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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:37:55 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		My experience as a naturally Dominant female has been this. My malesub WAS a Gorean Master in real life, he owned a kajira that he married. He had lots of Gorean friends for many years in real life. When he came clean to himself and his kajira wife that he was really submissive, she left him and when he told his Gorean "friends" they turned their backs on him. ALL of them said they wanted nothing to do with a "weak, submissive male". They wanted less to do with a "woman who did not know her place" meaning me. I was glad to hear them say that, as I wanted nothing to do with them after I saw how they treated him.

I do not buy into the strict gender roles, not all women are submissive and unconsenual slavery (which is in the books)sickens me.

BDSM recognizes that no matter what your gender you can be Dominant/submissive/switch
BDSM does not advocate unconsenual slavery

But they do share one thing in common, they are made up of people who will either accept you or harshly judge you.

My 2 cents

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:44:43 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

I do not buy into the strict gender roles, not all women are submissive and unconsenual slavery (which is in the books)sickens me.

quote:

  BDSM does not advocate unconsenual slavery


I am sorry, but I have to comment on this.
Yes, the  books DO condone unconsentual slavery. HOWEVER, Goreans do NOT.

edited again because dayumit....my spelling today fucking sucks

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 11/7/2008 6:45:30 AM >

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:55:58 AM   
patina


Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I have never understood why someone would take books of fiction and turn them into a way of life. Although I suppose I shouldn't be suprised as people took other books and turned them into religions. As for myself, I have always lived outside of guidelines.


Greetings all:

It is not just the way of life the Goreans are taking from the books it is the philosophy of that way of life.
The philosophy of honor- integrity- working together- patrotism- protecting your home- taking care of the land- nature- not destroying things above when it needs to be used.  Those are what is used from the books all the old ways of life we had back in the pre-technology days. 

What a lot of people seem to forget or not understand is that the philosophies in the book are a mixture of all ancient philosophies from a variety of cultures; Asians, Native Americans, Spartans, Romans, and Christians. They were all merged into one culture from the books but they are all from our past cultures not some alien world. 

I like to consider myself a Gorean slave.  No disrespect intended but so far i have found that there are fewer males into the kinks so i do not have to have limits i can just submit totally without worrying i will be told to act like a puppy or to piss on him.  A lot of them do like bondage and whipping as that is in the books and is cionsidered a means of training a slave but they do not scene with it, when a girls is whipped it is not for pleasure it is for punishment.  There is no putting clothes pins on her nipples to punish her just flat out whip her.  The majority seem to be more honest or as least i have found it to be that way but this is just those i have dealt with.  I am not saying there are no Gorean that do not lie just i have not found as many  there as those who clain to have no dealing with the Gorean lifestyle. 

i post on both sides of CM i enjoy reading several forum.  I am still learning to be a proper kajira and finding it very hard on my own.  I tend to get sassy and write without thinking first.  I still try to write on this forum as i would on a Gorean but leaving out the protocol used there.  Although i do use some of it it slips in naturally. 


i hope this helps on your question or comment.  I beg forgiveness if i have displeased or said anything in error i tried to be as correct as possible.

patina 

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 6:58:57 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Sorry to nitpick, Orion, but I am referring to philosophy as a discipline, not to the ideas of various philosophers. Gor is a mythology: it tries to explain the world via a series of stories - Norman attempted to put some meat on the bones of his mediocre prose by referring to Plato and Nietzche, but he didn't invent 'a new philosophy'. In the way that it is a work of fiction with an ambition to provide humanity with a goal, and answers to eternal questions, Gor isn't dissimilar to the Bible (I know, I know... sacrilege, iconoclasm for both sides :-) .

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:00:27 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		Fr

Something else I have been thinking about which would have been best in the OP, we must all share something, have something in common or else we wouldnt have been drawn to the site in the first place, there would be no need for groups of this sort if there was nothing to identify with

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:04:20 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Lotus, yes i mean just like that.  grins, i have yet to meet a Gorean Man that remotely hates women lol.  The very concept is so foreign to them they couldn't begin to contemplate it within their perception of the world.  A Gorean Man hating women?  What would be the point and what's more, why would they bother?  I mean seriously. 

Lashra:  I don't know anything about your male sub but i do know based on what you stated here:

quote:

My malesub WAS a Gorean Master in real life, he owned a kajira that he married.  


Perhaps he focused too much on the above making him something he wasn't.  If that's what you believe created the Gorean concept of him, because that's what he has explained to you and showed you once made him Gorean, then by that statement, he never understood what Gorean was to begin with.  He may have faked it among his friends.    The reason i say this is because a Gorean wouldn't identify himself as a Gorean Master in terms of who he was.  He would identify himself as a Gorean Man.  i am not sure of the significance of owning a kajira -- the concept of kajira comes from the identification of the Man by his choice, therefore, if he claimed to be Gorean than his slave would be identified as a kajira.  All that means is female slave.  Gorean because she was owned by a Man who chose to as same.  The marraige, again, you lost me, that creates some meaning in Gor how?

Its easy to take a sneaking glance at Gor and not see the depth of what Goreans see.  Goreans tend to study the books, they don't just give a glance and proclaim.  Most people tend to take a glance and say well okay this is what Gor is, to me that's like looking at a chocolate frosted cake and they cut down a lil bit and see white cake inside and proclaim it to be a Chocolate-frosted white cake, but if they actually taste it and savor the flavor they will find it was actually find it was a angel food cake with chocolate pudding inside and a chocolate frosting. 

Looks can be deceiving.  The problem is, too many people want to not do the indepth homework of understanding but decide cliff note version based on websites or reading the plot etc gives them an idea of what people who live Gorean are, and what it means to them to identify. Then, like the op here, when they don't really want to discuss it with people who really could care less about understanding *for if they really wanted to understand they would simply do the homework), people get their knickers in a twist and come to others who don't ID as Gorean to ask them what they think ABOUT Goreans lol.  People believe that Goreans owe them an explanation because well hell they want to know and get upset and stomp off to get misinformation, when they are told do a little work and find your answers from the discussions already been had, then come back and ask questions based on what you have learned.  Which btw is what happened with the OP, only she didn't want to do the homework.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 11/7/2008 7:06:27 AM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:04:35 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Fundamentally each and every one of us has a different 'code' we live by. No two BDSM / M/s / D/s etc relationships are the same. Gorean's sometimes get a really rough ride from those who do not understand, try to understand them.

Are Goreans so different from us? In some things i think yes, in some things i think no. What i do believe though is that they get a rough ride because they won't just 'give' you an answer to an question. Most Goreans i have had contact with have encouraged me to seek out the answers for myself and then go back to them with what i have found. Then it is discussed and if i have been heading in the wrong direction they have steered me back right. Personally i prefer this approach but some who want it easy and to just have the answers placed in their hands, see it as Goreans being elitist, arrogant, ignorant or any number of negative things.
 
From what i have learnt about Goreans i cant agree that they aren't different. But there again i am different from most here just as you are different from most here. I cannot understand this need to pull us all together in one 'box' and state we are all far more similar than we believe.

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:10:20 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Oh indeed it is a work of fiction, and there are many that claim to be Gorean that some of us constantly have to remind that it is fictional. Norman's intent to write the series was/is to make money and write about something he is passionate about. Many of us are also reminding others that it is not a new philosophy, and that is what I was pointing out.

It is actually not trying to answer any questions, and many quotes in the series point to this. To break it down it states that first you must look internally to yourself to discover your nature, and then to follow it. It mentions many things that may be taught to us via society, that may be counter to our nature (regardless of gender), and that these things must be unlearned before you can truly know yourself.

Your only misinterpretation is stating that the ambition was to teach or show something, when the ambition/goal was really to just write a Sci Fi novel.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Sorry to nitpick, Orion, but I am referring to philosophy as a discipline, not to the ideas of various philosophers. Gor is a mythology: it tries to explain the world via a series of stories - Norman attempted to put some meat on the bones of his mediocre prose by referring to Plato and Nietzche, but he didn't invent 'a new philosophy'. In the way that it is a work of fiction with an ambition to provide humanity with a goal, and answers to eternal questions, Gor isn't dissimilar to the Bible (I know, I know... sacrilege, iconoclasm for both sides :-) .


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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:13:28 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
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quote:

why someone would take books of fiction


Hear, hear - although I understand why people would do this, as I understand why religious folk will accept religious texts, thousands of years old and multi-translated, as if they had any bearing on life. It is the concept of having a philosophy, something one believes in, but being unable to equate that with one's everyday life, and needing a sort of guru to "fill in the gaps".

Liken it to the other poster who mentioned the military in this respect - I have hired a significant number of former military into the commercial world, many straight out of the Pentagon when they retired, folks that arrive in the commercial world after spending their formative years in the military. The common theme around greater Washington is that they are completely uselesss for a year, at minimum, because they are unable to think for themselves, and can't handle rule interpretation, after however many years living with rulebooks and functioning while being told what to do, and how to do it, by an invented and artificial system.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:15:02 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

Are Goreans so different from us? In some things i think yes, in some things i think no.


No Goreans aren't different from people, we all are people.  I am not sure who "us" is in your comment above.  There are many people that live pretty much under the same beliefs, philosophies etc that Goreans do, they live by the same mold, however, it doesn't make them Gorean.  What makes a person Gorean is the actual choice to identify as same.  They are different simply on a choosen field of identification and their choice to live by same, they are the same as an individual who chooses to live by their own identification based on some form of belief system be it religious, cultural, political etc.  People just get their knickers in a twist because they don't like someone else chooses a label they themselves don't understand but more importantly don't choose too.  So they in their ignorance simply make things up.

I also can't understand some people's need for togetherism lol.  Everyone should live based on what works for them, if they are more concerned with what others are doing, they are depriving themselves of well knowing and being secure in who they themselves are.

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:15:19 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		It has nothing to do with the OP, but ....


kitten I would like to say that the interaction with you in the forums has been enjoyable of late. I am not sure what or where the alteration of perceptions occured, but I will admit that I perceived you incorrectly until of late. I mention this publically because I believe things like this offer good examples to others that we can create perceptions that are not actually correct. Admitting it and learning from it would also be considered a Gorean principles, but none of those principles are exclusionary to Gor.

Live well,
Orion

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:20:22 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Your only misinterpretation is stating that the ambition was to teach or show something, when the ambition/goal was really to just write a Sci Fi novel.


And I am glad to hear that. It begs the question, then: why have these novels rallied so many people in search of meaning to their lives and relationships - cue colouredin's original post? Why Gor? It's not even well written. I ask this question because I'm curious to hear your take on it.

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:20:38 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

quote:

Are Goreans so different from us? In some things i think yes, in some things i think no.


quote:

No Goreans aren't different from people, we all are people. 

Sorry i have to disagree here, all people are different.
 
quote:

 I am not sure who "us" is in your comment above. 

Sorry that should have been me.
 
quote:

 There are many people that live pretty much under the same beliefs, philosophies etc that Goreans do, they live by the same mold, however, it doesn't make them Gorean.

I'm sure there are but they will all have their differences too.
 
quote:

  What makes a person Gorean is the actual choice to identify as same.  They are different simply on a choosen field of identification and their choice to live by same, they are the same as an individual who chooses to live by their own identification based on some form of belief system be it religious, cultural, political etc.

I agree. Never questioned this.
 
quote:

  People just get their knickers in a twist because they don't like someone else chooses a label they themselves don't understand but more importantly don't choose too.  So they in their ignorance simply make things up.

Whole heartedly agree.


quote:

I also can't understand some people's need for togetherism lol.  Everyone should live based on what works for them, if they are more concerned with what others are doing, they are depriving themselves of well knowing and being secure in who they themselves are.

angel

Again i completely agree. We need to stop trying to fit people in boxes because it suits us.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:21:22 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Gor recognizes that no matter your gender you may have a dominant or submissive nature. There are no switches, but there are degrees of being dominant and submissive as well as you may be dominant or one individual and submissive to another.

Gor does not advocate unconsenual slavery. It was a fictional device to show other things. Slavery has nothing to do with being Gorean.

As far as how you and your slave were treated, that was those people individual opinions they expressed and is not really based well in the series. In fact there are a few examples of very dominant females, that actually govern and lead. If you run into any Goreans that want to state that just because a male has a dick, that they are superior and that all women are supposed to be submissive, then send them over to the Gorean section so they can be corrected. More than likely they will keep that belief, but it is their personal belief and not really supported on a philosophy of merit.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

BDSM recognizes that no matter what your gender you can be Dominant/submissive/switch
BDSM does not advocate unconsenual slavery



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:25:49 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Fast Reply to no one in particular....
 
I have a very well developed sense of right and wrong, a highly tuned moral compass, a personal code of ethics that is the equal of any group out there.  Based on that, can I *be* Gorean?  Or does it require something more?
 
John

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:27:30 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Hi Missturbation:
quote:


quote:

No Goreans aren't different from people, we all are people. 


Sorry i have to disagree here, all people are different.


What i meant was Goreans are people lol.  So no they aren't different from people in general, they  have their beliefs they live by, they incorporate different things in their lives, they eat drink and be merry.  And they are all, however, individuals.  I wasn't implying all people are the same, i meant all Goreans are people, and in that we are the same. 

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:29:10 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Sorry i can't help this -- Rover do your homework and decide for yourself, if you rely on someone elses opinion, in my belief -- nope you can't be.  If you have to ask before you decide to do the homework, the answer is no, if you choose to find out for yourself by doing the homework, the answer is maybe.  Because in the end its what how you relate to same, no one can help you with that but yourself and what you know about well -- you.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 11/7/2008 7:36:12 AM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:29:14 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
kitten I would like to say that the interaction with you in the forums has been enjoyable of late.


Thank you, and I reciprocate - it shows that we learn every day. If there's one thing I"m grateful for, it's that these fora have exposed me to many different opinions. And all knowledge is good :-) .

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:29:37 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Hi Missturbation:
quote:



quote:

No Goreans aren't different from people, we all are people. 



Sorry i have to disagree here, all people are different.


What i meant was Goreans are people lol.  So no they aren't different from people in general, they  have their beliefs they live by, they incorporate different things in their lives, they eat drink and be merry.  And they are all, however, individuals.  I wasn't implying all people are the same, i meant all Goreans are people, and in that we are the same. 


Ah ok.
Then all i can say is you must have misread or i did not put my point about all people being different across in the first place. I never meant to suggest that we were not all people and in that the same. 

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:32:26 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Fast Reply to no one in particular....
 
I have a very well developed sense of right and wrong, a highly tuned moral compass, a personal code of ethics that is the equal of any group out there.  Based on that, can I *be* Gorean?  Or does it require something more?
 
John

Ahh now Rover...that is a very good question indeed. ANd the answer is even more simple than you realize.

Taking away the 'fiction'  that is Gor; and instead looking at the philosophies, codes, ethics, and morals that are written into the book....and then accepting that some of those are also integrated into your own life in such a way  that they are a part of the core of you....it is simply a matter of asking yourself if you wish to wear that label.

Calling a person Gorean does not change the core of that  person...it only labels them.

edited to  add:
Miss Angel answered a bit better than I did lol

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 11/7/2008 7:34:20 AM >

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