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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/20/2008 11:37:36 PM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz
I have yet to figure out why 'Lifestyle' people get so pissy at pro's. I have never actually had a 'nillar' get upset, but the lifestyle people almost pee themselves over this topic. Nillars think it's awesome, and demand stories and want to see the toys.


Well, sure. They're tourists, everything is novel and taboo. 

Reckon it's like the difference between a small-time band playing bars, and a studio musician recording radio ads for used car lots. The tools are the same, but one gets to pay the mortgage and one gets to cop 'tude.  Everybody picks their choices.

And I work in the telecom industry- I don't have to explain why I've chosen such a morally ambiguous career choice- I just lie


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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/20/2008 11:47:14 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		uhhhh nobody was asking tho!  I dont think most ppl lwere  acting "pissy" I was stating what pro means.  My point was kinda simple.  Pro dom "think" they have a image problem.  What they don't realize most ppl could give a shit. 

Personally I kinda smile when ppl label it as a profession.  As it's self proclaimed title ie. there is no "formal accredited training"   using your engineer example.  "I'm a engineer..."  Where did you go to school?  Oh I dont have any accredited training I just call myself one. 

Perhaps instead of pissy accusations you could uhhh stop being so defensive.  BadOne

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 1:56:51 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:

I have a feeling that an Engineer would explain his profession when asked as well. Just sayinnnnnn.... ^_^


LOl I am an engineer..and have a title I can put before my name. It is a recoqnized title in Europe, so people can recoqnize our skill and level..with out asking.
But still it says just that I past the tests at school..perhaps with minimal grates...kinda sucking at it

But I admit...some profiels of Pro-Dommes sound very proffesional and the seem to know what is wanted and what they can offer.

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 3:55:00 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		People ask, I tell. I'm not defensive, until people get offensive... but even then usually it's just best to ignore them.

Hey, if the cops don't have a problem with what I do, then I'll keep doing it, until I nab that job that I REALLY want... and I will use my 'Morally Ambiguous job" to pay my way though school to get to it. 

And trust me SB, I don't have an image problem until I start talking to the lifestyle folks, that's when the snotty attitudes start to pop up.

"O... you're a model...?"
"And a pro-switch."
"Ooo... well we don't really approve of that here....."




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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 4:38:12 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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quote:

I have yet to figure out why 'Lifestyle' people get so pissy at pro's. I have never actually had a 'nillar' get upset, but the lifestyle people almost pee themselves over this topic. Nillars think it's awesome, and demand stories and want to see the toys.


I'm beginning to wonder if there is an element of jealousy.
Not one person that has posted here has really had a solid reason for objection.
Just a thought


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Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 5:31:52 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:


I have yet to figure out why 'Lifestyle' people get so pissy at pro's. I have never actually had a 'nillar' get upset, but the lifestyle people almost pee themselves over this topic. Nillars think it's awesome, and demand stories and want to see the toys.


I'm beginning to wonder if there is an element of jealousy.
Not one person that has posted here has really had a solid reason for objection.
Just a thought


Several thoughts came to mind as I read this...
 
1.  I don't believe that "nillars" love pros when they pretty much condemn all of BDSM.  It just doesn't make sense.
 
2.  I believe lots of folks have been conditioned to believe that a profit motive automatically makes something "bad".  This type of thinking has been advanced by political parties exploiting class envy for decades, in the sterile halls of universites (with huge endowments and well compensated professors), and is pervasive throughout much of society.  Is it any wonder that leather folk often speak ill of events that generate a profit, BDSM websites or magazines that generate a profit, or individuals that may generate a profit from their BDSM interests?  Where do all these people work... for non-profit charities and the government????
 
John

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 5:36:21 AM   
missturbation


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From: another planet
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quote:

 I believe lots of folks have been conditioned to believe that a profit motive automatically makes something "bad". 

 
My motive for running a pub is profit, to earn money. Does that mean most people would think that was bad?
 
 

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 5:51:10 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

 I believe lots of folks have been conditioned to believe that a profit motive automatically makes something "bad". 

 
My motive for running a pub is profit, to earn money. Does that mean most people would think that was bad?


To be fair, I said "lots" not "most".  And I do think that if you were to share your profit margin on a pint with your customers, a sizeable number of them would find that percentage to be objectionable. 
 
John

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 5:57:48 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Possibly so. However my job does not create the uproar that pro domming or subbing does. Personally i think its an uproar over nothing and as i said before i can only put it down to jealousy as there seems to be no other valid or solid reasons to object.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 6:12:48 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Well, class envy / denigration of the profit motive is probably a form of jealousy, or at least related.  Given that I typically attend quite a few events each year, I hear complaints about event organizers (or dungeon owners) making a profit quite frequently. 
 
People need to understand that the world runs on profits.  Without a profit, there are no jobs.
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 6:22:04 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		Do we have a clue how many of the Pro-Doms are really serious and seeing this as a job?
I mean on CM's frontpage....there seem so many lately.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 7:46:34 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover


Several thoughts came to mind as I read this...
 
1.  I don't believe that "nillars" love pros when they pretty much condemn all of BDSM.  It just doesn't make sense.

Way to lump everyone in one catagory. I have never, ever had someone, besides lifestyle folks react with OMG EW! Then again, I've not told my mother... but I think that's different somehow.  Currently, I'm pretty sure 99% of the people that work at my other job know what I do, including the owner, who is a narcotics cop.

So, I'm pretty sure most people don't condem all of BDSM, some people are just as open minded as you think you are.
 
2.  I believe lots of folks have been conditioned to believe that a profit motive automatically makes something "bad".  This type of thinking has been advanced by political parties exploiting class envy for decades, in the sterile halls of universites (with huge endowments and well compensated professors), and is pervasive throughout much of society.  Is it any wonder that leather folk often speak ill of events that generate a profit, BDSM websites or magazines that generate a profit, or individuals that may generate a profit from their BDSM interests?  Where do all these people work... for non-profit charities and the government????

Interesting point, and one I've yet to figure out
 
John


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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 8:31:02 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover


Several thoughts came to mind as I read this...
 
1.  I don't believe that "nillars" love pros when they pretty much condemn all of BDSM.  It just doesn't make sense.


Way to lump everyone in one catagory. I have never, ever had someone, besides lifestyle folks react with OMG EW! Then again, I've not told my mother... but I think that's different somehow.  Currently, I'm pretty sure 99% of the people that work at my other job know what I do, including the owner, who is a narcotics cop.

So, I'm pretty sure most people don't condem all of BDSM, some people are just as open minded as you think you are. 

 
Honestly, the water in Atlanta must be different than it is elsewhere.  Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many folks engaged in BDSM who are concerned about their privacy.  And there wouldn't be other folks who put pressure on the venues that rent us space for our events.  Or the folks who want to categorize WIITWD as hate, misogyny, abuse, mental illness and and countless other things.  Or the folks who condemn us all to hell.  In spite of the water shortage in the south, there seems to be something special in the water around Atlanta.  Someone should bottle that so we can share it with the rest of the country.
 
And if you're going to condemn me for having an opinion different than your own, then I suggest you look in the mirror before you begin questioning how open minded anyone might be, or thinks they are.
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 8:39:10 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		I see more Pros starting threads here about how bad their reputation is in the so called community than I see people starting threads about Pros. There seems to be an element of all publicity is good publicity about it all.

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 9:11:11 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		mm guess that marketing trick works for everything
But it interesting though to discuss with Pro-Dommes..instead of just seeing their profile.
Now we hear their side also

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 3:24:10 PM   
DontUDare


Posts: 23
Joined: 10/13/2008
Status: offline 		If you look at the post before, I was simply following the flow of the conversation, but if you feel you need to get all exited about it, feel free.

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 3:48:51 PM   
masterforRT


Posts: 176
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline 		Here in Los Angeles, a husband recently turned in his Pro Domme wife. The police raided their home and found a dungeon in the basement. Even though she stated that no sex took place there, she was still charged with prostitution and CPS took her kids away!
 
It was on the 6 PM news on all the local stations-which means that she will ultimately be judged in the court of public opinion rather then a court of law.

To say her life is ruined would be a major understatement!
 
I think that this illustrates the bigger problem-it's not what we think about each other-it's what society thinks of us!

Also, you have to assume that at least some out here are are law enforcement, looking for another arrest notch on their gun!
 
The phrase 'be careful'-especially if you are an inexperienced pro is self explanatory.

 
 

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 4:07:49 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterforRT

Here in Los Angeles, a husband recently turned in his Pro Domme wife. The police raided their home and found a dungeon in the basement. Even though she stated that no sex took place there,

The phrase 'be careful'-especially if you are an inexperienced pro is self explanatory.



Wouldn't you to deny it.  It's  election season and they want to appear to be tuff on crime.  I wonder how the arrestee feels about this statement.  There seems to be an element of all publicity is good publicity about it all

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 10/21/2008 4:10:26 PM >

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 8:05:52 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I think a lot of the flak comes from the fact that it isn't domination, it is service topping. The bottom decides what he wants done and the top follows that script or doesn't get any clients. Where's the domination in that? If the person making the decisions is the bottom, then he is the dominant in the relationship.

Those of us who are in this for the power exchange find this upsetting frequently.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/21/2008 8:44:46 PM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I think a lot of the flak comes from the fact that it isn't domination, it is service topping. The bottom decides what he wants done and the top follows that script or doesn't get any clients. Where's the domination in that? If the person making the decisions is the bottom, then he is the dominant in the relationship.

Those of us who are in this for the power exchange find this upsetting frequently.


As far as I'm concerned, you've nailed it on the head.  I've talked to many submissive men who have gone to pros, and every one of them said that it didn't really feel like domination; they were just going to get their kink met.  Of course, a lot of pros will go to no end to try to justify how it really is domination, but that just takes us back to the old "pig in lipstick" thing.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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