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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 8:02:35 AM

GreedyTop

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thats what I was wondering...

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 8:12:36 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I think it's counter to the idea of a voting democracy.

Just playing devil's advocate...

If i were a slave, wouldn't it be my duty to honor my Master's orders? i mean as a sub, i may not always want to do what my Dom says....but i feel compelled by the nature of our relationship. That is part of power exchange. Now if i am an owned slave...and it is not an order that puts me in life or death jeopardy...i'm not sure why i wouldn't obey.

Just thinking this out....

~pensive sub

Yes, it would be your duty to obey.

The question, I think isn't about the slave's duty in this case but the ethics and morals of such an owner living in and being citizen in a so-called democracy where the slave too is a citizen.

Since I don't live in a society where Fox's status as citizen was stripped from him when he agreed to become my slave, I don't believe I have a right to take that status from him. Part of that status involves his right to vote in elections and make his own choices.

I do, however, insist he go to the polls but honestly I can't say if he really votes or not though I trust that he does. He could just go and dink around behind the curtains but do nothing as far as I know.

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 8:19:22 AM

UncleNasty

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In our original Constitution slaves were 3/5 of a person and were not given a vote. They changed it since then, not by allowing slaves to vote, but by making slavery illegal.

In national elections it isn't the popular vote that decides anyway. It is the electoral college. Or it is the US Supreme Court. Or it is the side that is able to steal the most votes or eliminate the most voters from the roles of the other side.

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 11:11:28 AM

Aynne88

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Yay for celtic lord, you do surprise me sometimes...

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: newdombbw

Just been wondering what folks think of this idea? Legitimate or not? Especially if your slave wants the OTHER candidate?

This is why ballots are cast in secret.

I would not think much of the slave who allowed her vote to be dictated in this fashion. I would think even less of the master who would presume to dictate his slave's vote.

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 11:17:45 AM

Aynne88

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What did I tell you kittin? Orion go rent "Iron Jawed Angels" then rethink that. Or better yet watch it with your slave. Why is she not allowed to vote? Too stupid? Her voice does not matter? Because you said so? I am curious...I know you don't care, but to me this speaks of fear, of allowing a woman to participate in what the original suffragettes died for, and an opportunity to have a voice in the world in which she lives. Is that is? Silence her voice, silence her mind?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
My slave does not vote.

Is it your slave's personal preference?

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 11:59:35 AM

kittinSol

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To be fair, Orion has not answered my question

.

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 12:16:36 PM

rexrgisformidoni

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I think people who try to force their slaves to vote the way they wish are somewhat sick in the head. Its not right. We live in a democracy (in theory) and how a slave decided to vote is none of the others business. I never tell anyone who I vote for, sometimes I'll even do misinformation and say one thing and vote the other. So if I had a slave, she could vote however the hell she wanted and nt feel bad about it. I do prefer people to vote, it is a duty we should exercise, especially in local elections.

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 1:33:54 PM

VivaciousSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

What did I tell you kittin? Orion go rent "Iron Jawed Angels" then rethink that. Or better yet watch it with your slave. Why is she not allowed to vote? Too stupid? Her voice does not matter? Because you said so? I am curious...I know you don't care, but to me this speaks of fear, of allowing a woman to participate in what the original suffragettes died for, and an opportunity to have a voice in the world in which she lives. Is that is? Silence her voice, silence her mind?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
My slave does not vote.

Is it your slave's personal preference?

Let's be fair to Orion here, shall we? He has not said that he does not allow her to vote, rather he simply says that "she does not vote".

Even if he doesn't allow her to vote, it could very well be along the lines of Uncle Nasty's post - slaves didn't have the right to vote, and as his slave, neither does she. As her master, that's his decision.

I honestly have much more of a problem with a dom that insists that the slave vote, but only their way - especially if the slave has political opinions differing from her master. I would prefer that the slave not vote at all rather than cast something false to her opinion. That's like suborning lying, which I can't abide.

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 1:56:47 PM

justgemmie

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FR ~~

if i was an owned slave and Master told me not to vote, i wouldn't. if Master told me to vote His way, i would.

it's the old argument of sub v. slave. MY opinion - if i'm a slave, i damned well am doing anything and everything i'm told within my power to do, short of dying or killing or the extremes folks like to throw out. MY understanding of slavery is i am doing my best to be pleasing and obedient so He keeps me. i'm property. period end of story. otherwise, i'm a sub ,,,,, perhaps a Deeply submissive sub, but sub nonetheless.

and no, i would not tell Him yes i'll vote Your way then vote another. that's lying and i wouldn't do that no matter what my status.

Like Orion said - pick and choose your Master wisely.

well wishes,
gemmie

< Message edited by justgemmie -- 10/28/2008 1:59:19 PM >

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 1:58:04 PM

justgemmie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

I think people who try to force their slaves to vote the way they wish are somewhat sick in the head. Its not right. We live in a democracy (in theory) and how a slave decided to vote is none of the others business. I never tell anyone who I vote for, sometimes I'll even do misinformation and say one thing and vote the other. So if I had a slave, she could vote however the hell she wanted and nt feel bad about it. I do prefer people to vote, it is a duty we should exercise, especially in local elections.

see, here's a perfect example. if she's a slave, what's she doing deciding in the first place? isn't that the Master's job??

gemmie

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 2:02:06 PM

kittinSol

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It's about the 'owner' making the honourable decision...

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 2:05:14 PM

justgemmie

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*smiles* now that i can agree with kittenSol .....

i can more realistically believe an honorable Man will not allow His slave to vote as opposed to forcing her to vote His way. i also believe that many honorable Men will allow their slaves to vote because it pleases them to do so, or it is what they believe to be right, or whatever.

however, there will always be those Men who choose to make their slaves vote the way they want. do i approve? no. if One was my owner, would i follow His direction? absolutely .....

well wishes to you,
gemmie

< Message edited by justgemmie -- 10/28/2008 2:27:17 PM >

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 2:06:49 PM

LaTigresse

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Exactly, and if a slave choses an unhonourable owner........well then, they share as much responsibility as the owner.

I guess it all comes down to priorities.

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 2:13:00 PM

justgemmie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Exactly, and if a slave choses an unhonourable owner........well then, they share as much responsibility as the owner.

I guess it all comes down to priorities.

greetings LaTigresse

do You truly believe the Master to be unhonorable because of this one thing? seems a bit harsh and judgmental. It is His choice to do as He wishes - just as it is Your choice to allow Your slaves to vote what they choose. how is this different than allowing Your slave to have friends ... or not; or allowing Your slave to speak less than respectfully ... or not; or any myriad of things that make a dynamic.

it's politics. it's a bomb waiting to explode with the emotions that it brings to the fore --- but it is just another "thing" in an M/s relationship, for the Master to decide on.

well wishes,
gemmie

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 2:17:46 PM

trappedinamuseum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

What did I tell you kittin? Orion go rent "Iron Jawed Angels" then rethink that. Or better yet watch it with your slave. Why is she not allowed to vote? Too stupid? Her voice does not matter? Because you said so? I am curious...I know you don't care, but to me this speaks of fear, of allowing a woman to participate in what the original suffragettes died for, and an opportunity to have a voice in the world in which she lives. Is that is? Silence her voice, silence her mind?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
My slave does not vote.

Is it your slave's personal preference?

Wow....jumping the gun much?

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 2:23:39 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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It is my belief that we have a secret ballot because it is noone's business who a person votes for any more than it is anyone's business why each individual might choose to vote for whomever it is they cast their ballot for. Because it isn't anyone's business, it is a non issue.

How I go about determining who I vote for - is my business unless I choose to share that reasoning.

That said, I'd probably view a dominant who ordered me to vote a particular way with the same baffled expression as I'd view them if they ordered me to jump off the roof of a 20 story building. Not so much as a no way in hell...but more of a....huh? Where's the punch line?

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 2:30:38 PM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: justgemmie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Exactly, and if a slave choses an unhonourable owner........well then, they share as much responsibility as the owner.

I guess it all comes down to priorities.

greetings LaTigresse

do You truly believe the Master to be unhonorable because of this one thing? seems a bit harsh and judgmental. It is His choice to do as He wishes - just as it is Your choice to allow Your slaves to vote what they choose. how is this different than allowing Your slave to have friends ... or not; or allowing Your slave to speak less than respectfully ... or not; or any myriad of things that make a dynamic.

it's politics. it's a bomb waiting to explode with the emotions that it brings to the fore --- but it is just another "thing" in an M/s relationship, for the Master to decide on.

well wishes,
gemmie

Gemmie, specifically yes and no. As I said, it all comes down to priorities. If it was important to the slave and he or she felt strongly about being able to vote as they wished, then yes, to me that would be dishonourable. However, I also feel that if it were an important issue, it should be among the things discussed prior to ownership.

I guess it is something I feel strongly enough about, the rights of US citizenship, that any owner should honour their country enough to encourage their slave to vote responsibly after educating themself. So, I guess to me, honourable is also encouraging that slave to vote according to what he/she learned. Not just to be in agreement with me. What pleases me is intelligence and free thought, even in this sort of slavery.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 2:59:10 PM

OrionTheWolf

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There is an entire topic on it in the Gorean section if you wish to read it. I believe it is called slave sufferage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
My slave does not vote.

Is it your slave's personal preference?

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 3:07:06 PM

LaTigresse

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Orion, you are actually inviting Kittin into the Gorean section?!?!? Are you mad man???

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RE: Making your slave vote for YOUR candidate - 10/28/2008 3:16:54 PM

OrionTheWolf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

What did I tell you kittin? Orion go rent "Iron Jawed Angels" then rethink that.

No thanks.

quote:

Or better yet watch it with your slave. Why is she not allowed to vote? Too stupid? Her voice does not matter? Because you said so? I am curious...I know you don't care, but to me this speaks of fear, of allowing a woman to participate in what the original suffragettes died for, and an opportunity to have a voice in the world in which she lives. Is that is? Silence her voice, silence her mind?

My view of slavery is different than most. The greatest thing that those that have died for freedom have died for, is Freedom of Choice. Many do not respect that, and then try to impose their own view of right and wrong on others. Has nothing to do with fear, it has to do with my property not exerting her rights, which is her choice in begging my collar. Your comments are pretty insultive as you have no clue as to the type, depth and amount of discussions I have with my property. Often it is her opinion I ask first, before anyone else's, because she is intelligent and knows me well.

As far as allowing a woman to participate, you are far off the mark there as well. I have raised a 23 year old daughter, by myself, and when she told me she wanted to vote I taught her how to research things, and then apply them to her own code of ethics.

As I pointed out to Kittensol, there is an entire thread on it in the Gorean section. Looking at it from an ethical point, know my slave would just vote for who I like, it kind of keeps me to just one vote now doesn't it?

Aynne, one of the rights our founding fathers fought and died for is to be able to bear arms. Do you own a firearm or do you choose to not exert that right?

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