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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Afterall, food, clothing and shelter NEVER forced anybody to work hey ?

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ORIGINAL: Rule

The solution is simple:
A) for every thousand dollars per month that somebody earns lower the wages by two per cent. So somebody who earns ten thousand dollars per month gets a wage reduction of twenty per cent. (That is because wages are inflated just like stocks, causing the economic crisis.) If this is not sufficient to get out of the crisis, then repeat.
B) hire more people. Wealth is produced by people that work. The way to get out of a poverty crisis is to get as many people to work as possible.

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ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

phb,

A wizened statement:

"the flaw is that anything that is not monitised- has no value. when in fact- it is those things that are paramount to a civilization."

One handed Uncle Nasty 

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ORIGINAL: variation30

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Afterall, food, clothing and shelter NEVER forced anybody to work hey ?

how do inanimate objects force an individual to work?

perhaps you are trying to say that the indidivudal forces him or herself to work because they desire these things?

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ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Vaiation,
And to answer the question about outsourcing, it is bad because there were no controls.  The govt set up a way for greedy corps to take jobs away and move them to places where the people would work for pennies on the dollar.  American workers CANNOT compete with that.  As China has shown with their lead poisoning and the date rape toys recently, the money American companies "wasted" on quality controls was a good thing.  And have the companies passed these savings on to us?  Nope.  We pay pretty much the same for third rate crap and poisoned toys and pet food.  Outsourcing has destroyed the manufacturing base of this country almost to a point where we won't be able to rebuild it.  There need to be controls.

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Oooh, ooh, I know what's better: tariffs on goods produced in Mexico so that the factory doesn't end up getting moved there after all.

Yay! 

(Yes, it's inefficient.  But we all still have jobs.  Yay!)

Ideology is fun to play around with while people can afford their gas and camcorders.  Once that's over, they start to worry about their material well-being.  Silly humans.

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ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

I can't see that either of these is better.  They're kind of a wash for the factory owner.  For everyone else involved, both of these options suck.

If I'm the worker, there's really not much difference between the two.  It's not humanly possible for me to work enough hours at $3/hr to pay for food, shelter and transportation.  I'm going to be on welfare either way, and have to deal with the mountain of paperwork, the aggravation of dealing with the system and the social stigma that comes with being a welfare recipient.

If I live in the community where the factory is located, it's going to suck either way.  None of these people are going to be paying taxes, which will mean less money for road maintenance, schools, public safety, etc.  Local businesses would suffer and some would end up going out of business.  Local charities and non-profits would be stressed to the breaking point.  Quality of life in my community will decline.

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If I'm a taxpayer, I'm going to be paying to support all of these people either way.  I guess I'd be paying a little less if they were working for $3/hr than if they had no jobs, but why should my tax dollars be subsidizing ridiculously low wages?

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
metaphor n.

1) A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage” (Shakespeare).

2) One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol: “Hollywood has always been an irresistible, prefabricated metaphor for the crass, the materialistic, the shallow, and the craven” (Neal Gabler).

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ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

We may not be "experts", but we sure understand the situation better than the government.

I agree completely.

Which begs the question:  Why the fetish among so many for centralized planning?

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ORIGINAL: variation30

why is outsourcing a bad thing?

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Understand the situation better than the government? That's why they're leading and you're following.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Cheap labour in foreign countries as a means of circumventing hundreds of years of hard fought workers' gains? May as well go back to the drawing board.

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ORIGINAL: variation30

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Understand the situation better than the government? That's why they're leading and you're following.

hm. I thought it was because they had more guns and armor than I do...and if I step out of line they will take me from my home and put me into a jail...or if I resist, they will outright kill me.

that's why I've always thought they had authority.

would you pay your income, sales, gas, property, and vice taxes if you were not forced to do so? even if your leaders led you to do it?

I wouldn't. they have to force me at gunpoint to do it.

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ORIGINAL: variation30

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Cheap labour in foreign countries as a means of circumventing hundreds of years of hard fought workers' gains? May as well go back to the drawing board.

so outsourcing is economically bad because certain people aren't getting a job?

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Besides, outsourcing is bad not only for people who lose jobs, but also for people who retain their jobs but whose wages are driven down by the same pressure.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


Whom should prevail?  The worker or the consumer?

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


Whom should prevail?  The worker or the consumer?

...they're not mutually exclusive terms. Workers are consumers, just not necessarily while they're working........

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ORIGINAL: variation30

why should the government control what people do with their private property? the way that the government set up the 'greedy corps' to 'take jobs away' was by making it unprofitable for these 'greedy corps' to run factories in america. if a factory workers job can be done by someone who is illiterate and wholly uneducated and they will do it for 'pennies on the dollar'...why is it bad that those people be hired? it is not that AMerican workers CANNOT compete with that...it is that they WILL NOT compete with that. I assure you, any American can go into a factory and work for 15 cents a day (assuming it was legal). they choose not to. don't confuse choosing not to do something and being incapable of doing something. and why should copmanies pass any savings on to you. we the people are the ones who made them spend extra money for subjective quality control.

let me ask you this. assuming that outsourcing has utterly destroyed the manufacturing base of this country...what negative effects does this have on our economy as a whole?