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ORIGINAL: colouredin

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ORIGINAL: missturbation

My final bug bear is people who have never suffered abuse of any form telling others what is abusive and what is not. Again it is subjective but until you have WALKED A MILE IN MY SHOES do not presume to tell me how i am supposed to feel about something.
 

The problem is everyone deals with it differantly, you say if it helps one to share their stories they should, well sure but what if it hurts another to read such stories? As you said no one has ever walked a mile in anyone but their own shoes, the advice we give is what has worked for us but no its never going to be universal, never. As you said we have to deal with it in our own way but also understand that we should never force our own way on other people.

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My final bug bear is people who have never suffered abuse of any form telling others what is abusive and what is not. Again it is subjective but until you have WALKED A MILE IN MY SHOES do not presume to tell me how i am supposed to feel about something.

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How do you know that I or any of these other people haven't went through abuse like yours and just may not want to share it with the world? Going through abuse does give you an insiders perspective on it but in no way makes you an expert nor does it mean you have a good perspective

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This is a great question, bear.  I wonder that, also.  I've always considered victim mentality to be one in which someone does not take accountability for being in whatever situation they have been through (ie; I allowed my ex husband to treat me that way, and I need to be accountable for it, versus a woe is me, he did me wrong and I'll be fucked up forever because of it).  I haven't seen much of the latter here although I could have missed it.    So I am also interested in how other people define it.

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I don't and nor did i ever pretend to. I was speaking in general not aiming my comments at anyone in this thread. Over sensitive much.

I also never claimed to be an expert or have a good perspective either. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

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ORIGINAL: MasterHypnotist

No, I haven't read the pages of thread, I find the handling of the topic to be ironic. Ironic, in this case being a more polite word than amusing.

This is a BDSM site that celebrates the stylings, refinements and extensions of de Sade. Abuse, by any of its names, rationals, and practices is the norm. I am waiting to read a post from a submissive complaining that her Dominant gave her lovely roses, but there were no damnfucking thorns!

If you want to be in, searching for, or are in a relationship where intentional pain, restriction, or denial is a part of the lifestyle, then you're going to run into people who abuse. Count the cost. Ya in or are ya out?

To claim it's an environment which is the norm is a cop out. Unless a person is totally isolated from birth, they know there is "something" different out there. People who look forward to going home. People who don't cringe or fawn. People who don't ache and have bruises. People who don't make excuses for missing an event. People who say yes or no on the spur of the moment without consulting another. People who make mistakes and don't fear secondary consequences. Something, somewhere tells them that there are other lifestyles out there.

People recover from abuse all the time. Find a way to join them, try another way, and yet another, again and again until you succeed, or accept your lot for whatever reason(s) you choose (sometimes waiting IS the only option). But recovery means moving on to the best of your ability and refusing to re-enter a similar environment... which has its own cost. Ya in or are ya out?

If you celebrate your sufferings (wherever they came from) you'll continue to desire more to celebrate. It seems a rare and precious person who realizes that they are submissive, and yet realizes that they have every right to enjoy life, without intentional pain, restriction, or denial.

To be submissive or slave does not require imposed suffering, for any reason. Real life will dish that out to most people through circumstance and choices. In my opinion, there's no need to seek someone out to hurt you... even though there is are entertainment, fashion, and site, resource, or service providing resources dedicated to it.

I help people recover, stronger and more able. What do you do?

I will now accept the lack of responses, or replies that I just don't get it. There's always a cost. Ya in or are ya out?

MH

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ORIGINAL: MasterHypnotist

Unless a person is totally isolated from birth, they know there is "something" different out there. People who look forward to going home. People who don't cringe or fawn. People who don't ache and have bruises. People who don't make excuses for missing an event. People who say yes or no on the spur of the moment without consulting another. People who make mistakes and don't fear secondary consequences. Something, somewhere tells them that there are other lifestyles out there.

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ORIGINAL: agirl

 As it happens, my children's father was the one *killed*....I can assure you that the death of a pet pales.

agirl

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ORIGINAL: agirl

I've got young men that age here, and it's unimaginable that someone can tramp over 15yrs of decent experiences, and what they KNOW to be the case.

I'd be mortified if my teachings, love and basic experiences with my young men hadn't furnished them with enough to give them a comparison with that type of shallow shit.

How could you think that *everyone did it* unless you SAW * everyone doing it?* How could you think  that * all relationships run this way* unless you had nothing better to compare it with?

You're saying that your FIRST 15yrs gave you nothing to use that was comparable, nothing that you could use to make any decent decision about the way people treat each other?

THAT would be the sad thing.

agirl

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ORIGINAL: julietsierra

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ORIGINAL: agirl

 As it happens, my children's father was the one *killed*....I can assure you that the death of a pet pales.

agirl

Gosh! If ONLY I'd known this before!! How utterly HELPFUL it would have been to know that somehow we were in a competion of atrocities!

Y'know agirl, others may have taken you to task for what seems to be your inability to see things from another perspective, but I've said nothing. Now this may mean you feel that it therefore becomes imperative to point out just how well adjusted and capable you are - especially in comparison to others who have had a different sort of life than you, but I'm just not seeing it. I've repeatedly said in this thread that I'm still working on a lot.

Silly me. I actually believed you were attempting to understand how people came to this point. But no, it's the process of self-aggrandizement in fine working order.

You see, I don't really much care how you've managed to come out just so darn wholesome. I'm still working on me. But by all means, if you feel the need to hold me up in comparison to point out your all-vaulted "correctness" with how things are "supposed" to be, then please continue. Otherwise, I for one am not comparing myself against you. Furthermore, if you are doing this in an attempt to "help" (since it is very apparent you're not really doing this to "understand, ") please know.. it's not helping.

Now, please don't mistake things here. If your children's father was killed I certainly am sorry that happened, but again, like levels in abuse, I don't really think I should have gotten to the point where I made decisions in which someone lost their life in order to justify for you, the validity of what I was doing or not doing...or is this what you're trying to say. I made the decisions I made. If you don't agree with them, then you don't agree with them. But pointing out how wonderful you are just to make the point that you've had hardships and handled them oh so much better is really kind of low and in my eyes, not much different from those professing perpetual victimhood. I've never looked for approval from you and don't expect to get it. But please.. I certainly hope you are not looking for thanks from me, cause you won't be getting that either.

juliet

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But I will say that there are some people who use their past abuse history to try and excuse or even explain who they are today or use it to give some sort of credence to their 'advice'.  People do feel they need to justify their knowledge - nothing wrong with that at all - but it isn't necessary to prove yourself if your words hold any truth in them.   
the.dark

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ORIGINAL: agirl

Hey.... you're reading a LOT more into my post than is actually there.

I haven't mentioned in any way how I handled any of it......apart from saying that NO, being threatened with the death of a pet would not have stopped me doing what I thought was right.   Of course I'm going to compare that to dealing with the death of their Dad........and how nice to be viewed as wholesome.

Having a different mindset is NOT the same as self-aggrandizement. I don't have the same history but strangely enough I don't expect anyone to have the same history.

My post said a LOT more than mentioning the death of the children's father......and so have my prior posts.

I'm not a sympathetic ear and neither are you, to me.  haven't said ONE word that is intended to be of *help* to anyone, so let's be clear about that. I haven't held you up to *be* anything; I don't care that much. This is a bdsm forum....it's not a life-affirming forum.

Reading on through your post, your assertion that I'm *oh, so much better* , is garnered from what?

You're not the only person to have posted a heart-rending list of abuse. I'm no *better* than any of the people that have posted . I don't even KNOW the people posting to make that assumption.

You've posted in an emotional sense that I haven't...... Why do you think I'm looking for your thanks? and why would I think you were looking for my approval?. This is alien to me.

agirl

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ORIGINAL: missturbation

My final bug bear is 
 
 

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ORIGINAL: stella41b

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

You can't make someone feel guilty or bad..It's what they feel about what you say that makes them feel that way..The other stuff is bad behavior for sure. But abuse no unless it becomes some sort of habit. Meaning if they do it with everyone or on a continuous basis.

Think back please for a minute, how was it for you when you first started school? Surely you had friends with whom you got together to play games and play with each others' balls and stuff. Ever have some taunt you because you couldn't play with them properly, or who would regularly come and take your balls away? Nobody made you feel bad in school?

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ORIGINAL: agirl

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ORIGINAL: julietsierra

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ORIGINAL: agirl

 As it happens, my children's father was the one *killed*....I can assure you that the death of a pet pales.

agirl

Gosh! If ONLY I'd known this before!! How utterly HELPFUL it would have been to know that somehow we were in a competion of atrocities!

Y'know agirl, others may have taken you to task for what seems to be your inability to see things from another perspective, but I've said nothing. Now this may mean you feel that it therefore becomes imperative to point out just how well adjusted and capable you are - especially in comparison to others who have had a different sort of life than you, but I'm just not seeing it. I've repeatedly said in this thread that I'm still working on a lot.

Silly me. I actually believed you were attempting to understand how people came to this point. But no, it's the process of self-aggrandizement in fine working order.

You see, I don't really much care how you've managed to come out just so darn wholesome. I'm still working on me. But by all means, if you feel the need to hold me up in comparison to point out your all-vaulted "correctness" with how things are "supposed" to be, then please continue. Otherwise, I for one am not comparing myself against you. Furthermore, if you are doing this in an attempt to "help" (since it is very apparent you're not really doing this to "understand, ") please know.. it's not helping.

Now, please don't mistake things here. If your children's father was killed I certainly am sorry that happened, but again, like levels in abuse, I don't really think I should have gotten to the point where I made decisions in which someone lost their life in order to justify for you, the validity of what I was doing or not doing...or is this what you're trying to say. I made the decisions I made. If you don't agree with them, then you don't agree with them. But pointing out how wonderful you are just to make the point that you've had hardships and handled them oh so much better is really kind of low and in my eyes, not much different from those professing perpetual victimhood. I've never looked for approval from you and don't expect to get it. But please.. I certainly hope you are not looking for thanks from me, cause you won't be getting that either.

juliet

Hey.... you're reading a LOT more into my post than is actually there.

I haven't mentioned in any way how I handled any of it......apart from saying that NO, being threatened with the death of a pet would not have stopped me doing what I thought was right.   Of course I'm going to compare that to dealing with the death of their Dad........and how nice to be viewed as wholesome.

Having a different mindset is NOT the same as self-aggrandizement. I don't have the same history but strangely enough I don't expect anyone to have the same history.

My post said a LOT more than mentioning the death of the children's father......and so have my prior posts.

I'm not a sympathetic ear and neither are you, to me.  haven't said ONE word that is intended to be of *help* to anyone, so let's be clear about that. I haven't held you up to *be* anything; I don't care that much. This is a bdsm forum....it's not a life-affirming forum.

Reading on through your post, your assertion that I'm *oh, so much better* , is garnered from what?

You're not the only person to have posted a heart-rending list of abuse. I'm no *better* than any of the people that have posted . I don't even KNOW the people posting to make that assumption.

You've posted in an emotional sense that I haven't...... Why do you think I'm looking for your thanks? and why would I think you were looking for my approval?. This is alien to me.

agirl