think I snuck in and raped someone.

Besides, Mod 11 doesn't let much real brutality go on, imagine if us adults were actually allowed to discuss Gor rather than it having its own private playpen staffed with lots of yardmonitors?

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:19:20 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

mmmmmmm is it a D thing and and S thing... what about a Gender thing? or many other sterotypical boxes we can dream up.

There was no intent of being stereotypical here at all.
I know it is not a gender thing, many women D/s and nilla i know are capable of brutal honesty and just too much myself included.

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:19:51 AM

VampiresLair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
However brutal honesty from people who don't know doesn't always sit to well with me.
Even so though i have got to wondering if some of the consistency i see of D types being brutal to the point of too much and S types tending to be a lot gentler is a D type / s type thing?

I find it hard to believe that a stranger can be brutally HONEST about anything beyond purely physical observations. They dont know you or a situation nearly well enough for that.
I do notice that dominants tend to take the D they gave themselves as carte blanche to be assholes and say whatever they please. Brutal, yes, but not necessarily aything resembling honest. Brutally opinionated, perhaps. I have no, however, notices subs being more soft-handed in these things. It goes strictly on a pseron to person basis. Thsoe who have heard the same advice they are giving and know how much it can hurt are softer about it. Those who want nothing mroe than to enjoy watching someone spin in the wind, are harsh.
Brutal honesty doesnt usually help much unless it is being stated after the more level headed entreaties have failed.

DV

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:19:52 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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I can't speak for other D-types. What I can say is that, as a d-type, I feel absolutely no compunctions about making myself understood, and very little discomfort in maintaining a very high level of bluntness/directness and even that tendency to bossiness. I do try to have a little bit of sensitivity, but on occasion, even my rather generous level of patience (at least compared to other members of our household) is tried, and I come out with something that really causes folks to step back a pace. I'd be less than honest myself if I didn't say that I really sort of like that reaction when it happens -- because then it's pretty clear to me that there was no chance misunderstanding of my position on the matter

.

Calla Firestorm

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 10/13/2008 10:21:16 AM >

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:20:50 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

While there is no need to be truly brutal, truth is often hard enough to hear and often the very last thing someone wants. Challenge some one's cherished illusions and watch the claws come out. I am on another board and dared to state that the relationships we see in the scene today TEND in the broad scheme of things to be healthier than they "used" to be. OH MY FUCKING GOD what a bunch of whiny "old guard" and "classically trained" babies, you would think I snuck in and raped someone.

Besides, Mod 11 doesn't let much real brutality go on, imagine if us adults were actually allowed to discuss Gor rather than it having its own private playpen staffed with lots of yardmonitors?

The thought of mod 11 often stops me in my tracks.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 11

RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:21:50 AM

MistressOfGa

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Hi Misst,
I have to agree with thedark. on this one. I have had subs who have been so honest in their opinions of me to the point of my feeling like an emotional punching bag. They weren't in my life for long. There is a point where honesty runs into the brutality wall, and frankly I have found that some subs do not know where that wall is. I do. When a sub is so honest about his/her feelings that it actually emotionally hurts the person that they are being honest to, then a line has to be drawn. If not for the sake of the sub, but the welfare of their D's. I can't see how any of it can be healthy in the long run. We are all adults and we do know the impact our words can have on people. I don't care if it is on a message forum or face to face. And don't tell me that I have to have thicker skin, if someone cares about me, then they should care as to how the words coming from their mouths will effect me. I choose my words before blurting them out, for this very reason.

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:23:03 AM

MadRabbit

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I tend to see an overwhelming negative response to my direct communication style on the Internet that isn't normally there in real life.

On examination, I concluded that the main difference is the absence of my killer smile and general warmth that goes a long way in softening my blows.

In both contexts, I've found it to be in my best interest to take a "not what I say, but how I say it" revision to my communication style that's still and probably always will be a work in progress. Of course, in some contexts, no matter how elegant I try to be, people still read things with a filter on and when they have decided I am saying X and not Y, there is nothing that will change that. Such in life.

I got a lot of practice with this with one girl I dated for awhile where I had to spend a lot of time thinking about how I said something for the sake of communication. She was incredibly sensitive and anything really direct and right to the point without any polish would offend her. In a lot of cases, I would even make her cry, leaving me feeling like an asshole and wondering what the hell I said exactly to do so! But it was a big wake up call to the fact that I needed to improve my sensitivity and empathy level.

But all in all, I would say "brutal honesty", at least America tends to get categorized as "bad people skills".

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 10/13/2008 10:24:40 AM >

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:24:45 AM

JustDarkness

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what is the difference between honesty and brutal honesty?
( at all)

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 10/13/2008 10:25:43 AM >

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:29:10 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
There was no intent of being stereotypical here at all.

sometimes results are not what is intended... but they are the results none the less.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:30:00 AM

missturbation

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quote:

Brutal honesty doesnt usually help much unless it is being stated after the more level headed entreaties have failed.

Agreed.

quote:

And don't tell me that I have to have thicker skin, if someone cares about me, then they should care as to how the words coming from their mouths will effect me. I choose my words before blurting them out, for this very reason.

Don't worry i won't I agree.

quote:

But all in all, I would say "brutal honesty", at least America tends to get categorized as "bad people skills".

And yet in my opinion SOME of the americans do brutal honesty so well. Go figure.

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:30:06 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I however think that maybe D types being the D type can make them more dominant about being honest. If that makes sense.

Actually on the flip side i have never come across a Dom prepared to admit he lied. Just my personal experience but it's true. Each and every one of them has pressed the important of honesty in a very 'Domly' manner too. *shrugs*

I find it is ego. Certain dominants think that because they are dominant and that they might occasionally post a thread about how 'emotional' they can be, or the mistakes that they made in the past, that is admitting to flaws. That and as well that being dominant gives them the excuse to be an asshole, but if they admit to being an asshole, then that is ok as well. But it's not.

S-types don't have to posture their 'emotions' so it's on a different level.

The only time I take on board 'brutal honesty' is when the person - whatever the orientation - shows a degree of growth and learning. No one can dish out brutal honesty if they can't be honest with themself.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:31:27 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
There was no intent of being stereotypical here at all.

sometimes results are not what is intended... but they are the results none the less.

Then i can only apologise.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 18

RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:31:56 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

what is the difference between honesty and brutal honesty?
( at all)

Nothing, just the amount of words.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 10/13/2008 10:32:42 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

what is the difference between honesty and brutal honesty?
( at all)

I think Leadership stated it well when he said this about Brutal Honesty.... "it is normally the precursor to throwing any sense of empathy, kindness, or fair play to the winds." I think most often Brutal Honesty is very much without regard to those involved and completely focused on what one person "perceives" as the Truth!... Just a note... one perception doesn't make it accurate or truthful except for the person saying.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 10/13/2008 10:33:26 AM >

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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