RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 9:06:34 AM)

That is all Obama has for qualifications - bullshit.

You can try to drag Bush into the qualifications argument, and scream "Bu-bu-bush!!" until you're blue in the face but that's not an argument, that's diversion. Hillary said of  Obama's qualifications (something like) 'He gave a speech once, and that's it."

Biden said he's got no experience, he's not qualified, he's not ready to be president.

Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Bullshit.



ModeratorEleven -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 9:19:58 AM)

Children, enough.

XI



Aynne88 -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 9:56:17 AM)

Waits with you, esp. from the OP. [;)]


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"this may be the most asinine comment I have seen in this entire political season." 


Then you can explain how portraying Bush as a chimp, is racist.

And I never heard anyone anywhere,even cons,describe Obama as being un-intelligent,ever.

So then you can explain what folks are getting at when they compare Omaba to a monkey,if it isn`t a comment about his smarts.

<waits with interest for the answer>



philosophy -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 9:59:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Waits with you, esp. from the OP. [;)]




...i don't think the OP likes those rude gotcha questions.....i'm still waiting for a reponse to my post #59 this thread.



Aynne88 -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 10:14:34 AM)

I see that philosophy. I think we will be waiting a bit then...[8D]



Aynne88 -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 10:16:29 AM)


Let's repost it, maybe she will see it this time and answer it.[:D]
 
 
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

I don't know if it's possible to be truly "color blind" but it would be nice if we stopped focusing so much on it.



...ok, pop quiz. How many Black US presidents have there been? How many Caucasion?
How many CEO's of multinational companies are black? How many caucasion?
How many Supreme Court Justices have been black? How many Caucasion?
If those numbers are roughly equivilant then it is, indeed, time to be wholly colourblind.
If there is an imbalance, then racism is still alive in US society......albeit at a lower level nowadays than heretofore. To be colourblind in such a situation is to turn ones face away from an injustice.

Those who ask us to turn our face away from bigotry may need to re-evaluate that position.



philosophy -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 10:17:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

I see that philosophy. I think we will be waiting a bit then...[8D]


...i'm not holding my breath.........(now back to my ongoing attempt to decode the damn Patriot Act)



TheHeretic -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 10:38:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Then you can explain how portraying Bush as a chimp, is racist.

And I never heard anyone anywhere,even cons,describe Obama as being un-intelligent,ever.

So then you can explain what folks are getting at when they compare Omaba to a monkey,if it isn`t a comment about his smarts.




       Way to change the rules of the game there, O59 (which is exactly what the OP was suggesting). 

       I've been off to Bush or Chimp website some find so terribly amusing and clever.  Looked to me like they were comparing expressive faces.  Physical characteristics.  Now you have a candidate with goofy ears and a hairline that match up beautifully and you cry racism?

        Name the people making this slander?  How about yourself?

      



Kirata -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 11:09:39 AM)

Okay, I'll bite. I honestly thought people were just cutting you a break to spare you embarrassment, figuring that you got carried away in a good cause. But since you want to get cranky about it....

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

How many Black US presidents have there been? How many Caucasion?
How many CEO's of multinational companies are black? How many caucasion?
How many Supreme Court Justices have been black? How many Caucasion?

If those numbers are roughly equivilant then it is, indeed, time to be wholly colourblind.
If there is an imbalance, then racism is still alive in US society.

Given that blacks comprise about 12% of the population, if those numbers were "roughly equivalent" it would suggest that racism was even more of a problem than it is now.

K.




philosophy -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 11:40:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Okay, I'll bite. I honestly thought people were just cutting you a break to spare you embarrassment, figuring that you got carried away in a good cause. But since you want to get cranky about it....

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

How many Black US presidents have there been? How many Caucasion?
How many CEO's of multinational companies are black? How many caucasion?
How many Supreme Court Justices have been black? How many Caucasion?

If those numbers are roughly equivilant then it is, indeed, time to be wholly colourblind.
If there is an imbalance, then racism is still alive in US society.

Given that blacks comprise about 12% of the population, if those numbers were "roughly equivalent" it would suggest that racism was even more of a problem than it is now.

K.




...fair enough. So, rephrase my pop quiz to reflect that. Have 12% of US presidents been black? Have 12% of supreme court justices been black? Have 12% of Ceo's been black?
i think you know the answers to those questions, which means there is a substantive point. Of course you can try and deny that. Have fun.



Irishknight -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 12:31:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Okay, I'll bite. I honestly thought people were just cutting you a break to spare you embarrassment, figuring that you got carried away in a good cause. But since you want to get cranky about it....

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

How many Black US presidents have there been? How many Caucasion?
How many CEO's of multinational companies are black? How many caucasion?
How many Supreme Court Justices have been black? How many Caucasion?

If those numbers are roughly equivilant then it is, indeed, time to be wholly colourblind.
If there is an imbalance, then racism is still alive in US society.

Given that blacks comprise about 12% of the population, if those numbers were "roughly equivalent" it would suggest that racism was even more of a problem than it is now.

K.




...fair enough. So, rephrase my pop quiz to reflect that. Have 12% of US presidents been black? Have 12% of supreme court justices been black? Have 12% of Ceo's been black?
i think you know the answers to those questions, which means there is a substantive point. Of course you can try and deny that. Have fun.

A better question would be, "How many offices today are held by nonwhites?" 
Putting it into a historical context adds numbers in their that make this a flawed equation.  We should be comparing ourselves to the racist cultures of the past to find out how much progress we have made and howfar we still have to go.  Adding their numbers to ours on questions only skews the answer so as to make us still seem like slave states.
We have no control over history and what happened 150 years ago.  Our obligation is to learn from it and make the world a little better each day.



philosophy -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 1:19:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

A better question would be, "How many offices today are held by nonwhites?" 
Putting it into a historical context adds numbers in their that make this a flawed equation.  We should be comparing ourselves to the racist cultures of the past to find out how much progress we have made and howfar we still have to go.  Adding their numbers to ours on questions only skews the answer so as to make us still seem like slave states.
We have no control over history and what happened 150 years ago.  Our obligation is to learn from it and make the world a little better each day.


...ok, although a little historical context is important. Let's  rephrase the whole question and say over the last 30 years. A couple of generations or in living memory, in other words. That reflects the experience of those living today.
Now, i know the answer to the POTUS part.....no non-white, all white. So a clear imbalance there. i honestly don't know about supreme court justuces or CEO's so i'm happy to be educated on those points.

My meta-point is that, while i admit freely that racism is in recession as it were....it isn't yet dead. The OP wanted us to ignore all questions of race. Now, i'd suggest that if we don't want to lose the gains made in the last few decades on this issue we mustn't take our eye off the ball.........



Irishknight -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 1:33:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...ok, although a little historical context is important. Let's  rephrase the whole question and say over the last 30 years. A couple of generations or in living memory, in other words. That reflects the experience of those living today.
Now, i know the answer to the POTUS part.....no non-white, all white. So a clear imbalance there. i honestly don't know about supreme court justuces or CEO's so i'm happy to be educated on those points.

My meta-point is that, while i admit freely that racism is in recession as it were....it isn't yet dead. The OP wanted us to ignore all questions of race. Now, i'd suggest that if we don't want to lose the gains made in the last few decades on this issue we mustn't take our eye off the ball.........

There we can agree.  I would break the last thirty tears down into decades for comparison myself but we're getting there.
And while we must keep our eye on the ball, we need to ensure we don't go to far the other way as well.  Special incentives or quotas for hiring people of any race are a step in the wrong direction.  They are merely a different form of racism.  Only by walking the middle ground and learning to ignore color can we ever truly kill racism. 
In my event promotions, I hire all kinds of people.  I bring them in based on talent, not color.  It is all about who will make my audience laugh, smile, and come back to do it all again.  I guess I do respect one color .... green.  I have yet to have anyone call me racist for not hiring them.  "Bastard" is what they usually call me. 

Just like hiring, we need to vote based on merit, not color.  I would happily campaign for Colin Powell.  I would fervently campaign against Vanilla Ice.  We should learn to ignore color, big dumbo ears, shiny bald heads and anything other than merit.
Just a quick rant.



philosophy -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 1:35:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...ok, although a little historical context is important. Let's  rephrase the whole question and say over the last 30 years. A couple of generations or in living memory, in other words. That reflects the experience of those living today.
Now, i know the answer to the POTUS part.....no non-white, all white. So a clear imbalance there. i honestly don't know about supreme court justuces or CEO's so i'm happy to be educated on those points.

My meta-point is that, while i admit freely that racism is in recession as it were....it isn't yet dead. The OP wanted us to ignore all questions of race. Now, i'd suggest that if we don't want to lose the gains made in the last few decades on this issue we mustn't take our eye off the ball.........

There we can agree.  I would break the last thirty tears down into decades for comparison myself but we're getting there.
And while we must keep our eye on the ball, we need to ensure we don't go to far the other way as well.  Special incentives or quotas for hiring people of any race are a step in the wrong direction.  They are merely a different form of racism.  Only by walking the middle ground and learning to ignore color can we ever truly kill racism. 
In my event promotions, I hire all kinds of people.  I bring them in based on talent, not color.  It is all about who will make my audience laugh, smile, and come back to do it all again.  I guess I do respect one color .... green.  I have yet to have anyone call me racist for not hiring them.  "Bastard" is what they usually call me. 

Just like hiring, we need to vote based on merit, not color.  I would happily campaign for Colin Powell.  I would fervently campaign against Vanilla Ice.  We should learn to ignore color, big dumbo ears, shiny bald heads and anything other than merit.
Just a quick rant.


...good rant though. i wholly agree.



Elisabella -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 7:13:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


Let's repost it, maybe she will see it this time and answer it.[:D]
 
 
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

I don't know if it's possible to be truly "color blind" but it would be nice if we stopped focusing so much on it.



...ok, pop quiz. How many Black US presidents have there been? How many Caucasion?
How many CEO's of multinational companies are black? How many caucasion?
How many Supreme Court Justices have been black? How many Caucasion?
If those numbers are roughly equivilant then it is, indeed, time to be wholly colourblind.
If there is an imbalance, then racism is still alive in US society......albeit at a lower level nowadays than heretofore. To be colourblind in such a situation is to turn ones face away from an injustice.

Those who ask us to turn our face away from bigotry may need to re-evaluate that position.


Your posts are so chock full of misinformation. I'm going to try to combine them all.

Pop quiz - how many blacks have run for President. I'll give you the answer - six. And that counts those who just ran for the nomination and didn't get it, so that's stretching it. One black has been on the Presidential ballot before Barack Obama - Lenora Fulani - and that's only because she ran as an Independent. IIRC I think she later got a spot in the Clinton Administration.

How many CEO's of multinational companies are black? On the flipside, how many blacks started their own business and took it multinational. There are a strikingly large amount of black entrepreneurs, but they focus mostly on neighborhood businesses. FWIW I don't think that *racism* is what would stop a black person today from taking a company global.

I'm assuming you're getting my point here. When you look at Supreme Court Justices, you have to look at how many black lawyers there are, then how many are well versed in political/constitutional law as opposed to the numerous other branches, then how many excel in their field, then how many have no skeletons in their closet. It's hard enough to find *a* Supreme Court nominee...much less adding on a color qualifier.

But I'll ask you - how much is enough? If blacks made up 12% of CEO's, 12% of politicians, hell even 12% of teen pregnancies and prisoners, since that's often attributed to racism too, will things finally be Fair? Or will there still be that baggage that will always be there until people consciously let it go?


Another thing I'll ask you, why does "I'm not racist, I have a black friend" get an eye roll from you, but "I'm not racist, I have a non-white partner" seem a viable defense?

quote:

Merely responding to Elisabella's calling kittin and myself racists becasue we ojected to her depiciton of Obama as looking like a big eared money. I am all too aware of racism in it's multitude of insidious forms, the worst being the disguised kind. "oh not me, I have a black friend"


I actually called you racist because you said the only reason I wouldn't vote for Obama is because he's black. That shows that 1. You see black skin as Obama's only flaw (negative racism) and 2. you think that regardless of political beliefs, everyone should vote for Obama because he's black (positive racism).

quote:

Why is it so many want the "avergae intelligence guy" your words dear, as the leader of the this country? [...] I want my leaders to not be Joe Six Pack, but brilliant, educated, free thinking, surrounding themselves with the best and brightest minds the country has to offer.


I don't know if that was a deliberate misinterpretation or not, but I didn't say I prefered any average intelligence guy over any genius. I specifically said I would rather have an average intelligence guy who will take the country in the direction I think it needs to go, over a genius who will turn the country into a cesspool of left wing ideology.

And to be honest, I think you feel the same way. Would you rather have a Mensa-certified genius who would outlaw abortion, implement a flat tax, and end affirmative action, or would you vote for a leftie of average intelligence who was running against him?

Barack's intelligent. He's well spoken. That's why I don't think the cartoon comparison was racist. It's not like anyone can say "LOL look at the dumb n***** monkey acting like a fool" about him. I think the comparison was more of a caricature of his appearance.

FWIW though I think he looks more like a donkey, and given his political leanings I think that comparison is far more apt.



Elisabella -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 7:27:15 PM)

quote:

And who are those who label opponents of Barack as racists,regardless?

Name them.


Aynne88, for starters. [;)]



MissSCD -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 7:36:58 PM)

I cannot say what the creator's intent of that cartoon character was, but I can say it was in bad taste.   I am a white American female.
I am also a Christian Female.
I am also a Domme. 
Does anyone consider those facts racists? I would not think so. They may think I am conservative when I am more moderate.
I am tired of this election.  With less than ten days to go, I know who I going to vote for.  I voting for Barack Obama because we cannot afford four more years of this republican right wing with their military dictatorship going on.
 
Regards, MissSCD



philosophy -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 9:42:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

When you look at Supreme Court Justices, you have to look at how many black lawyers there are, then how many are well versed in political/constitutional law as opposed to the numerous other branches, then how many excel in their field, then how many have no skeletons in their closet. It's hard enough to find *a* Supreme Court nominee...much less adding on a color qualifier.



.......you really don't see it? Seriously? Do you never ask any questions? If society was totaly non-racist then all the qualifiers you have mentioned would apply equally.....in which case we'd be looking at 12% of Supreme Court Justices, Presidential nominees and CEO's (or a  percent or two either way) being black. They're not........ergo there is another factor at play. i reckon it's the last vestiges of racism.  Now, racism has been in recession for a few years now.....however to insist, as you appear to do, that is now a trivial and non-important matter is clearly bogus. It still exists, it still needs combatting.......what it doesn't need is ignoring.



RainydayNE -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 10:02:41 PM)

it's alot more complicated than just saying "well how many of them go to law school and then excell and then do this and that and the other thing, blah blah blah"
and it's something you won't ever really understand until you've had to battle against "the way things are"
for a pretty large part of my education, i was kept out of higher learning programs even though i continually scored higher than other kids who were allowed to join them.
i didn't necessarily know WHY that was, but the only difference that i WAS aware of at a young age is that i was brown and they weren't. and there weren't any other brown kids in the higher learning programs either.

keeping certain people one level down is STILL part of the way things are done in alot of parts of this country. you just don't ever notice (or care in some cases) if you're not the person getting kept down.

NOW. that is not to say that black people can blame "the man" for all of their problems. there is something like chronic helplessness that affects alot of us. combined with a culture that glorifies criminality, devalues members of the population (particularly females), etc etc etc, and you've got a problem that will only get worse (atleast in my opinion) unless there is some serious overhaul. i mean, i was bullied pretty mercilessly for being smart, and as far as i know, "african american" culture is the only one where that sort of behavior is seen as relatively normal.

anyway... racism has gotten better. when i go vote, there won't be anyone chasing me away on horseback wearing a white hood. but that doenst mean that we can all pat ourselves on the back and say "good game everyone!" and call it a day. there is still work to do.



Kirata -> RE: Racism = Treating Obama the exact same way Bush is treated? (10/26/2008 10:31:45 PM)

I want thank you for your post. I resent the notion that "whites are racist", though I would not deny that some are. But I am also aware that black youth face crushing problems due to attitudes within their own community. In some respects, white society seems to have become more generally sensitive to its contributions than black society has. Perhaps because ours have been more obvious. But it's going to take both our communities doing their part if we're ever going to beat the problems that blacks face today.
 
Kirata

 



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