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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:33:30 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Sorry i can't help this -- Rover do your homework and decide for yourself, if you rely on someone elses opinion, in my belief -- nope you can't be. If you have to ask before you decide to do the homework, the answer is no, if you choose to find out for yourself by doing the homework, the answer is maybe.

I believe you missed the point, angel. There has been much said about Gor as a moral code and compass. And my point is whether that is what makes someone Gorean, or if there's more to it.

I suspect that the moral code is certainly a common theme, but that Goreans do not really believe that is what makes them uniquely Gorean. But I have an open enough mind to ask the question, and learn from the answers.

John

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Post #: 61

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:35:26 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Taking away the 'fiction' that is Gor; and instead looking at the philosophies, codes, ethics, and morals that are written into the book....and then accepting that some of those are also integrated into your own life in such a way that they are a part of the core of you....it is simply a matter of asking yourself if you wish to wear that label.

Calling a person Gorean does not change the core of that person...it only labels them.

Then by that definition, I am Gorean. And I have no issue with that.

John

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Post #: 62

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:40:05 AM

barelynangel

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I clarified more on my other post sorry Rover, i didn't realize i thought it but didn't put it in when my phone at work rang.

What i mean is, you have to figure out what the WHOLE of Gorean MEANS to you, and if you are comfortable enough with what it is as a whole to live it through the identification. If you are only doing it to claim a label, you have missed the point. Gorean isn't about being called Gorean or labeled Gorean, but when someone chooses that identity it MEANS something to them.

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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Post #: 63

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:41:46 AM

IrishMist

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Actually Rover, Miss Angel made a very valid point; one that is often made by just about everyone on these here boards...no matter what they choose to call themselves.

Answers as to who we are, what we are, what we want in life, what we have done in the past...etc etc...those all important question and answers that are asked so that we can know ourselves better can only be answered by one person....ourselves. When you look deep inside yourself, you can find the answers. That is what she was trying to say...I think....Angel, please correct me if I am wrong

oppsss...she beat me to the punch

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 11/7/2008 7:42:32 AM >

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Post #: 64

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:48:17 AM

colouredin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Looks can be deceiving. The problem is, too many people want to not do the indepth homework of understanding but decide cliff note version based on websites or reading the plot etc gives them an idea of what people who live Gorean are, and what it means to them to identify. Then, like the op here, when they don't really want to discuss it with people who really could care less about understanding *for if they really wanted to understand they would simply do the homework), people get their knickers in a twist and come to others who don't ID as Gorean to ask them what they think ABOUT Goreans lol. People believe that Goreans owe them an explanation because well hell they want to know and get upset and stomp off to get misinformation, when they are told do a little work and find your answers from the discussions already been had, then come back and ask questions based on what you have learned. Which btw is what happened with the OP, only she didn't want to do the homework.

angel

This is something that interests me actually, i know that going out and doing your own work is something that Goreans believe strongly in, thats fine, i personally have read many of the books, have gorean friends etc, my issue wasnt actually to learn more about Gorean's it was simply that I believe the differances are not as pronounced as people make out. And why i put it here? well im actually not just discussing Goreans alone, i was wanting Goreans to state what they percieve as the differances between the two from the own understanding just as i wanted people who identify with D/s to state theirs in the hopes that both sides could increase awareness of each other. that hasnt happened, some have insulted goreans, some people who identify with D/s have made some great points about the differneces they see and one or two Goreans have spoke about what goreans are, they havent actually answered the question. I didnt want it to be about attacks and therefore about people defending themselves it was a desire fr personal enlightenment and the dispelling of myths. You see I actually dont like prejudice it rather upsets me.

Now my issue with the do your homework thing is how can you know what i have or havent read, you dont know the motivation behind the post thats fine thats why i have made it more explicit. However Barelyanangel if you genuienly wanted people to only go and do their homework then you would never ask a question yourself, yesterday you asked one re the election, one that had you done your homework would have seen the answer to, so how come the desire to learn for yourself is only in relation to Gorean topics, if its a philosophy shouldnt it be applied to life?

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Post #: 65

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:49:13 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

What i mean is, you have to figure out what the WHOLE of Gorean MEANS to you, and if you are comfortable enough with what it is as a whole to live it through the identification.

I have been told that *being* Gorean means adherence to a strong moral and ethical standard. And anyone that knows me real time knows that's the case with me. If the "whole" of being Gorean is something more detailed, it wasn't expressed that way in this thread.

quote:

If you are only doing it to claim a label, you have missed the point. Gorean isn't about being called Gorean or labeled Gorean, but when someone chooses that identity it MEANS something to them.

I readily accept any label that describes me. And evidently Gorean describes my moral and ethical foundation quite well. So I have no issue accepting the label of Gorean as meaningful to me.

John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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Post #: 66

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:53:38 AM

barelynangel

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Okay let me ask you this John, why do you want to identify as Gorean?

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Post #: 67

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:57:49 AM

OrionTheWolf

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My take on it is that some people identified internally with the philosophies combined into the stories. Each person will have a different perspective and priorty of which parts they identify with more. Many have not mentioned that one of the cornerstones is the ideal of "Home Stone", which embodies personal sovereignty and responsibility, but also describes allegiance to a community.

There are many things about Gor that you will not see discussed as often as others, because it takes a deeper understanding of thing the author is actually writing about. This is also why it is difficult to answer some of the questions such as "Why are you Gorean?"

Others missed the philosophy and see a world of Male Supremacy, and since they do not have any individual traits that they excel at, they point to their dick and say "I am superior because I was born with this.". Again I say this is completely against the idea of individual merit, which is a Gorean principle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Your only misinterpretation is stating that the ambition was to teach or show something, when the ambition/goal was really to just write a Sci Fi novel.

And I am glad to hear that. It begs the question, then: why have these novels rallied so many people in search of meaning to their lives and relationships - cue colouredin's original post? Why Gor? It's not even well written. I ask this question because I'm curious to hear your take on it.

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Post #: 68

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 7:58:28 AM

SimplyMichael

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The best way to understand Gor isn't to read the books, is to just visit the Gor forum for a quick read. Pretty much tells you all you need to know. I prefer my fantasy based lifestyle of being a sick pervert who beats women, has no honor, and who wouldn't stand up for a woman, etc.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 69

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:00:00 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The best way to understand Gor isn't to read the books, is to just visit the Gor forum for a quick read. Pretty much tells you all you need to know. I prefer my fantasy based lifestyle of being a sick pervert who beats women, has no honor, and who wouldn't stand up for a woman, etc.

Mmmmmmmmmmm so hot !!

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Post #: 70

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:04:17 AM

SimplyMichael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Okay let me ask you this John, why do you want to identify as Gorean?

This is a debate for men, you women should stay out of it (said in my best Gorean accent) but sadly, what Rover is doing is a bit over your head.

Gorean's want to blather on about what individuals they are all while blathering on about how important it is to read the books, which is odd since none of them can agree on what the fuck the books mean, which is the point Rover is driving at. If it is all about being an individual and being responsible for yourself, then you could be a Buddhist pacifist and be Gorean. Being Gorean is the sexual equivalent of Objectivism.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 71

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:06:21 AM

IrishMist

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This is a general reply but mostly aimed at the whole discussion that has taken place.

It has been MY experience that ONLINE message boards are a horrid place for discussing the similarities or differences between those who are Gorean and those who are Master/slave/Dominant/submissive. Not because those involved don’t want to discuss such things; but because too often the most ‘telling’ definition of Gorean is that of those who role play online. A good example is an email from a male who proclaims himself “Gorean” and sends a message to a female that says “on your knees now”. This is a perfect example of role play. It is not a good example of a Gorean male.

Goreans are as polite as the person whom they are talking to; whether in person or online.

Please note that when I use the word Goreans, I am referring to those who DO NOT ROLE PLAY. Goreans know the difference between fantasy and reality; just the same as many of those who insult or put down Goreans do.

I may not be as passionate or outspoken about it as some people are; but, my late husband was Gorean. I learned from him; so many of my own beliefs are rooted in HIS BELIEFS and how HE did things. Not how a group of Goreans did things, but how he did things.

Now yes, many of the philosophies in the books go against what others believe in. But hey, that’s life and that’s people. No one has to accept or agree with another whos opinions differ. The difference of opinion is what makes everyone unique; even within the Gorean communities. These differences are not what causes so much dissention. It is HOW online communites view Goreans; and sadly, thanks to the role players; that image is not a good one.

Just my thoughts on it.

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Post #: 72

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:09:43 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Okay let me ask you this John, why do you want to identify as Gorean?

Why would it matter? Would you ask that question of someone who calls themselves a Dominant or submissive?

I consider it a descriptive term that does not define me, but describes me. Same as Dominant. And in the case of Gorean, it describes my ethical and moral compass.

John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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Post #: 73

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:09:45 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Hi Rover,

It takes something more, but anyone can claim the identity. Come over and read some of the more serious topics, and decide if this is something you want to look into more. If so, then read the series. If not, being Gorean does not make one "better" and many Goreans admire those that seriously look at Gor and say "this is not for me" because it means you have truly examined yourself. There are many that do not claim Gorean, but exhibit many of the qualities that are consider part of the philosphies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Fast Reply to no one in particular....

I have a very well developed sense of right and wrong, a highly tuned moral compass, a personal code of ethics that is the equal of any group out there. Based on that, can I *be* Gorean? Or does it require something more?

John

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Post #: 74

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:10:56 AM

Rover

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Shhhhhhh.

John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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Post #: 75

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:19:38 AM

MadRabbit

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Well, as I read the thread, I see two contradicting points.

On one hand, there is the claim that Gorean is something that can't be substantiated or quantified into words and has no inherent meaning outside of what individuals define it as.

On the other hand, I see people who are quite comfortable apparently judging who is and who is not "Gorean" based on apparently a greater understanding of the books that they can't tell us about, but we have to find out on our own in our own personal journey to make sure we are this label that only we can define.

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Post #: 76

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:21:12 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Home Stone, caste, and natural order (as defined in the series) are the foundations of being Gorean. the first two the majority of Goreans usually agree on and good discussions on expanding the understanding of them are often had. The last one is where many have points of contention, and differeing views, because they see the word natural and do not want to dig any further into the understanding of it based upon the series. I recommend read some back issues of an Ezine called the Gorean Voice, as there are some very good articles in it, especially by a Gorean named Marcus. You could also look up some essays by another Gorean named Luther, as he has some good ones written as well. None of these encompass the entirety of the Gorean philosophy, as the fundamental is about living life and not defining it, which may seem contrary to having discussions about it.

I hope the questions and comments continue, that are made with a sincere goal of understanding and civil discussion.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Post #: 77

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:22:38 AM

IronBear

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From a Gorean perspective, Honour, Integrety, Loyalty, Duty, Courage, Family, nature (and the conservation of nature) are key elements and the foundation of their being. Yet others also echo these values who are not Gorean per se.

Honour, Integrety, Loyalty, Duty, Courage, and Honesty are the mark of a MAN. This is Gorean and yet there are many men who follow these creeds and are not Gorean.

A Gorean MAN will draw a line in the sand and stand that line to defend it with his life if needs be. (Obviously the cause will be one worthy of such an action and may simply be a princlple which is deemed to valuable to not defend). There are many MEN who will do thus and many have died dpoing it too. They are not Gorean.

Whilst many meet the Gorean standard, many simply have identified differently or just wish not to adopot any lable. This is understandable for many seeing the anti-Gor bias which is prevelent in some areas or locations. All these people tend to be tollerant of those who stand out and show similar valuse to themselves and respect another's lable. Are YOU Gorean? Only you can tell. Many have discovered Gor and immiatly healt they were "Home". I was one and being "Home" I met some wonderfull people who patiently taught and aided my development in becomming a Master of slavesas well as understanding the subtleties of the philosophical aspects of Gor and the Historical areas from whih Gor was drawn and the civilizations at their greatest points where these principles were demonstrated. After leaving the Gorean Lifestyle I discovered even more people who could have been accepted as Gorean but like me needed something different. Goreans and even ex-Goreans have no need to justify their existance or their actions. I do what I do because I can, because it is right in my view and because it would be dishonourable not to do so.

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Post #: 78

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:23:26 AM

OrionTheWolf

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I do not speak for others, but unless they are obviously just a role player, I do not challenge anyone's right to label themselves Gorean. I in fact a huge opponent of what I call "The Gorean Police".

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Well, as I read the thread, I see two contradicting points.

On one hand, there is the claim that Gorean is something that can't be substantiated or quantified into words and has no inherent meaning outside of what individuals define it as.

On the other hand, I see people who are quite comfortable apparently judging who is and who is not "Gorean" based on apparently a greater understanding of the books that they can't tell us about, but we have to find out on our own in our own personal journey to make sure we are this label that only we can define.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 79

RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:24:54 AM

missturbation

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quote:

but unless they are obviously just a role player,

Could you define what you mean by role player?

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Post #: 80

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