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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 3:59:02 AM   
rosanegra


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Iraq is BS.

I AGREE WITH THIS.

HOWEVER!

The soldiers fighting over there, in large part, did not sign up to fight in Iraq. A lot of them actually signed up in the aftermath of 9/11, and the ensuing insanity that took place in Afghanistan.

I happen to think Afghanistan IS a place we needed to go.

You may disagree, you may not.. but regardless, if the US military disintegrated, do you HONESTLY believe no one would attack us?

SO, if nobody signed up to be in the military, we'd be SCREWED.

So it is perfectly possible to join knowing you will probably go to Iraq, but for the reason you join to be because this country needs a military, whether we have reason to use it or not.

It is a matter of being there for the sake of defense.

So, attack the war all you want...

But shut the hell up about the soldiers, because you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.


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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 4:07:03 AM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

But shut the hell up about the soldiers

not to be unrespectfull, but why? (It doesn't have to be personal of course)
Many countries have a professional army, the soldiers know their risk and they know that they can be used for the reason their goverment "think" is right.
Besides the goverment they are one of the groups that volenteer for their purpose, not

ps. I am damn glad they excist though. And we in Europe own them a lott.

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 11/12/2008 4:08:24 AM >

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 4:31:50 AM   
RCdc


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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 4:35:19 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosanegra

But shut the hell up about the soldiers, because you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.



When people put a uniform on and fight, they fight in the name of all those people that are against a conflict, not just those people for it. One of the most effective ways politicians have of getting people to conform and not criticize their aggressive policies is to tell people against a war, they are betraying their soldiers.

Soldiers are no different from anyone else, they have access to the same information and they make choices. I don't need to know about soldiers but I probably know a damn sight more than you think I know.

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 5:11:23 AM   
rosanegra


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Status: offline 		Just because I refuse to spit on the name of anyone willing to defend me does not mean I am conforming or supporting a war I disagree with. In fact, if that is the goal of politicians making aggressive policies.. it backfired with me. I feel more strongly AGAINST the war BECAUSE I support the soldiers. Being pro-soldier has absolutely nothing to do with your feelings about the war, which is obviously something that isn't sinking in to your head.

I interact with soldiers on a daily basis. I've taken care of their children. I hang out with them, their wives, their families. I live with one, when our situation allows us to actually be together.

Yet 2 1/2 years ago, I went to Washington DC to protest this insanity. I was in a wheel chair because of an injury I'd recently sustained. It was exhausting, but I was there because I believed in showing my distaste for the way in which this country was using the people who were willing to sacrifice a part of their life to protect it. I would go again, if I was able.. I feel even more strongly against what we are doing today than I did then.

That doesn't mean I don't recognize the need for the job my husband does, even if the sense of duty inspiring him and his brothers is allowing them to be used and abused.

Soldiers ARE different from everybody else. They are the ones with the backbone to stand up and fight for what they believe in... but trust me, most of them would rather not HAVE to.

Soldiers are remarkably enough, more often than not, just as anti-war as anybody else, if not moreso. What a war means to you is that you get something to bitch about, criticize other people for, and you might possibly feel some economic strain.

What a war means for a soldier is a risk to their life, less time spent with their loved ones, and seeing things that no human being should ever have to.

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/32/l_f1b1c6f1f4a84d18872018367b293e51.jpg

That is the symbol of what I wish for. A time in which we can have both freedom and peace. A time when we choose to build instead of destroy. I feel so passionately about it that I had it put on my body permanently. Until Utopia exists, however, we will have a military, and politicians will remain corrupt and use that military in ways they probably should not.

If you think soldiers want war, want to go to war, get off on killing or being in danger, or any of the other things I've seen you express here... then you obviously know a damn sight less than you think you do.



< Message edited by rosanegra -- 11/12/2008 5:12:04 AM >

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 5:20:45 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		I dont think anyone but a fool or a psycho or a total naive would want to be in a war situation; and I would suggest those three categories are unlikely to be in one or at least not in one for too long.

But I do believe there is a certain kudos to being in the forces which attracts many, plus the attraction of playing with "big boys' toys"; thereafter its the camaraderie and friendships that keep people there and which plays a vital role in their effective teamwork to keep one another alive whilst fulfilling their mission. There is excitement too of course - the same one might get from any extremes of human experience - but not the sort one finds at the theme park; one cannot get off this particular ride when the bullets start flying, and whilst its excitement I dont doubt, its an excitement that can get real old, real fast - and then its just non stop stress.

E

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 5:23:43 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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Status: offline 		nothing against soldiers, but i would never join up to get killed in some other country regardless of the reason.

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 7:24:22 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

nothing against soldiers, but i would never join up to get killed in some other country regardless of the reason.

No soldier ever does.  That includes the ones who don't come back.


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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 7:29:13 AM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		Stupid yes,but at least there`s all that Youtube footage of heads being blown off and cool stuff like that for the arm-chair warriors watch,over and over and over and..........

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 7:36:53 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I dont think anyone but a fool or a psycho or a total naive would want to be in a war situation; and I would suggest those three categories are unlikely to be in one or at least not in one for too long.



I remember some ship's officer at the beginning of the Falklands war said to a TV interviewer, 'I believed the advertisement and only joined the Navy to see the world. Well, I guess I'm going to see the Falklands now but I'm sure they never mentioned war in the advertisement.'

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 7:42:08 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

Actually, what fucking war? You are younger than me so there has been no war fought by Britain that could have been remotely about my freedom.

Are you saying that had we of lost WWII you would not have been affected in any shape or form?
 
The thing that pisses me off about war is when we get involved in war's that are not our fight. Go to war to defend the Great Britain /uk yes, anyone else no.
 



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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 7:51:52 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

Actually, what fucking war? You are younger than me so there has been no war fought by Britain that could have been remotely about my freedom.

Are you saying that had we of lost WWII you would not have been affected in any shape or form?
 
The thing that pisses me off about war is when we get involved in war's that are not our fight. Go to war to defend the Great Britain /uk yes, anyone else no. 
 


I was answering the bloke who said he had shed blood for my freedom and he turned out to be younger than me, about 46 I think so I assume the war he must be talking about is the Falklands. If so, that was a war about national ego, not about freedom.

If he was talking about Northern Ireland, he still wasn't fighting for me because that was a civil war, both sides were British, even if one side didn't want to be and rejects the label.

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 7:53:45 AM   
missturbation


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Status: offline 		Oops my bad, sorry

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 7:54:50 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Stupid yes,but at least there`s all that Youtube footage of heads being blown off and cool stuff like that for the arm-chair warriors watch,over and over and over and..........


I really really hope that was sarcasm.


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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 8:26:20 AM   
Owner59


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You have no idea about this ,do you?

Who do you think is raking up the hits on those vids?

I know more than a few people who watch them and not just on Youtube.

One fellow has three sons,all tall and strong and in their very early 20s..Does this Iraq war supporter I know intend on sending his sons there?

They`re all going to college.I`m happy for them.

I know more than a few Iraq war supporters like that.

The few stand up guys/families, are the few in Iraq now,doing tour after tour after tour,for nothing.





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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 8:32:41 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

You have no idea about this ,do you?


My comment was meant to ask if you were being sarcastic about how 'cool' these clips were. Not about whether they existed or not, i'm sure they do.
As for clueless, im afraid i think it is you who may be that. Do you have any idea how insensitive your comment was to those who have had to see the atrocities you so flippantly remarked on?
 
A friend of mine came back from Afghan in May and is seeing a therapist. He wakes sweating and crying, his dreams making him relive atrocities he has seen. Dogs walking around with human heads in their mouths, bodies blown to bits.
 
Whether you agree with the watching of these things on youtube or not i find your remark disgusting. That someone could make such a flippant uncaring remark is beyond me.



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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 9:14:36 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		I think you are missing 59's point.

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 9:24:36 AM   
missturbation


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Status: offline 		I don't think i am. I have no objections to his point. I object to the original way he made the point. It was insensitive to those who have seen the atrocities of war.

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 10:34:28 AM   
AMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AMaster

I can't wait to see the edited version of corysybs post!


OK,  Good point, well expressed, worth watiting for!

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RE: War is fucking stupid! - 11/12/2008 10:47:50 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

nothing against soldiers, but i would never join up to get killed in some other country regardless of the reason.

No soldier ever does.  That includes the ones who don't come back.



let me put it another way...i wonb't join up...period. IMHO no land is worht fying for and no goverment is either.


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