Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: The differance between lifestyles


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: The differance between lifestyles Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:42:05 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I have never understood why someone would take books of fiction and turn them into a way of life. Although I suppose I shouldn't be suprised as people took other books and turned them into religions. As for myself, I have always lived outside of guidelines.

I am not picking on you, I just wanted to comment on what I bolded here.

This is actually a large misconception that many DO have about Goreans; that they used fictional books to center their lives around.
Goreans center their lives around honor, integrity, loyalty, and a strong sense of family and home ( family and home can encomapss their friends and their cities or country )
It just so happens that the books also use the same ethics and morals;  those who embraced this were already Gorean, they just found a name for it through the books.


_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:43:12 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19
I have never understood why someone would take books of fiction and turn them into a way of life. Although I suppose I shouldn't be suprised as people took other books and turned them into religions. As for myself, I have always lived outside of guidelines.


Colouredin, I'm no Gor but I hope you don't mind me joining in. Ditto what luscious said above- there are a few Gor aficionadi who are intelligent people, but the majority of Gor strikes me as a rigid and rather desperate attempt at finding a commonality of purpose for individuals who are terrified of the void in their lives. "I've got to belong to a group and obey its rules in order to be myself and find the meaning of my existence.": this is how Gor comes across to me most of the time. I won't even go into their erroneous belief that men and women have specific gender roles attributed to them by nature - that's so obviously false.  

_____________________________



(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:43:34 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
This is a misconception. No one took the books and turned it into a way of life. 1) You have the philosophy within, the author is a philosophy professor. Those philosophies are not new or unique, just the way he has mixed them together make sense to many people as an expression of how they already feel about many things. 2) The customs and traditions are seperate from the philosophies, and there are many that use those traditions and customs, without claiming to be Gorean or some that claim to be Gorean do not follow those customs.

1 and 2 are often confused, because if someone uses all the trappings from the series, they must be Gorean. Which this statement is false, because to be Gorean you must agree with the philosphies and start your journey from there. There are many mavericks within the Gorean community, and many conformist, just like anything in life.




quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I have never understood why someone would take books of fiction and turn them into a way of life. Although I suppose I shouldn't be suprised as people took other books and turned them into religions. As for myself, I have always lived outside of guidelines.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:44:14 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I personally find it a bit fucked up and confusing sticking Ds and Ms into 'BDSM' - as though they are all part of the same thing.  They aren't.  At least not in our world.  I know there is this big push to combine everything into one neat little box of BDSM.  Nah - to me, that is like certain peeps want to try and make everyone fit in, to make it inclusive.  That's pretty blergh to me.

 
I'm also an avid proponent of recognizing and appreciating the difference inherent to power exchange relationships as compared to B/D and/or S/M.  But in the circles I run in, I'm not aware of any great effort to portray them all as "the same".  More that we have some common interests, common concerns, and often socialize in common venues.
 
BDSM is an umbrella term for that reason, but not meant to imply homogenization.

 
John

< Message edited by Rover -- 11/7/2008 5:45:16 AM >


_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:48:47 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I have never understood why someone would take books of fiction and turn them into a way of life. Although I suppose I shouldn't be suprised as people took other books and turned them into religions. As for myself, I have always lived outside of guidelines.

I am not picking on you, I just wanted to comment on what I bolded here.




Dang. I was so looking forward to a smackdown in IrishMist style. *sigh*
(Gone but not forgotten are the Snark Filled threads. *double sigh*)

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:51:20 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
Gorean is based on philosophies, principles and understandings that existed LONG before Norman every thought of Gor and have existed in many historical societies sometimes together sometimes separately and many of beliefs of different historical societies.  Wiithin Gor there are certain ones that exist as a whole an within the choice to identify as Gorean you have determined to live by same.  Goreans utilize the philosophies of the books, they don't attempt to take the fictional plots and such and turn it into their lives.  The reason people who try and read the books who don't understand this and try and take the actions of the books (without understanding the underlying bases of whys and mindsets involved) is because they haven't read the books for the meaning underneath the words.  If you really read the books you will see much irony, much symbolism, etc, which all creates the understandings of what is happening in the books.  I try and tell people its like reading Aesop fables.  You don't read them and attempt to mimic the stories, you read them for the meaning behind the stories that is where you get the understanding of the story.

So if you are under the presumption Goreans try and incorporate actions of the books into their lives and that's what makes them Gorean, then you won't ever understand it.  While for some its a committment to living their lives, others its a collection of understandings they have finally put words too.  For many, Gorean is at the core of their being, its imprinted as part of their character.  The identification of being Gorean means you are actively choosing to live as your understanding of those philosophies in the books.  If you don't identify as Gorean, well then you simply aren't Gorean.    

Goreans don't incorporate Gorean into their lives, they simply are Gorean.  To me, BDSM, D/s, M/s, is all something people incorporate into their lives, even Goreans who choose to partake, incorporate M/s into their lives, you are and can be Gorean without ever having incorporated same into your life.  Which is why slavery of a woman by a Gorean man is called Gorean slavery.  Because the slavery is based on the Man who identifies himself as Gorean, and therefore, simply by association his beliefs and perceptoins of the world are transfered down to how he holds his women in slavery or his relationship with his woman who companions with him.  Just as in Rome, the slaves were Roman slaves, etc. 

angel 


< Message edited by barelynangel -- 11/7/2008 5:56:19 AM >


_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:52:27 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19
I have never understood why someone would take books of fiction and turn them into a way of life. Although I suppose I shouldn't be suprised as people took other books and turned them into religions. As for myself, I have always lived outside of guidelines.


Colouredin, I'm no Gor but I hope you don't mind me joining in. Ditto what luscious said above- there are a few Gor aficionadi who are intelligent people, but the majority of Gor strikes me as a rigid and rather desperate attempt at finding a commonality of purpose for individuals who are terrified of the void in their lives. "I've got to belong to a group and obey its rules in order to be myself and find the meaning of my existence.": this is how Gor comes across to me most of the time. I won't even go into their erroneous belief that men and women have specific gender roles attributed to them by nature - that's so obviously false.  


I see this type of way of life in many of the devout of many religions. haveing to stick by a set of rules that make their lives orderly. Much like the Chasidic or Lubuvitch or Amish or any other belief system with a rigid set of rules and doctrine.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:52:29 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Dang. I was so looking forward to a smackdown in IrishMist style. *sigh*
(Gone but not forgotten are the Snark Filled threads. *double sigh*)

LMAO...well fiddlefuck

Let me search my mind for an appropriate 'smack down' ok lol

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:53:08 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

As for myself, I have always lived outside of guidelines.


I find this interesting because we all live inside of guidlines, none more so than submissves who have guidlines placed upon us.

However i dont want this to turn into a discussion about the validity of origin in either lifestyle, simply what people percieve the differance between the two to be.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:53:23 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

It just so happens that the books also use the same ethics and morals;  those who embraced this were already Gorean, they just found a name for it through the books.


To be honest, the same principled ethics can be found in many groups as diverse as the Marine Corps and modern interpretations of the "Old Guard".  When I see or hear Goreans discussing aspects of Gor, I see or hear them referring to the Norman books.  Not for matters of ethics or morals, but for matters of protocol, dynamics and social structure.
 
John

< Message edited by Rover -- 11/7/2008 5:55:59 AM >


_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:54:50 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

any other belief system with a rigid set of rules and doctrine.


For some this makes their life easier and more orderly.  They need the set of rules in order to function.  I would find it too confining and stifling.  I'm not a joiner.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 5:55:43 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
You have the philosophy within, the author is a philosophy professor. Those philosophies are not new or unique, just the way he has mixed them together make sense to many people as an expression of how they already feel about many things.


See, what you refer to as "philosophy" I call mythology. By definition, philosophy addresses problems by reasoned argument and logic: I see no such methodology in the Gor way of life, but rather a set of beliefs - which is absolutely fine for those that like them, of course.

_____________________________



(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:02:26 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

It just so happens that the books also use the same ethics and morals;  those who embraced this were already Gorean, they just found a name for it through the books.


To be honest, the same principled ethics can be found in many groups as diverse as the Marine Corps and modern interpretations of the "Old Guard".  When I see or hear Goreans discussing aspects of Gor, I see or hear them referring to the Norman books.  Not for matters of ethics or morals, but for matters of protocol and dynamics.
 
John

You are correct about the principled ethics and morals in that you would find the same in the military or in military families most often. Which is why it is often a misconception that Goreans live by 'a book'. The books simply took a way of life and integrated it into a story of fiction.

As for the protocals and dynamics; the dynamics have been around for a long time. A Gorean household most often parralles that of a M/s household. You have a Dominant, and you have a submissive ( FC ) or/and a slave.

HOWEVER, being a Gorean is not dependant upon having a submissive or a slave. Being Gorean is based upon acknowledgement and acceptance of the philosophy, morals and ethics that define it.

edited because I can't spell worth a shit this morning

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 11/7/2008 6:04:20 AM >


_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:05:08 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist
being a Gorean is not dependant upon having a submissive or a slave. Being Gorean is based upon acknowledgement and acceptance of the philosophy, morals and ethics that defind it.


interesting point, so to compare does being a Dominant or submissive outside of Gorean philosophy rely on having a partner of the opposite orientation?

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:07:32 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist
being a Gorean is not dependant upon having a submissive or a slave. Being Gorean is based upon acknowledgement and acceptance of the philosophy, morals and ethics that defind it.


interesting point, so to compare does being a Dominant or submissive outside of Gorean philosophy rely on having a partner of the opposite orientation?

You tell me. How many discussions have we had on these boards that say you can not be a Master unless you have a slave/submissive to be a Master to?

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:10:20 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
Thats true, but there is normally the qualification that you can be a Dominant or submissive, its just the terms Master and slave that are emotive

< Message edited by colouredin -- 11/7/2008 6:11:36 AM >


_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:15:16 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Thats true, but there is normally the qualification that you can be a Dominant or submissive, its just the terms Master and slave that are emotive

Yes. Which leads us to another misconception about Gor.

Being Gorean has absolutly nothing to do with slavery or ownership. Again, I will use the comparison that slaves are a side dish. They are not necessary to being a Gorean.

Since I believe and it is how I look at things...that submissive is a personality and not an orientation; you can be submissive without being owned or collared. Slavery is a bit more difficult to explain because once again, for many, it comes down to how you view things.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:21:13 AM   
Barelily


Posts: 96
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I don't see Gor as the same as BDSM
But then, I don't see Ms or Ds the same as BDSM either.
 
I personally find it a bit fucked up and confusing sticking Ds and Ms into 'BDSM' - as though they are all part of the same thing.  They aren't.  At least not in our world.  I know there is this big push to combine everything into one neat little box of BDSM.
 

 
Agreed, I get a bit tired of people not being able to make the separation also.
 
Disclaimer: This post was made in response to the post made by Darcyandthedark and is based on my opinion and experiences only.

_____________________________

"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that that take your breath away."

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:24:10 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
I did not refer to anything specific, so how do you know what I am actually refering to? Just to name a few, the philosphies of Plato and Nietzsche are spun into the series, not in their entirety but in their essence within the social structure described. You are correct in your other post that many that claim Gorean seem to do so as a way to group identify themselves and belong to something. That is reflected in the Master/slave morality of Nietzsche.

To address someone else's ppoint, the structure is applied by the individual by a development of a code. This is where many make reference to honor and integrity.

The series also uses sarcastic description of many things as an example of how the should not be. This is often seen in the characters that cause many problems and drama in the series. Many that read the series try to state that since it is in the series, then it is okay to do and is a Gorean belief, when in fact they missed the point of it being an example of how things should not be. One of the biggest misconceptions is that males are always superior, which that belief is completely opposite of superiority being based upon merit.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
You have the philosophy within, the author is a philosophy professor. Those philosophies are not new or unique, just the way he has mixed them together make sense to many people as an expression of how they already feel about many things.


See, what you refer to as "philosophy" I call mythology. By definition, philosophy addresses problems by reasoned argument and logic: I see no such methodology in the Gor way of life, but rather a set of beliefs - which is absolutely fine for those that like them, of course.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:24:30 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
So where Goreans embrace a common philosophy and recognise themselevs as being a group people in BDSM swear blind that they are all totoally differant, when fundementall they arent really.


Well, I'm not going to shout at you, and I will express deep hesitation in discussing "gorean" things where none of the people discussing them are, in fact, gorean.  But without being gorean, I can in fact pick apart the above statement.  "Different" is going to be one of those "in the eyes of the beholder" things.  Since each of us is different from the other, the obvious questions are how different? and in what ways? and are those ways material to the talker?

My own opinion is that the Goreans have a difficult time seeing themselves as a part of BDSM because they have a fundamentally different worldview than BDSM'ers, much the same reason I don't associate with the label either.  It has nothing to do with any BDSM question.  Yes, they (and I) have relationships in which there is an authority dynamic.  But then again, so do vanilla folk and we don't call them BDSM.  In what way OTHER than potentially having a relationship in which there is a sharply defined authority transfer would you say that they are BDSM?

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: The differance between lifestyles Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078