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RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/18/2008 10:30:43 AM

MsStarlett

Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

One time a month, in order to get to My 'new' voicemails, I have to listen through the ones I have saved. Some of them are literally years old. I've kept one from each of the submissives that I felt were important in My life since moving here.

I think that is amazingly sweet! Gee. This is the first time I ever was unhappy about not having a cell phone.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 81

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/18/2008 10:39:38 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett
I think that is amazingly sweet! Gee. This is the first time I ever was unhappy about not having a cell phone.

Yes, it is sweet and romantic. So that tells me that your romantic component and BDSM component are at work there ;-)

I also appreciate mementos and fond memories, and persons with whom I shared these fond memories even if time has now put us apart.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 82

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/18/2008 10:49:05 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Ok, before either of you ruin My rep by extolling how sweet I am, let's put this in check. Remember, I'm the big, bad, sadistic Dominant of OZ. (Pay no attention to that woman behind the curtain.)

Please remember that a fondness or an attachment does not necessarily equate romantic love. There are many different types of "love," some of which have absolutely nothing to do with romance.

PS. Thanks for the idea for the new sig line.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 11/18/2008 10:51:09 AM >

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 83

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/18/2008 11:10:12 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Please remember that a fondness or an attachment does not necessarily equate romantic love. There are many different types of "love," some of which have absolutely nothing to do with romance.

I agree with your point.

Within masochism, I distinguish between status-based masochism and discomfort-based masochism. Perhaps I need a similar distinction in the romantic/companionship component, or perhaps I need a different name altogther with romance/companionship as one sub-component. This model or description is still being defined.

The part of the human psyche I refer to there is the part that wants to love and be loved. I make this statement on the basis that humans are social creatures and social and physical contact is essential for their well being. I recall learning in a psychology class that continued lack of physical contact can have fatal results, especially in babies.

I distinguish this fundamental want to be loved from the approval the ego seeks. I consider that that is associated with the ego (to be liked) to come from the conscious part of the psyche whereas I think the want to love or be loved comes from deeper parts of the psyche. Indeed this love is not just romantic and has different forms.

In any case, when I used the word romantic, I meant that the activity in question is what a romantic might do. For instance, my tendency to do little things to honor a woman, or the significance I give to the first time something occurs to come from the mind of a romantic.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 84

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/18/2008 11:16:47 AM

MsStarlett

Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

When all is said and done, we are all still men and women. We all have emotions and those are very important in any relationship. Sometimes, it's the little things that trigger the strongest emotions.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 85

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/18/2008 11:54:39 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
I agree with your point.

Within masochism, I distinguish between status-based masochism and discomfort-based masochism. Perhaps I need a similar distinction in the romantic/companionship component, or perhaps I need a different name altogther with romance/companionship as one sub-component. This model or description is still being defined.

The part of the human psyche I refer to there is the part that wants to love and be loved. I make this statement on the basis that humans are social creatures and social and physical contact is essential for their well being. I recall learning in a psychology class that continued lack of physical contact can have fatal results, especially in babies.

I distinguish this fundamental want to be loved from the approval the ego seeks. I consider that that is associated with the ego (to be liked) to come from the conscious part of the psyche whereas I think the want to love or be loved comes from deeper parts of the psyche. Indeed this love is not just romantic and has different forms.

In any case, when I used the word romantic, I meant that the activity in question is what a romantic might do. For instance, my tendency to do little things to honor a woman, or the significance I give to the first time something occurs to come from the mind of a romantic.

Cheers,

Sea

I feel you have a great advantage over Me here, Sea. Although minute, you've had at least a brief exposure to the dynamic between clip and I, though you may not have paid attention to it at the time. It's often been said that we have one of the most loving dynamics that some have seen, and many aspire to have for themselves. I find it to be a great compliment.

Yet, I would have to ask you, having met us. Where did you see the romance? At what time did you see us from across the room and think to yourself that they are "in love," rather than they feel love for one another? When I brought My boy to you to make sure you were properly introduced, what was your assessment? Did you see romance there, or possibly something else, such as devotion? Perhaps these very questions and the answers you give for yourself will help you to define those very definitions you are still working on for yourself.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 86

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/18/2008 2:17:59 PM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Yet, I would have to ask you, having met us. Where did you see the romance? At what time did you see us from across the room and think to yourself that they are "in love," rather than they feel love for one another?

I did not form any impressions that you two were in romantic love.

Perhaps romantic is a misleading word and sentimental better conveys the, umm, sentiment behind what I meant ;-)

As for defining the different components including romantic/companionate love, I make reference to the sum needs or wants of a person, which may or may not come from one relationship. For instance, if one has a significant want for romantic companionship and is in a relationship that feeds masochism only, one would either feel unfulfilled over time, or would need to have another relationship that fulfills the want for romantic companionship.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 11/18/2008 2:19:07 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 87

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/18/2008 4:03:33 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Seems that's clear, Sea. What I don't quite get is that surely there's still a non-D/s attraction/affection/love between partners in a nominally D/s relationship. Why doesn't that just "kick in" when the domina wants 'downtime'?

I would be happy to share my take on it.

As I introspect, I see different parts of me and identifying these parts has helped me understand what appeals to the different parts. I embrace each part and seeing each part has helped me in my path to define the sum of all these parts.

At a broad level, these different parts center on romance/companionship, spirituality, ego, and masochism. Romance/companionship seeks a companion-like connection, and to express and receive affection physically and emotionally. Spirituality spans matters beyond BDSM but within BDSM I find spiritual gratification in devotion and service. Ego is the component that everyone has that wishes for respect, self-expression, success and ambition, the want to be appreciated, etc. The component I call masochism seeks a subordinate status or discomfort.

I think the first three components are common across the general population, and masochism is the extra component. I attribute my interest in BDSM to what I call the masochism component. That said, a given activity that falls under BDSM might also carry appeal for other components. For instance, for me service touches each of the components.

Most of my BDSM experiences have had a romantic flavor. They have been more like how a man meets a woman but with a BDSM flavor to some of the activities, and BDSM activities in the mix. Indeed general social activities (conversation, watching movies, going out to eat, laughter, etc.) fall in this mix.

For some people, the focus is heavily on the masochism component. Sometimes this focus is temporary (with that one person) because other components are adequately fed. Sometimes this focus exists in general because this component overshadows the other components.

I have a few more thoughts about the focus of masochism, and the balance of masochism with the other components (which relates to the subject of this thread) at a later sitting.

Cheers,

Sea

I don't think you needed to say much more than the words "As I introspect, I see different parts of me . ." , Sea. If you can even recognise that there are different parts to you, you're never going to be fixed on satiating just one kind of desire or need.

For some people, the focus is heavily on the masochism component. Sometimes this focus is temporary (with that one person) because other components are adequately fed. Sometimes this focus exists in general because this component overshadows the other components.

I couldn't allow such overshadowing in myself. Like Jung said, a man needs to contact his feminine side, but not let it overwhelm him. He used the myth of Circe turning men into pigs to illustrate . . .

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 88

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/18/2008 7:18:20 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
Perhaps romantic is a misleading word and sentimental better conveys the, umm, sentiment behind what I meant ;-)

As for defining the different components including romantic/companionate love, I make reference to the sum needs or wants of a person, which may or may not come from one relationship. For instance, if one has a significant want for romantic companionship and is in a relationship that feeds masochism only, one would either feel unfulfilled over time, or would need to have another relationship that fulfills the want for romantic companionship.

Cheers,

Sea

I am very much of the belief that we are more than the sum of our parts. Yet identifying those parts, the needs and wants we have, contribute to the whole. In all of this, I find the better purpose in each of us being fulfilled. I don't care if that means a person is a top, bottom, Domme, sub, Master, Mistress, or slave. The thing is, you have to seek what you want. When you find it, I think it is nothing short of wonderful.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 89

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 1:03:57 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
If you can even recognise that there are different parts to you, you're never going to be fixed on satiating just one kind of desire or need.

Unfortunately, what each component wants is sometimes at odd with each other. For instance, masochism might wish for treatment or a dynamic that brings unhappiness for the companionship component or ego component. Similarly, a relationship that satisfies companionship and ego very well might leave the masochism component thirsty.

I sometimes wish for a relationship that is focused on feeding the masochism component. I see this relationship to be one that has a marked power imbalance and a power distance. For instance, a houseboy dynamic is an example of such a relationship. I see such a relationship as one that is rewarding for the masochism component but do not see it as both a long-term and an exclusive relationship.

I think the idea of keeping the D/s dynamic alive is most relevant for relationships that address well the companionship component and ego component but care is required for the masochism component. The rituals or expressions of D/s during the course of life seek to nourish the BDSM components of those involved.

In an older thread, Elan made reference to a psychology model that suggests that needs that are unfulfilled receive greater priority. I expect that some who give too much focus to masochism might be addressing a need that has not received enough attention over needs that have been reasonably met or are being met elsewhere.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 11/19/2008 1:10:55 AM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 90

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 2:45:15 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
If she has to implement things "just to keep the sub happy" or adjusted, it's a slippery slope that will start to eat at the organic pleasure of her role, and eventually bite them both in the ass.

I agree that happenings of life affect energy one might be able to give to D/s, and that should be expected and accepted. I agree that assuming the role out of a sense of obligation is draining and detrimental.

I am thinking of a scenario when I was to have a date with a woman to whom I was to give a massage. Our circumstances and compatibility would have us get together a few times a year. I am thinking of an instance when I was fine with the idea of getting together for dinner and conversation but was unenthusiastic about giving the massage.

The reason is that our dynamic felt more like vanilla friends. At that time, I did not feel submissive to her. There is something that makes giving a massage to a domme different than giving it to a vanilla person that one knows, and that something was not there. I felt more like just a guy being nice with respect to giving her a massage. And I felt almost a frustration that there was no contribution to the D/s dynamic by her and that she was now appealing to the sub in me without interacting with the sub in me. I was ambivalent about what to do; was it best to be patient and suck it up and give the massage out of a sense of obligation, or was it best to tell her that I did not feel the energy.

The patience I had exercised before was not showing adequate reward. My submission to her before then mostly consisted of acts of service but the inspiration for service was coming from within me--I was not getting adequate call from her to parts within me that seek to serve. Was it best to tell her that the D/s dynamic was not working and it was time to be friends?

Amongst all that contributed to how I felt were my circumstances at the time.

So there is truth to the statement that if a domme serves out of a sense of obligation, it will be draining and may further lessen the motivation for dominance. However, if it begins and ends with the domme, the route goes through the submissive in the middle. If a submissive is not finding enough D/s reward in a relationship, he will feel discontent to that effect. If this feeling continues over time, it will affect his interest in continuing to seek D/s there. It is not a question of equality for sake of justice as much a question of practicality and reality.

Perhaps what we are discussing here are mirror scenarios: a domme who is expected to be dominant without help towards inspiration for dominance, and a sub who is expected to be submissive without help towards inspiration for submission. I think each person has to contribute to the dynamic.

I think it is also a question of compatibility. Ideally, the appetites for D/s between the two will be similar enough. Also, the statement that the domme is setting up rituals to keep the sub happy suggests that they do not carry meaning for her. While there might be some expressions that are more for the sake of one than the other, I think overall these expressions have to be meaningful to each person. For instance, if a domme feels dominant headspace when she hears her sub verbalize his submission to her (I belong to you), and this verbal affirmation is also meaningful to the sub, there we have an expression that is meaningful to both. If this expression is not meaningful to one but is to the other, perhaps it can still be done with some other expression that is meaningful to the other, with other expressions yet that are meaningful to each.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 11/19/2008 2:52:01 AM >

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 91

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 7:20:40 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

First of all, you get up entirely too early in the morning to post such well thought out comments.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
So there is truth to the statement that if a domme serves out of a sense of obligation, it will be draining and may further lessen the motivation for dominance. However, if it begins and ends with the domme, the route goes through the submissive in the middle. If a submissive is not finding enough D/s reward in a relationship, he will feel discontent to that effect. If this feeling continues over time, it will affect his interest in continuing to seek D/s there. It is not a question of equality for sake of justice as much a question of practicality and reality.

There's truth to the statement that *anyone* doing these things involved in D/s out of purely obligation is going to feel drained. In the example you gave, you didn't feel submission to the person you were going to give the massage. You felt obligation, which is exactly why you didn't want to do it. The energy wasn't there for you. That changed the way you felt about what is basically the same act.

quote:

Perhaps what we are discussing here are mirror scenarios: a domme who is expected to be dominant without help towards inspiration for dominance, and a sub who is expected to be submissive without help towards inspiration for submission. I think each person has to contribute to the dynamic.

I'd very much agree with this. Dominance isn't a hat I put on and take off. It's who I am all of the time. Still, there are people that I don't feel Dominant towards. Just like you, as a submissive, don't feel submissive to everyone. There has to be something there that sparks it. Just like fire, if it has no fuel, it's not going to burn. If you haven't fed it anything to keep it going, you're left with two choices. Either rekindle it, or let it die out.

quote:

I think it is also a question of compatibility. Ideally, the appetites for D/s between the two will be similar enough. Also, the statement that the domme is setting up rituals to keep the sub happy suggests that they do not carry meaning for her. While there might be some expressions that are more for the sake of one than the other, I think overall these expressions have to be meaningful to each person. For instance, if a domme feels dominant headspace when she hears her sub verbalize his submission to her (I belong to you), and this verbal affirmation is also meaningful to the sub, there we have an expression that is meaningful to both. If this expression is not meaningful to one but is to the other, perhaps it can still be done with some other expression that is meaningful to the other, with other expressions yet that are meaningful to each.

Cheers,

Sea

I'm of two minds on this last part. The first of which is, if we are discussing keeping a D/s dynamic alive, that compatibility should already be established. The two participants should already be aware of what their wants and needs are in D/s. If it's not there in the beginning, it's not going to be there later down the road.

My other thought on this is, this is exactly where some people miss the mark. We get so distracted by matching up the kinks and the vanilla interests that we completely forget about the actual dynamic. Somehow, we just expect it to exist without feeding it. Supposedly, it's going to live all on it's own. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. That means each participant has to contribute. They have to make the investment.

Let's put this another way. We all understand that if one person has a fetish that they live for, and the other person couldn't care less about it, we see the two as not necessarily compatible. Yet, not everyone transfers that over to D/s. How we match according to ritual and protocol, or the lack thereof, is rather important. No sub would do well in My house if simple displays of submission meant nothing. There would be no connection, no bond on a D/s level. I would certainly pick up on that, and My drive would be lost. This would start the spiral that we are really talking about here. I would be less Dominant towards him and he less submissive to Me. It's all connected.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 92

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 8:36:06 AM

ChampagneMojito

Posts: 77
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: UK
Status: offline

Really interesting thread, thanks, Sea.

Like many others, our relationship experiences peaks and troughs of D/s activity depending on what's going on in work/family/etc.

We have certain permanent 'rituals', e.g. he will always ask my permission to use the bathroom, that serve as constant reminders of the D/s authority structure, and I find vocal commands/comments very helpful also. The difference between saying 'thanks, love' and 'good boy' when a cup of tea is brought, for example, is huge and I love seeing the submissive glaze quickly come into his eyes.

I find when we're going through a period of frequent D/s activity, it tends to come more naturally than if we've just gone through a lull, but allocating time to be intimate in some way (could be a night with him in his collar on speech restrictions or a full-on scene) always reminds us both why the D/s element is so cherished in our relationship.

One final thing I would add is that I find my boy's words and actions equally important in keeping the D/s structure active in our lives. It's as much his responsibility to say 'Mistress, may i please bring you a cup of tea?' rather than 'Do you want a cuppa?' as it is mine to say 'I would like you to make me a cup of tea, slave' rather than 'Would you do us a favour and make me a cuppa?'.

_____________________________

I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naïve or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman. ~Anaïs Nin

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 93

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 9:05:14 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

Sorry, finger slipped again!

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 11/19/2008 9:06:27 AM >

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 94

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 9:43:40 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

Sea,

I have to agree with Lady Pact that such a well thought-out response is quite an achievement, whether written so soon after getting up or so near to a very late bedtime!

Unfortunately, what each component wants is sometimes at odd with each other. For instance, masochism might wish for treatment or a dynamic that brings unhappiness for the companionship component or ego component. Similarly, a relationship that satisfies companionship and ego very well might leave the masochism component thirsty.

True. Your definitions of the essential 'parts' of a submissive/masochistic psyche work for me, too. The fact that these can be at odds with each other also chime. To me, though, they're not insuperable problems. I'd envisage them being resolvable within a D/s relationship without too many problems - for myself, and perhaps many others.

The next bit also resonates for me; but, therein lies a worry. You say,

I sometimes wish for a relationship that is focused on feeding the masochism component. I see this relationship to be one that has a marked power imbalance and a power distance. For instance, a houseboy dynamic is an example of such a relationship. I see such a relationship as one that is rewarding for the masochism component but do not see it as both a long-term and an exclusive relationship.

It's that phrase 'power distance' that's been bothering me. Now, I don't know what you mean by that, but I took it to imply a power relationship between a dominant who is at an emotional distance to you. That's the masochistic tendency that cannot help but cause difficulties, it seems to me, because it's a kind of masochism that depends upon a level of "non-relationship" with the dominant. There are tones of this everywhere I've seen amongst subs. Those fantasies of a cold, remote queen, or of a goddess who's (by definition) inhuman - they all carry it. On the flip-side, dominas can tap into that desire for remoteness in a sub with, say, pictures of themselves looking remote and cold. But supposing this remoteness is at an extreme for both dominant and submissive? It must, surely, mean that its appeasement can't happen unless such a dominant and a submissive have almost nothing of a relationship between them!

Either that, or both submissive and dominant work, within their relationship, towards becoming quite adept at switching from warm and close, to cold and remote.

It's funny, but I was only reminded of certain desires for such 'remote power' (if I'm using that phrase in the way you mean it) upon reading your comment. It seems they've diminished a lot in me over the years. So my own way past that dilemma isn't a major issue. Lucky me.

Yet: Hell's bells. I'm becoming more convinced by the day of this: you can't go into a D/s relationship with an ossified mind-set, can you?

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 95

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 9:46:26 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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My other thought on this is, this is exactly where some people miss the mark. We get so distracted by matching up the kinks and the vanilla interests that we completely forget about the actual dynamic. Somehow, we just expect it to exist without feeding it. Supposedly, it's going to live all on it's own. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. That means each participant has to contribute. They have to make the investment.

Etched on brain. Thanks LP.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 96

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 9:50:15 AM

MsStarlett

Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

Y'all are just gett'n to wordy for me.

When I want my semi subby hubby to do what I want.... I just hand him the pink electric razor. He knows what to do from there.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 97

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 9:57:42 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

You don't really go around saying "y'all" in Tennessee, do you? *snigger*

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 98

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 10:04:21 AM

Venatrix

Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

You don't really go around saying "y'all" in Tennessee, do you? *snigger*

C'mon PforH, y'all know that they do.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 99

RE: How to Keep the D/s Dynamic Alive - 11/19/2008 10:37:23 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

Silly way those chaps talk, what, what?

[p.s. "C'mon" is not in my dictionary.]

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Venatrix)

Post #: 100

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