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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 2:11:57 PM

CruelDesires

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Money in exchange for sexual pleasure from one human being to another human being is selling sex. Yes. To me it is just another form of prostitution. No. I do not believe that dildo makers and impact toy makers are in some way shape or form are prostituting themselves. That would be also like saying that gunmakers and knife makers are murderers if something they crafted killed someone.

C-D

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 2:13:33 PM

Venatrix

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

C-D, you say that "money in exchange for kink still equals prostitution for many people." I am wondering if this is also your feelings and if so, would this also apply to people who craft kink toys for sale?

That doesn't count, bear. Everyone knows that toys are considered artwork.

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 2:17:40 PM

PatentLeatherMdm

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have you looked at your bills lately? everything costs!

I'm not sure how long its been since you've taken someone out on a date, or whether your sub comes hungry and willing, but that would be contributing to their well-being (paying) for the pleasure of their company.

this is such a tired tirade!

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 2:22:37 PM

beargonewild

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Thanks for your reply. I had read that statement and took it another step further and wanted your opinion based upon your feelings regarding Pro Domination. Thanks again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

C-D, you say that "money in exchange for kink still equals prostitution for many people." I am wondering if this is also your feelings and if so, would this also apply to people who craft kink toys for sale?

That doesn't count, bear. Everyone knows that toys are considered artwork.

Good point Venatrix, thanks!

I know this topic is a sensitive issue with many people and my motives for asking questions is to understand different POVs from people and to better understand an opinion when it quite differs from my own.

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 2:29:08 PM

CruelDesires

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Again, what people do behind closed doors to make a living is their business. I do not care and actually do respect some who make a living selling sexual pleasure to others. I have more respect for the ones who outright admit it and have no qualms with telling it like it is.

C-D

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 5:21:55 PM

housemouse61

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i guess i missed something in the original post..i didn't realize this was a discussion of whether or not being a pro Domme equated to prostitution. i read it more as a question of why being one is looked upon negatively by other BDSMers.

Typically, in legalese, anything that involves sex, sexual service or sexual gratification for a fee is lumped into the "sex industry" category. This category includes everything from prostitution to the operation of adult toy stores and titty bars. Penetration is not required. Comparing the services of a baker, plumber or other tradesman (including the makers of the toys in those adult stores) is rather like comparing apples to oranges. There is no realistic comparison because bakers, plumbers and the like are providing a product or service for a fee that does not involve anything sexual. People who partake in the services offered by a pro Domme (or even a pro submissive) are, at the least, receiving some sort of sexual gratification via those services for a price. Therefore, being a pro Domme or pro submissive most definitely falls under the sex industry category, which, as i stated earlier includes prostitution. And because of the sexual gratification for a fee aspect makes offering those services a form of prostitution, at the very least. By today's standards and laws, there is simply no way of getting around that fact. Call a rose by any other name and it still smells like and looks like a rose.

Like Master, i have no qualms with anyone making their living in this manner. But, attempts to sugar coat or somehow disguise what it is that one does as a pro-Domme or pro-submissive seem to be futile and self-deluding.

Peace favor and blessed be,

nikki
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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 6:27:00 PM

OneMoreWaste

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Okay, my Value Theory of Submission went over like a lead balloon. I thought of another line of reasoning. Y'all can hold your applause till the end.

When you talk about plumbers and dentists and all the other professions that people *don't* cast judgement on, you exemplify a major reason why Pros face hostility. They take something that's very intimate and personal to some people and commoditize it. Instead of being a special connection and exchange of energy between two people, it's a job, like telemarketing or selling used cars, but the uniform is better. Seeing something that one values being treated that way can bring a very emotional response.

Also, another reason why some male subs are particularly resentful of Pro Dommes. It's my perception (from quite a few sources in addition to CM) that there are relatively few Pro Dommes that have submissive male partners. I know of several who have submissive female live-ins, quite a few who are either single or in vanilla relationships, even some that are subs when they're off the clock. So, while this kind of dynamic appeals to one subset of malesubs, to others, it's a big "fuck you", and leads to the accusations of fakitude.

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 7:18:20 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

When you talk about plumbers and dentists and all the other professions that people *don't* cast judgement on, you exemplify a major reason why Pros face hostility.

You mean like lawyers?

quote:

Also, another reason why some male subs are particularly resentful of Pro Dommes. It's my perception (from quite a few sources in addition to CM) that there are relatively few Pro Dommes that have submissive male partners. I know of several who have submissive female live-ins, quite a few who are either single or in vanilla relationships, even some that are subs when they're off the clock. So, while this kind of dynamic appeals to one subset of malesubs, to others, it's a big "fuck you", and leads to the accusations of fakitude.

They're not "dominating" their clients in the general usage of the term. They're Topping. One can Top no matter what their role in a relationship dynamic, or sexual orientation. And there is nothing "fake" about Topping.

A client can only become disenchanted if they expect more than topping. Say, actual domination. But then, the fantasy is on them.

John

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 7:36:39 PM

catize

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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

When you talk about plumbers and dentists and all the other professions that people *don't* cast judgement on, you exemplify a major reason why Pros face hostility.

You mean like lawyers?

Or gynecologists? Proctologists?

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 8:22:50 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DontUDare

"By your own admisison you are doing what your customers want and not what you want otherwise they wouldnt be customers for very long."
I said, I choose customers that are looking for the same from play as I do. Just as any dominant or sub does. Which means I am doing what I want. Yes that means they get what they want, but it also means that I don't cater to needs that aren't what I like to do, I refuse more customers then I accept.

"If the relationship bet you and you clients is so endearing, why do you charge them?"
Because there is only one of me, my time is limited and also my resources for renting a place to play, or buy equipment to do so.

Maybe the mud is on your glasses and not in my comments?

Just as I thought If they didn't pay you couldn't do it ergo if they stopped paying your wouldn't pro them. Boy that sure sounds like a endearing relationship to me. Which has been one of my points all along. A pay as you go relationship is business relation nothing more. Your loyality is to a payday not to the other party.

BadOne

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 8:39:09 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

Ugh.

I am a Pro switch, because if I said "Hey I'm a switch, and I play with lots of people" then I'd get all kinds of cheap basement dwellers trying to squeese under my door.

I do not charge because I'm a greedy whore, I do not charge just to break even, I charge to make a profit, put myself and another one through school, and to make a living unil I get the job I really want.

All the "Omg not submissive, not really dominant" arguement is crap, you are complaining about the twue meaning of the word, and no one's ever going to agree on it.

I'm getting that you don't have the skill set to do anything else. I am not attempting to define subs or doms. My point is simple. If I am paying you to do anything <cutting my grass washing my car> you are going to do it the way I want it done. Otherwise I will take my business elsewhere.

BadOne

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RE: Pro-Style Fusion - Stigma. - 10/22/2008 10:29:47 PM

Lynnxz

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Awesome, a 'ur dumb' line.

No, I'm still in school, something you chose to edit out.

As far as "My way or the highway" if people do not like the way I work, they can leave. I do not change standards for people, they can go try to find another girl. In no way do I play with everyone that contacts me.

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