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RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 12:48:30 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your comments!  I think from what everyone is saying I can see where my distaste is coming from and it isn't in the moulding, but the approach that someone uses and their motivations.  The one that comes across as totally helpless in a dysfunctional way as if they have nothing of their own to bring to the relationship is the aspect that bothers me.  For an extreme example that I kind of relate this to, to show you how I am thinking is the one who writes and wants to be enslaved at your feet 24/7 and has no limits whatsoever.  Many of you said this in a number of ways and when you did, my eyes lit up and I was saying... that's it! lol

It is that unrealistic and at times what I view as manipulative and someone saying something they might think I wish to hear to make domme point's that disturbs me and in ways I don't get it and wanted to know what motivated it.  I can see now that in some it may be a true need and in some it is a way to please someone thinking that will get them a someone and for some it really means what most of you are talking about.

It isn't a totally needy person you are moulding.  It is a person who wants your leadership and whether some of it comes in play or as I see it, a most sincere and wonderful place of training, guiding, serving and relationship for those two being specialized and blended and it is different than the more dysfunctional I can't do a thing without someone.

I was finding myself responding to one little word and I didn't like what I was feeling or thinking when some apporached me.  I really am working on my little attitudes! lol I doubt many of them will be gone... but some of them should be!  Because of this thread, I typically wouldn't have posted because it was coming across in a way I would typically keep to myself, I have heard a lot of things that have helped me understand in a way that I can see clearer and I think will result in my not reacting totally to that little word and being more fair.

Just like I had to understand the word dominance and the different meanings, I think moulding can come into that duel meaning and use catagory and I will be able to see more than one side of it because of all who have shared their different views.  Thank you!

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RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 12:50:12 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		You all have it well with that clay doh me! lol  I love it!

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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 12:51:54 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		camille... I have never once came close to thinking you a needy submissive or person.  In all you have shared of yourself and your relationship, I saw it as beautiful, never needy or anything else that would bring about a negative feel.  I think a lot of us seek a bit of what you have! lol

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 1:01:48 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I have you know that the "Play-DO" submissives are not a silly concept ;)  There are usually moldable into anything you might like... but you need to be careful of what you pickup at the store.. some of the more cheaper brands are actually "Play-Do-ME"  and you can only mold them into what they want... It's all about them.


Very good for the laugh, and also very true.  Kudos!


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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 1:16:12 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

camille... I have never once came close to thinking you a needy submissive or person.  In all you have shared of yourself and your relationship, I saw it as beautiful, never needy or anything else that would bring about a negative feel.  I think a lot of us seek a bit of what you have! lol


Thank you Lockit, but I am needy. I still ask him if its okay to be so needy and he still smiles as he pulls me into his arms while declaring that he owns me so of course it is okay.
I need frequent reassurance/guidance, I need his help in dealing with people that for whatever reason make me question myself and I need to know on a daily basis that he loves me.

But like the word 'micromanagement' (or is that 2 words?) there are a lot that only see the extreme instead of the moderate area that most use.

With me, I needed to be broken down. He happens to be very bright and intuitive with background in psychology which is part of why I trusted him for this process. When I was 15 I was broken down methodically and in a very very bad way, they never built me back up. I was shattered and shuttered for many years, it still surprises me that R was able to see much less push past all the crap I'd piled in front of me.

He rapidly understood the depths of my damage incurred by assholes under the guise of adolescent therapy, he understood that I'd been quite literally torn down and yes to a degree I was brainwashed. If anyone is overly curious about that I can link to an older journal I wrote about it all but I have been through genuine tearing asunder, and molding me through his hands has done nothing but build who he (and eventually myself) wanted me to become.


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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 1:31:40 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

camille... I have never once came close to thinking you a needy submissive or person.  In all you have shared of yourself and your relationship, I saw it as beautiful, never needy or anything else that would bring about a negative feel.  I think a lot of us seek a bit of what you have! lol


Thank you Lockit, but I am needy. I still ask him if its okay to be so needy and he still smiles as he pulls me into his arms while declaring that he owns me so of course it is okay.
I need frequent reassurance/guidance, I need his help in dealing with people that for whatever reason make me question myself and I need to know on a daily basis that he loves me.

But like the word 'micromanagement' (or is that 2 words?) there are a lot that only see the extreme instead of the moderate area that most use.

With me, I needed to be broken down. He happens to be very bright and intuitive with background in psychology which is part of why I trusted him for this process. When I was 15 I was broken down methodically and in a very very bad way, they never built me back up. I was shattered and shuttered for many years, it still surprises me that R was able to see much less push past all the crap I'd piled in front of me.

He rapidly understood the depths of my damage incurred by assholes under the guise of adolescent therapy, he understood that I'd been quite literally torn down and yes to a degree I was brainwashed. If anyone is overly curious about that I can link to an older journal I wrote about it all but I have been through genuine tearing asunder, and molding me through his hands has done nothing but build who he (and eventually myself) wanted me to become.


I find that beautiful. I think many wouldn't begin to care or could understand what it is you speak about if they have never been in your shoes.

I'd appreciate the link if you wouldn't mind sharing.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 1:39:25 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Your profile isn't coming up so I can't CMail the link to you Icarys.

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 1:48:41 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Your profile isn't coming up so I can't CMail the link to you Icarys.

I'll fix that.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 1:52:46 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Thanks, you've mail.

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 1:55:12 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Thanks, you've mail.

Thank you.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 2:57:19 PM   
Rover


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Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Usually I agree with most of what you say John but not on this occasion. I find it hard to believe that you haven't done some molding to get something out of a submissive that you thought needed to be there.


Honestly, Icarys... I've never molded anyone into something they were not, or could not become.  I can't *make* someone into something they are not, or don't have the potential to become.  I can't *make* someone tall if they're short, funny if they're a bore, smart if they're as dumb as a box of rocks... only God (if you're so inclined) can do that. 
 
I can teach them if they're capable of, and willing to, learn.  I can train them to my know what my personal preferences are (but it's up to them to put that knowledge to use).  I can expose them to many new things, but I can't make them like it.  I can teach them new skills to the limits of their ability.  I can help them to maximize whatever they were born with.  But that has everything to do with what they are capable of, and nothing to do with what I wish they were capable of.
 
What they have the potential to *become* has everything to do with them, and nothing to do with me.  The best I can do is help them realize that full potential.
 
John

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 3:02:07 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover


Honestly, Icarys... I've never molded anyone into something they were not, or could not become.  I can't *make* someone into something they are not, or don't have the potential to become.  I can't *make* someone tall if they're short, funny if they're a bore, smart if they're as dumb as a box of rocks... only God (if you're so inclined) can do that. 



Okay so why would it be assumed that ANY ONE aside from God (if one is so inclined) could mold someone beyond what potential for change is already there?

Why is such an extreme and unrealistic view of the term 'molding' taken and used in such a reactive way?




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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 3:12:23 PM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Okay so why would it be assumed that ANY ONE aside from God (if one is so inclined) could mold someone beyond what potential for change is already there?

Why is such an extreme and unrealistic view of the term 'molding' taken and used in such a reactive way?


I'm not sure any of us can know that answer with any degree of certainty, and it likely varies from individual to individual.  But it's my opinion that in a great many cases, the unrealistic use of the term stems from unchecked role play and fantasy fulfillment.  Because it makes some folks feel good to pretend that it's so.
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 3:16:14 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		To you ladies and others

I do not object to people who help rescue and bring out what the person was. We can all use guidance and help. Some people get so buried by life, they need someone to come in and cut away the crap and bring the person back to the forefront. This I admire.

I've had Dom's email me asking me to help "break" a sub. They want to reduce them to nothing so they can make them what the Dom wants. They will rape her and beat her, till what she is disappears. I'm sorry, this is not ever acceptable. (Damn judgment coming in again). I've carried a lot of things to an extreme. But, when I extinguish someone, it will be because they are so evil they shouldn't be here. If I'm sensitive to this topic, well some of the emails I've gotten ... terrible doesn't begin to describe them.

So, I understand its in how we look at the meaning of the words. When someone helps restore you and build you back up ... bravo.
When someone feels the need to erase someone, so they can have a power surge and a mindless plaything .. I'm against it.

camille65 congrats on a relationship that has made you a better person.
NuevaVida - I'm glad it worked out for you.
To agirl - stay the real you ... it's unique and wonderful

To those who use dominance to help someone and fulfill needs ... good.
To those who selfishly use dominance as a mind trip to see how they can eliminate a soul and make a mindless slave ... you I judge .. harshly

Does that clear up my thoughts?



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I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

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RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 3:37:36 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover


Honestly, Icarys... I've never molded anyone into something they were not, or could not become.  I can't *make* someone into something they are not, or don't have the potential to become.  I can't *make* someone tall if they're short, funny if they're a bore, smart if they're as dumb as a box of rocks... only God (if you're so inclined) can do that. 


I wonder.. can anyone mold a person into something they are not or could not become?   I am not sure that I particular find the term all that appealing, but neither am I particular set off by the term either.  Does to mold mean that a person is being made into something they are not?  I am not so sure that it is but maybe it is to some.  Maybe to mold is just another way to say that I affect or influence the development of another person.  I can't mold a piece of rock without the proper tools like I can mold a piece of clay... but yet that great sculptor didn't see himself as molding the rock into the beautiful piece but to reveal what was already hidden in the rock.  He only chipped away what didn't belong.

My approach is more like that sculptor.  I see the strengths and abilities of my girls that are within.  Untapped at times and one of my roles is to assist in bringing those qualities out of them.   Is this molding? 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 3:39:11 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy

So, I understand its in how we look at the meaning of the words. When someone helps restore you and build you back up ... bravo.


  Thank you all for helping me learn something about myself today.  I read the first few posts on this thread when it started, and then didn't come back to it until now.  I don't think it would have hit me with the force it did without reading it all the way through in one sitting.

Most words mean something very specific to me.  Some words have more than one meaning, of course, I get that, but when used in the same context, they are not usually meanings that are so far apart as to be unrelated.  To me, training, molding, teaching, guiding, all mean very different things. 

To use what someone said earlier, about being shown a path...

Molding... close your eyes and get pushed down the right path.
Training... to be told this is the right path enough times so that you know it's the right path.
Teaching... to be educated on why this is the right path.
Guiding... to be shown the merits and demerits of the paths available and perhaps counseled on the right choice.

So I didn't "get it" until now.  I didn't get how very much I like things all neatly wrapped up.  I didn't get it that the people I communicate the best with are the ones who "speak my language", who think in these same terms.

I think I need to go lie down.


Cali


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 3:49:11 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Usually I agree with most of what you say John but not on this occasion. I find it hard to believe that you haven't done some molding to get something out of a submissive that you thought needed to be there.


Honestly, Icarys... I've never molded anyone into something they were not, or could not become.  I can't *make* someone into something they are not, or don't have the potential to become.  I can't *make* someone tall if they're short, funny if they're a bore, smart if they're as dumb as a box of rocks... only God (if you're so inclined) can do that. 
 
I can teach them if they're capable of, and willing to, learn.  I can train them to my know what my personal preferences are (but it's up to them to put that knowledge to use).  I can expose them to many new things, but I can't make them like it.  I can teach them new skills to the limits of their ability.  I can help them to maximize whatever they were born with.  But that has everything to do with what they are capable of, and nothing to do with what I wish they were capable of.
 
What they have the potential to *become* has everything to do with them, and nothing to do with me.  The best I can do is help them realize that full potential.
 
John

I don't believe anyone was referring to making someone into something they could not accomplish or anything so outlandish making someone tall from being short. I'm talking of pushing someone or coaxing them into a direction you think they would be happier being.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 3:53:34 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I can be very understanding and yet I can sometimes see things very black and white.  A word means what I think it means. hehe  Therefore I can go to unfair places sometimes where I am not understanding someone as they really are if they use one of those trigger words or get into one of my singular meaning classes. lol

It's really nice to be shown you need to open up and see something differently and yet I doubt I will ever be as kind or open minded as some around here... I do have moments when I try.

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 3:57:59 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

To use what someone said earlier, about being shown a path...

Molding... close your eyes and get pushed down the right path.
Training... to be told this is the right path enough times so that you know it's the right path.
Teaching... to be educated on why this is the right path.
Guiding... to be shown the merits and demerits of the paths available and perhaps counseled on the right choice.

So I didn't "get it" until now.  I didn't get how very much I like things all neatly wrapped up.  I didn't get it that the people I communicate the best with are the ones who "speak my language", who think in these same terms.

I think I need to go lie down.


Cali



Hi Cali,

I was the one who mentioned a "path." I somewhat agree with your descriptors above, except your description of molding, lol. My eyes were certainly wide open while traveling down my path. Perhaps molding, for me, was the combination of training, teaching and guiding all wrapped together.

And it's only natural that we communicate best with those who speak our language. That makes sense to me. What seems to be nice about this thread is the sharing of such language, so that others who associated a particular meaning to a word can see that this is not universally so.

Also as an aside, although I'm not sure it really means anything, but KOM mentioned needing the right tools to mold and shape rock, versus shaping clay (I understood this to mean the right tools aren't needed to shape clay). I would disagree with that. Having enjoyed my time on a pottery wheel, there are indeed proper tools to use to perfect what is being created, and without their proper use, what is being created can completely collapse right in one's hands.

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Mold me? - 12/1/2008 3:58:57 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover


Honestly, Icarys... I've never molded anyone into something they were not, or could not become.  I can't *make* someone into something they are not, or don't have the potential to become.  I can't *make* someone tall if they're short, funny if they're a bore, smart if they're as dumb as a box of rocks... only God (if you're so inclined) can do that. 


I wonder.. can anyone mold a person into something they are not or could not become?   I am not sure that I particular find the term all that appealing, but neither am I particular set off by the term either.  Does to mold mean that a person is being made into something they are not?  I am not so sure that it is but maybe it is to some.  Maybe to mold is just another way to say that I affect or influence the development of another person.  I can't mold a piece of rock without the proper tools like I can mold a piece of clay... but yet that great sculptor didn't see himself as molding the rock into the beautiful piece but to reveal what was already hidden in the rock.  He only chipped away what didn't belong.

My approach is more like that sculptor.  I see the strengths and abilities of my girls that are within.  Untapped at times and one of my roles is to assist in bringing those qualities out of them.   Is this molding? 

I agree with you except to add that people are far more complex than a piece of rock. As for what the sculptor says about the stone.Rocks don't talk to you.(that's the kinda fluff someone tells you when they want you to believe their bs) To be honest the image in the sculptors minds eye was his conception and had nothing to do with the rock. It was the substrate he used to bring about his vision.

And yes all that is molding if she wasn't working on it before you helped her.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 140
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