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RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:08:38 PM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: trealeon

Okay,

I think this is a language thing and this seems to happen a lot. I think many times when someone uses the world "mold" they are really just referring to training someone to their personal preferences/protocols, or whatever and not fundamentally changing some core value or belief. That's just the word they use, maybe because that's the world they think fits what they're doing. I've noticed that certain words push people's buttons and just cause problems or misunderstandings or righteous indignation in some cases.

Also, there are subs out there who's desire is to have someone mold them or change a habit or mindset and there are Doms who are more than willing to do that. Everyone's different.

And yannow, i wanted to edit my message because it was a bit preachy and full of righteous indignation...im in a mood today. i dont ordinarily operate on that level of pique...im way too lazy for that...mostly i just roll my eyes and wander off to find the real folks...to each their own.
But i really do think that im more than willing to be molded into what "my" dominant would want me to be...i do aim to please. It makes me truly happy to make things good for anyone in my life....
But those are things like.....how you want the house kept, what you want me to cook in general, how you want me in bed....that sort of thing.
i feel strongly that i am a capable human being and that this should make me more desireable than someone who cant differentiate between the fantasy hot of "i am what you made me"....and "i just dont know how to get to the place where i would register to vote, Sir, so i just dont vote...woe is me..."
Yeah, but i was ranting a touch. Sorry.....blinkblink....dont know what got into me.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to trealeon)

Post #: 41

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:09:36 PM

mummyman321

Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline

I have no desire to be molded by anyone. I would hope that if I enter into a relationship with a Domme, our interests and likes are close enough that no molding is necessary. I do not want to be molded but to be liked for who I am.

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink! I bet the horse never saw a piss gag before LOL!!!!!

_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 42

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:09:59 PM

Roselaure

Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline

I think it's about how we define "molding". If I enter into a relationship with a Dominant, then I hold him in esteem and have respect for him. At this point we both believe we are essentially compatible. There are things I must learn about him, to please him, his preferences, etc. Not changing my essential self, I change that for no one, but learning the things I must to be a good submissive for him. This is they way I define molding.

_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 43

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:10:30 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

I’ll take molding to mean the decorative version…that thing between the wall and ceiling. The only function it has is to hide the rough connection of the different materials. It is superficial and pretty, but has no other real function. That’s about all I can do with a submissive.

I can’t change the material she is made of or the design, but I can put a decorative thing over our connection and make like I’ve really done something.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 44

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:16:12 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: trealeon
It's there relationship. If the sub loves and trusts the Dom and want that person to "tinker" with them, and the Dom is willing, that's them and that's what they want to do and what works in there relationship.

I agree with this, and this was the case with me in the past. I am a former drama queen who had a lot of mixed up thoughts and views, and a close-to-broken spirit. The man I was serving wanted to mold my thinking into something healthier and to bring me to find my own strength and joy. So I gave over my mind for him to tinker with. I didn't run to him as a damsel in distress, nor was he a white knight who wanted to fix everything. He laid out a path for me to follow and in doing so I came to discover a lot of things about myself. Much of what he did was intentional so that I would become stronger, more self reliant, and independent. We called this "molding" or "training" or whatever other term people tend to loathe so much. Whatever the case, I am a better person for having followed that path, and much stronger and more self aware than the person he met those years ago.

I never did understand the hostility felt by so many toward those who are not as strong. We all have our place in this world and we are all ever-changing. Why not just be grateful for our own strengths rather than resentful toward the weak? We seem to only accept each other's differences that are on some sort of approval list or something. If you don't have time and energy in your world to spend on weaker people, then don't, but the animosity I often see represents to me a vested emotional interest that I just don't understand. To each their own, including the damsels and knights.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to trealeon)

Post #: 45

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:17:56 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Is it just me... am I being old and cranky or not understanding something? What is with this mold me stuff? I need someone to mold me, to make me a better man/woman... I just know these bad habits of mine could be changed if I had a good dominant to mold me.

Do people really think that we as dominant wish to mold someone? Do we want to mold someone? Train them to our specific needs I can see... but to mold and create in a sense I cannot see.

Especially at my age, if a man isn't somewhat put together, I don't see my being able to change one darn thing and I can't see myself as interested! I kind of expect them to be potty trained, somewhat social and able to socialize and to not need life skills training.

What do you all think? Do you want to mold someone who is an adult? Do we send the message that, that is what we want to do? Is it crazy to expect an adult to have some adult skills and be somewhat able to change thier own bad habits?

When I was quite young and after I had informed my parents that I had resigned my commission in the Australian SAS and was heading to the US to sign a contract which would have me Commissioned as an olfficer with the US Special Forces., she threw up her hands and complained bitgterly that I had shamed the family and she would be embarrased socially etc etc etc. (She never refered to my sojurn with the US military or even that i attained the rank of Colonal and served 5 years in 'Nam). My reply was thus:

"Mother, if you continuing to attempt to mould me into your idea of a perfect aristocratis officer and gentleman, you do not love me but wish to clone me for your social uses. If however you love me, you will allow me to make my mistakes and learn by them. You will allow me to grow and tryh to reach my potential and take pride in my achievments both great and small..." My Father applauded as I walked out the door.

I have a frame within I wish my girls to develope and grow so they are able to live and work within my home. I want each to strive as individuals to grow as they should and seek their potential.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 46

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:21:10 PM

Roselaure

Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
I never did understand the hostility felt by so many toward those who are not as strong. We all have our place in this world and we are all ever-changing. Why not just be grateful for our own strengths rather than resentful toward the weak? We seem to only accept each other's differences that are on some sort of approval list or something. If you don't have time and energy in your world to spend on weaker people, then don't, but the animosity I often see represents to me a vested emotional interest that I just don't understand. To each their own, including the damsels and knights.

Beautifully said, NuevaVida. I am always impressed with your level of compassionate acceptance. The fact that you are a lovely person shines through in your writing.

_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 47

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:23:30 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

Thank you for such kind words, Roselaure.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to Roselaure)

Post #: 48

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:25:28 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: trealeon
It's there relationship. If the sub loves and trusts the Dom and want that person to "tinker" with them, and the Dom is willing, that's them and that's what they want to do and what works in there relationship.

I agree with this, and this was the case with me in the past. I am a former drama queen who had a lot of mixed up thoughts and views, and a close-to-broken spirit. The man I was serving wanted to mold my thinking into something healthier and to bring me to find my own strength and joy. So I gave over my mind for him to tinker with. I didn't run to him as a damsel in distress, nor was he a white knight who wanted to fix everything. He laid out a path for me to follow and in doing so I came to discover a lot of things about myself. Much of what he did was intentional so that I would become stronger, more self reliant, and independent. We called this "molding" or "training" or whatever other term people tend to loathe so much. Whatever the case, I am a better person for having followed that path, and much stronger and more self aware than the person he met those years ago.

I never did understand the hostility felt by so many toward those who are not as strong. We all have our place in this world and we are all ever-changing. Why not just be grateful for our own strengths rather than resentful toward the weak? We seem to only accept each other's differences that are on some sort of approval list or something. If you don't have time and energy in your world to spend on weaker people, then don't, but the animosity I often see represents to me a vested emotional interest that I just don't understand. To each their own, including the damsels and knights.

Nicely said!

I do think it is a dynamic between some that really works, but I guess I see it from a different place in different ways. I really do enjoy some of the relationships that some here have that have a bit of this dynamic in their relationships, but I don't see that total lost puppy, can't function in most of these relationships. The part I object to is the expectation that some submissive's have when they contact me after they claim to read my profile, still coming off as someone who needs a mommy and I wondered about it all. Of course I didn't put things very well and had my attitude.

I guess I am not able to put some thing in all this together and am trying to work it through... but surely have some strong attitudes and opinions on some aspects of it all. I do thank you for your input because I always love your view of things and have often looked at things a bit differently from seeing or hearing your view!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 49

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:28:09 PM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

Nueva
Now i feel bad...i was in no way trying to aim any hostility in your direction...as a matter of fact, i came to the boards a little too late to meet the person you were before you were with your last Master...but the woman who's posts i read while you were in that relationship were well thought out and showed that you are nowhere near a weaker person...in any respect.

And my point was, that i dont consider any submissive to be weak...at all. That some feel the need to eschew common sense and wallow in the fantasy that another person on the planet, no matter how much they might love you, can actually, in reality, take on allllll the responsibilities of living...of being a member of the human race...simply based on the idea that she "just couldnt possibly do all that on her own"....therefore...."she needs me"...i call bullshit on that.

When M took my car and detailed it and rearranged my computer to give me more "acreage", and bought me toilet paper on our way home from the dungeon one night because he noticed i was running low and remembered to pick it up....(funny thing was, we were driving separately and i stopped off too...so when we met up at my place we both had TP in our hands...)....those little actions made me feel special and small and cared for....i get it. im wired that way too....

my perception of you is based solely on your performance on this specific online discussion board. i have no other way to judge you as we have not spoken or met yet...i would consider it an honor to be one of your friends...but in my perception of you....weak or incapable....never ever entered my frame of consciousness...and i apologise if you felt offended by anything i may have said.

perse.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 50

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:29:50 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

When I was quite young and after I had informed my parents that I had resigned my commission in the Australian SAS and was heading to the US to sign a contract which would have me Commissioned as an olfficer with the US Special Forces., she threw up her hands and complained bitgterly that I had shamed the family and she would be embarrased socially etc etc etc. (She never refered to my sojurn with the US military or even that i attained the rank of Colonal and served 5 years in 'Nam). My reply was thus:

"Mother, if you continuing to attempt to mould me into your idea of a perfect aristocratis officer and gentleman, you do not love me but wish to clone me for your social uses. If however you love me, you will allow me to make my mistakes and learn by them. You will allow me to grow and tryh to reach my potential and take pride in my achievments both great and small..." My Father applauded as I walked out the door.

I have a frame within I wish my girls to develope and grow so they are able to live and work within my home. I want each to strive as individuals to grow as they should and seek their potential.

Wow IronBear! That was inspiring! lol... I would have applauded too! I want to now! lol That was fantastic!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 51

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:32:20 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

quote:

Add it to the loooooooooong list of BDSM concepts that make us all look silly.

How did that list get to be sooooooo long? :)

But, yeah, some molding is fine by me. In fact I find it kind of sexy 'cause, like, ya know, I got that pygmalion kink thing going. Training's sexy as all get out too. I soooo want to be trained!!! Of course, when it comes to day to day life, I already know how to do most stuff that needs to be done, but that doesn't make training any less satisfying. It kind of bothers me when someone tells me that they like me the way I am. I'm like, well, can't we pretend that you don't??? And you could try to mold me into something completely different??? And teach me and train me and all that fun stuff??? In fact, lets pretend I'm kind of stupid! Now, that sounds like a good way to waste a couple of months out of a life which may well prove to be interminable.

Some things can be shaped. I've been able to wrap myself around new kinks, ones I've never been interested in because a D-type was into it. I've also taken sexual interests in the opposite directions and gotten rid of them when I decided I didn't want them any more.

That all having been said, if I really and truly needed to be built from the ground up or even re-tooled, I would worry about anyone who would have me. I mean, seriously, any one who really and truly needs a dominant to function probably shouldn't have one. They should be working on basic skills and such.

But, I suspect that many who express an interest in molding and the like just get off on it, and don't really need it.

< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 11/30/2008 4:39:32 PM >

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 52

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:33:33 PM

simpleplan2

Posts: 461
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline

You are absolutely right. I tend not to be very accepting of people who I see as weak. I guess it's because I was never able to be. It's very hard for me to understand why someone can't just "get over it".

I will say, however, that I have become much more accepting that I was. I think I am bothered by those who pretend to be weak...for whatever reason than by those who actually are. Yeah, I should just let it be...very hard tho.

Of course, the word "mold" as well as the word "train" tend to make my jaw tight anyway. Teach or show...those two don't bother me...go figure!

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 53

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:34:13 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I'd rather have someone aiding me develop for MYSELF than aiding me to develop in some way for THEM.
Okay, but what makes them qualified to do the "molding"?

Just because someone lists themselves as Dominant does not mean that they are a superior human being, who has absolutely everything under control.

It's also been my experience that those that crow the loudest about "molding" a submissive are typically the biggest hypocrits. Nothing like a fat guy with greasy hair, missing teeth, wearing a stained Tshirt while holding a beer going on and on about the appearance and hygeine of his prospective submissive.

The fact that I consider him so qualified. That's ALL that's required. He IS superior in some ways.........he DOES have skills I don't possess. Nothing to do with being dom...but ALL together to do with him being a very sorted PERSON.

If I could do it all by myself, what on earth would I need HIM for?

I'm quite at home being thankful to people that have spent time and thought aiding me. It's called appreciation.

agirl

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 54

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:34:15 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

Thank you, Lockit, and in turn I always enjoy reading your posts.

I have no doubt from a dominant perspective that it would get old very fast to receive sniveling types of "take care of me" requests, and in trying to think of that from your perspective I can better understand where you're coming from in your OP.

On the other hand, if you see a potential piece of beauty that is covering itself by baggage, fear, or whatever else, it may be worth an interested person's time to chisel out the crud and darkness, and let the inner light shine through. All I can say is, may they find each other! But to condemn one side for wanting the other just doesn't make sense to me. That's not to you personally, just in general.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 55

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:38:22 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

My Sir molded me - he taught me how to make coffee - and told me how to serve it. He also told me what he liked to eat. End of molding.

Molding is one of those words like "tribute" that makes what is going on soumd a whole lot cooler than it really is. Its a way of using jargon to exclude the uninitiated, to have a club and a secret handshake. And it can be fun, but don't mistake it for reality.

As a 48 year old woman with a full time job and two ums that i had raised with little help i didn't need a home economics teacher - i WANTED a dominant, to live in a way satisfying to me. And that is what i got. Yeh for me!!!!

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 56

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:41:40 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: trealeon

I think it's the submissive that qualifies the Dom to "mold" them. It's there relationship. If the sub loves and trusts the Dom and wants that person to "tinker" with them, and the Dom is willing, that's them and that's what they want to do and what works in there relationship.

However, the OP was talking about initial contact stating that "molding" was desired. Not a relationship. That's a large difference.

Someone that wants to change me from the outset of the relationship doesn't want a relationship with me, he wants a relationship with his fantasy.

If I was a Dominant I'd be equally wary of a submissive that desired to be "tinkered" with from the outset. Especially, if it was something that really should be dealt with by a professional. e.g.: weight loss, addiction, etc.

I'm the first to admit that Master has had an influence on me. It's a natural part of the evolution of a relationship. I'll also say that Master also has enough sense to not "tinker" with things he's not qualified to "tinker" with. He's not a doctor, he's not a psychologist and he's not a hypnotherapist. Rather than doing damage by trying to armchair it, he leaves it to the professionals.

And here's the bottom line about the whole subject. Changing yourself for someone else rarely works in the long term.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to trealeon)

Post #: 57

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:43:23 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I guess I don't see it as a weakness, but more a manipulation, thus the attitude. The one's I have talked a lot to or knew, seemed to not want it so much as they would fight that moulding big time. I do a lot of lay counsel and weakness can bother me sometimes as it is often times used as an excuse to get out of doing one's emotional homework and for attention. But human weakness I do understand, for as strong as I am, I have my own!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 58

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:45:12 PM

sexisubi

Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

i would rather have an honest exchange of sympathy/empathy...than be pitied because i just cant deal with this cold hard world...If i have a problem and i let the dominant know about it, i dont even necessarily want him to fix it...altho that would be nice once in a while and maybe when i grow up and get one of my own, ill do that. But for now i just need an ear to hear that im in crisis....a hug to let me know that im not physically alone in my fear....and someone to watch over me while i dig myself out of whatever hole i managed to dig for myself.

Yeah i gotta go with persephonee on this one. i would much rather have a best friend, a piller, someone who can elegently tell me there opinion on life and still let me make the choice i think i have to make, and whilest all this is happening listen to me and begin to understand me. Now, dont get me wrong i love to grow and learn and find different things about myself, having the intellectual converstations with my partner that help me develop different thoughts and ideas is great in D/s or nilla. however wanting to be molded means if they aren't molding you to your standards you may find yourself unsatifided creating a poor connection and a poor relationship. No one can mold you... you have to mold you.

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 59

RE: Mold me? - 11/30/2008 4:47:56 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

Ok, I get that it's not your kink. But, I'm not convinced its as bad as you say it is. It's like the whole doormat thing. I mean, if a s-type seeks a D-type to mold her, and finds one, and they mold and shape to their hearts content in one happy molding and shaping festival, and live happily ever after why would anyone complain?

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 60

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