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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:26:58 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		An example is Second Life Role Players. There are many people that just go to a chatroom and pretend to be a persona from the series. Many of these people enjoy M/s relationships and use Gor as a theme.


quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

but unless they are obviously just a role player,


Could you define what you mean by role player?


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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:33:47 AM   
missturbation


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From: another planet
Status: offline 		Thank you.
I think that there are many all over the boards who could be classed as role players.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:36:24 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		So, are role players all fakes  ? The plot thickens!

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:37:01 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for responding, Orion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Hi Rover,

It takes something more, but anyone can claim the identity.


That's my point... that it takes something more.  That this portrayal of Gor as simply a reliance upon an ethical and moral code is fluff.  Sure, it's part of what Goreans believe as a requisite to *be* Gorean.  But it's far from all that is required.  And unlike BDSM, Goreans have no issue isolating and denying those that claim to *be* Gorean, but do not "measure up" to their satisfaction.

quote:


Come over and read some of the more serious topics, and decide if this is something you want to look into more.


I've been there, and discussed the matter with some learned Goreans, one of whom also monitors the forum.  If they cannot adequately convey these principles, no one can.

quote:


If so, then read the series.


Why would I need to read the series in order to *be* Gorean?  I have already been told that the series merely provided context to what folks already knew about themselves, and how they lived their lives.  In fact, IrishMist said:

quote:


Goreans center their lives around honor, integrity, loyalty, and a strong sense of family and home ( family and home can encomapss their friends and their cities or country )
It just so happens that the books also use the same ethics and morals;  those who embraced this were already Gorean, they just found a name for it through the books.


Evidently Goreans did not "need" the books.  Besides, barelynangel said:

quote:


makes a person Gorean is the actual choice to identify as same. 


She didn't mention any requirement beyond the choice to identify as Gorean.  And having a strong sense of honor, dignity, morality, integrity, loyalty, etc. I would embrace the label "Gorean", if that's what it means.

quote:


If not, being Gorean does not make one "better" and many Goreans admire those that seriously look at Gor and say "this is not for me" because it means you have truly examined yourself. There are many that do not claim Gorean, but exhibit many of the qualities that are consider part of the philosphies.


Even that sentiment does not preclude an obvious portrayal of superiority.  If that is not the intention, it cannot be blamed entirely upon the misperceptions of others.  There must be some grain of truth to it.
 
Any philosophy that espouses a "natural order" that is applied to all of mankind (as opposed to individual relationships) has an inherent sense of superiority.  That's unavoidable and self-evident, for gender superiority or Gor or anything that professes the same.
 
John

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:39:02 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		lol John,

I wasn't asking you that question for myself.  I could care less what you call yourself, but being Gorean means more than a shrug saying okay it sounds good, i will call myself same.

I know you are trying to trap me into some concept of understanding, but you won't.  Until you choose to understand what i am saying instead of being more concerned with trying to make it so anyone who wants to can claim they are Gorean without knowing anything about it or doing their homework on same but instead want to be spoon fed by interpretations by others, you won't get it, but then again, i don't believe you care if you do or don't and that to me is why you can't BE Gorean, cause you have to give a damn enough to actually put some effort into defining it yourself not the "but i heard".

angel



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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:44:19 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
Until you choose to understand what i am saying instead of being more concerned with trying to make it so anyone who wants to can claim they are Gorean without knowing anything about it or doing their homework on same but instead want to be spoon fed by interpretations by others, you won't get it, but then again, i don't believe you care if you do or don't and that to me is why you can't BE Gorean, cause you have to give a damn enough to actually put some effort into defining it yourself not the "but i heard".


Translation, please? You know... it would help greatly if you used commas every once in a while, because I have absolutely no idea what the above passage means.

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:44:25 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		How else will you know whether the series "provided context to what folks already knew about themselves, and how they lived their lives." ?

There could be something in the series that you are very opposed to, and if you rely on someone else's interpretation then you would also be allowing them to define you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Why would I need to read the series in order to *be* Gorean?  I have already been told that the series merely provided context to what folks already knew about themselves, and how they lived their lives.  In fact, IrishMist said:



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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:44:52 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
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From: another planet
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

So, are role players all fakes  ? The plot thickens!


Shit!!
Yes, no, yes, no, yes, nolol
I have no idea

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:46:40 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		No not all are, as some that live by the philosphies may also enjoy role playing it. These are in the extreme minority, in my opinion. I have met some that have been exposed to Gor through role playing, and then dug deeper to understand more than just the trappings.

There are no absolutes. Another lesson within the Gor series.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

So, are role players all fakes  ? The plot thickens!


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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:48:35 AM   
UmbraDomina


Posts: 491
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: SE Michigan
Status: offline 		I always figgured, when I could go to my travel agent and book a flight to Gor, I would then explore it. :)

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:48:55 AM   
theobserver


Posts: 456
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Being Gorean is the sexual equivalent of Objectivism.


Wow Michael, no wonder Founders college failed. Loved this statement!


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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:52:55 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I think the attraction of Gor is multifold. The idea of belonging to a group with a commonality of purpose (as luscious expanded, this phenomenon is found in most organised religions) is attractive to many individuals. Football fans, knitting circles, PTA groups... its' all over the place. There is also an inherent attraction to the notion that there is some kind of "natural order". This is reassuring: it provides a convenient frame of reference, especially in our seemingly supple world, with its disappearing traditional structures. This allows Gor followers to find their "place" in their world. It's a logical step, really. I also believe that notwithstanding Orion's opinion that the Gor hierarchy isn't dependent upon gender ("dominance is genderless", or something to that effect), it looks to me that the way Gor interprets biology is very much gender orientated. This is confirmed by everything I have read on the forum boards.

I realise many will disagree with my interpretation, but I stick by it, damnit :-) .

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:54:57 AM   
MadRabbit


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Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

lol John,

I wasn't asking you that question for myself.  I could care less what you call yourself, but being Gorean means more than a shrug saying okay it sounds good, i will call myself same.

I know you are trying to trap me into some concept of understanding, but you won't.  Until you choose to understand what i am saying instead of being more concerned with trying to make it so anyone who wants to can claim they are Gorean without knowing anything about it or doing their homework on same but instead want to be spoon fed by interpretations by others, you won't get it, but then again, i don't believe you care if you do or don't and that to me is why you can't BE Gorean, cause you have to give a damn enough to actually put some effort into defining it yourself not the "but i heard".

angel




If you have an ambiguous entity that cannot be defined into clearly linear terms and is subjective to personal interpretation, then anyone can be Gorean and make Gorean what they want to be.

If they can't and "have to read the books to figure out what Gorean is" then there is, in fact, some clear set of objective standards and definitions that makes Gorean Gorean and the label is not subjective to personal interpretation. If there wasn't and it's all about subjective personal definition, then being Gorean won't be dependent on objective information in the books.

It just seems no one can really define it into clear and logical terms everyone can understand without telling them to read the books to make sure they are correctly this thing that only they can define for themselves. Then people wonder why "Goreans" are misunderstood.

From reading your posts, apparently Goreans don't even know for sure what Goreans are.

Edited to Add : Hypothetically, if I read the books and the personal interpretation I came to was that I should be submissive to women, would this be an acceptable definition of Gorean?

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 11/7/2008 8:57:30 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:59:20 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19
As for myself, I have always lived outside of guidelines.


This is Darcy

I don't know about living outside of guidelines, as such. I have guidelines for my life, they just might not be the same as your guidelines (and I use this generally, Luscious, not as a personal repsonse to you).

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:59:29 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

lol John,

I wasn't asking you that question for myself.  I could care less what you call yourself, but being Gorean means more than a shrug saying okay it sounds good, i will call myself same.


I don't doubt that a bit.  Morality, integrity, honor, etc. are in short supply these days.  And it is no small thing to live up to those concepts in our daily lives.

quote:


I know you are trying to trap me into some concept of understanding, but you won't. Until you choose to understand what i am saying instead of being more concerned with trying to make it so anyone who wants to can claim they are Gorean without knowing anything about it or doing their homework on same but instead want to be spoon fed by interpretations by others, you won't get it, but then again, i don't believe you care if you do or don't and that to me is why you can't BE Gorean, cause you have to give a damn enough to actually put some effort into defining it yourself not the "but i heard".


It seems the plot thickens.  What interpretations are necessary?  Why would I need to be spoon fed anything about honor, integrity, morality, etc?  And why are you already telling me that I can't *be* Gorean?  I put quite a bit more than a "damn" into who I am.
 
John

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 8:59:54 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

trying to make it so anyone who wants to can claim they are Gorean without knowing anything about it or doing their homework on same but instead want to be spoon fed by interpretations by others, you won't get it, but then again, i don't believe you care if you do or don't and that to me is why you can't BE Gorean, cause you have to give a damn enough to actually put some effort into defining it yourself not the "but i heard".

angel



Which is why Gor is so amusing to me.  If I have to study someone else's thoughts then where is the individualism in that?  Oh, but then you add the "put some effort into defining it" but which is it?  Which is why I find Gor the playground for people who love definitions over action, confinement over freedom, they are in bondage to another's thoughts, all while yelling "I am free".


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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 9:00:28 AM   
colouredin


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Joined: 2/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I know you are trying to trap me into some concept of understanding, but you won't.  Until you choose to understand what i am saying instead of being more concerned with trying to make it so anyone who wants to can claim they are Gorean without knowing anything about it or doing their homework on same but instead want to be spoon fed by interpretations by others, you won't get it, but then again, i don't believe you care if you do or don't and that to me is why you can't BE Gorean, cause you have to give a damn enough to actually put some effort into defining it yourself not the "but i heard".

angel




I didnt see it as a trap, i think as has been pointed out His point was that there has to be something more substantial than simply a moral code because as Orian said many people can have the same morals and ethics and not ascribe to the label Gorean. I think the concern was the implication that only Goreans have the moral code.

Also anyone can be what they want to, again as others have said if there isnt a comman reason for being Gorean aside from the morals and ethics anyone with them can call themselves Gorean without having picked up a book.

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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 9:02:20 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

How else will you know whether the series "provided context to what folks already knew about themselves, and how they lived their lives." ?

There could be something in the series that you are very opposed to, and if you rely on someone else's interpretation then you would also be allowing them to define you.


Why would I need anyone to interpret honor, morality, integrity, loyalty, etc for me?  In fact, I would say that if someone needs another to define that for them, they probably have very little.
 
John

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Sri da Avabhas

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 9:04:06 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Discussion has been enjoyable. If anyone has any specific questions for me, just Cmail me.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: The differance between lifestyles - 11/7/2008 9:05:54 AM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline 		Folks, It should go without saying that you should not use this thread as a venue to bash a lifestyle you may not agree with, but clearly it still needs to be said.  If you're here to engage in that behavior, it would behoove you to rethink your decision.

Thank you.

XI


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