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RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 6:49:26 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: I hold myself to the same grammatical standards that I hold anyone and everyone else.)

 
Does that mean you'd want someone to let you know that your post and spelling insert are riddled with misspellings? 



It means that I don't mind if someone does - and in fact actually appreciate it when someone lets me know that I've missed something during edit.  (Thank you, btw - your comment made me take a moment to actually go back and check the original, which I'd simply copy/pasted to the post.  I need to take a moment and do the editing that I missed previously.) 
 
I'm not perfect - nor do I expect anyone else to be.  What I DO expect is for them to make an effort - and if they have a disability that limits their Capacity, to state such from the get-go, rather than being offended when I don't see the invisible literary wheelchair they're confined to.  If I know they are limited in that legitimate capacity, I'll make exceptions - just as I would make an exception, and hold the door open for someone in a Physical wheelchair, to help accommodate their disability - but wouldn't do so for someone on a skateboard simply because they're too lazy to walk instead of roll.  If they're using the written word to communicate - and do not let others know that they have a disability - they have no one to blame except themselves if others aren't accommodating to that disability.  I have no such disability - I expect no such accommodation.
 
I rarely let loose on someone here in the forums for their grammar and punctuation - unless it's some asinine post from an idiot asking why he's not having tons of people fall all over themselves to grovel at his feet - and the post is riddled with misspelling every couple of words, no semblance to having received an education in even Basic grammar, and little or no punctuation.  Those I tend to let loose on with comments about learning how to write prior to wondering why no one is answering their emails.  My private email box is another matter altogether - and I'm a lot less tolerant there than I am here on the forums.  Sending me an email where the sender couldn't be bothered to type out the word "you" and instead used the letter "u" - or substituted numbers for words, and other such text message induced shorthand gibberish - those will bring the equivalent of a tactical nuke on the person.  That's laziness as much as it is illiteracy. 
 
Yes - I consider good grammar and an attempt at spelling important.  I consider the use of punctuation for readability important.  I consider making an effort - even when the Effort might not be 100% correct - Important.  The email you send someone asking to get acquainted with them, combined with your profile, are that person's first impression of you.  Just as - when you're glimpsing them for the first time across a room - seeing them wipe their nose on their sleeve might be your first impression of them.  Do you want to be remembered as the literary snot-sleeve, because you can't be bothered with anything even Resembling grammar and spelling?  (The "you" in this sense being a Generic, not a Specific.)

edited to add : Termy and Cerce:  Same to the two of you - thanks for pointing out to me what happens when I get in a hurry with my own typing!

< Message edited by hizgeorgiapeach -- 12/31/2008 6:50:49 PM >

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(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 6:58:30 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I wasn't pointing it out to pick at you, peach, so I'm glad you didn't receive it that way.  God knows I'm far from perfect, I just think it's not always a sign that someone lacks intelligence.  And yes, as you said, and Orion was also saying, effort counts.  I just hate when I see people getting ridiculed for it, especially if it's the result of a learning disability. 

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 7:15:00 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2
I just hate when I see people getting ridiculed for it, especially if it's the result of a learning disability. 


That's what I mean by someone who is limited by a "literary wheelchair" Marie.  We're online.  We can't see that disability.  We are not mind readers.  We have no way of knowing the disabilty exists if they keep it to themselves - and then simply become offended when someone else makes a comment on their lack of skill.  Stating it in a profile is all well and good - for those who actually go take a look at that profile.  How many of us take the time to look at Every Profile of Every Poster - even if it's the first time we've seen that person post?  Damned few of us, myself included in the group that doesn't - not unless the person's post contains something that piques my interest in particular, or I decide to shoot them an email privately on the other side concerning their post.  (And more often than not, those two things go hand in hand with me.)  If they don't want to get "picked on" - or to Feel "picked on" - then they should preface their OP with "I have a learning disability that makes it hard to write" or "I have dyslexia."  Or perhaps put it in their sig line, so that it's automatically stated Any time they happen to post - and easily viewable by anyone replying to them on the forums without having to go look at the profile to find out!

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Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 7:27:21 PM   
Aszhrae


Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline 		~FR~

I personally find it insulting when others here in CM expect a college or university education. Of course there are some that also expect a certain amount of education in the writing of essays. Essays require that you supply a glossary of sources and possible footnotes to explain certain references made in paragraph structure.
Not everyone has a post-secondary education like so many seem to have here.
Some people while still high school were already involved in a M/s relationship that continued beyond the standard years where most people were attending post-secondary education. There are also people in the world that also have less education than high school. Thus, such people have very little training in getting their ideas down so that others find it easy to understand.
Where does it say that a sub/slave has to have a post-secondary education in order to communicate with their dominant?
The sub/slave might just have skills and capabilities that are well beyond their communication skills. They also might not have the luxury of having been conditioned to think according to white collar expectations.
I would not expect anyone to have a grasp of hands-on technical knowledge that I have gained over the years by present master. But, I most certainly would not correct anyone telling me where to place a truss because they used poor grammar.
So what if grammar ability is questionable, did you understand the subject matter within the sentences being posted.
I personally could not care less where nouns, predicates, adjectives, adverbs are placed within a sentence. Or that  the poster sentence structure tends to use a lot of double negatives or double positives. Then of course there is the use of short breaths, breaths and a half; double breath: or breath. Its not such a big deal but some certainly believe that is grounds enough to judge others.

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 7:28:34 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I feel that if a person has a learning disability and want to be given some slack for it, then, yes, they should let people know about it, otherwise they should just be prepared to take the flack that some (myself included at times) will send their way.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 7:47:02 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I have commented on posts  where the ease of reading was inhibited by lack of paragraphs, capitals, and normal sentence structure.  Those posts were very hard to read - leading to people not reading them, or unclear - its a shame to make the effort to post, and not have said post not understood.

and yes, i tend to think people who can't post in good English as being not quite so bright. Heck , if you got out of high school you should be able to write a decent sentence - so if there is a legit reason for not doing so, maybe a heads up would be in order.  But then again - its up to the individual.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 8:04:44 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Aszhrae - it doesn't take a post-secondary education to learn the basics of grammar, spelling, and punctuation.  All of those were things which I was taught during Primary School.  The lessons in such fundamental communications skills began well prior to the 4th grade.  Should I instead assume that educational standards have fallen so far beneath where they were while I was in primary school, that people are now allowed to graduate highschool with less Basic knowledge than I was required to have before I was even allowed to go to junior high?  I'm not that damned old  - in my early 40s - and yet the only other alternative that comes to mind is that I somehow lucked out and got a superior Public School education at the primary level in a state that's chronically been considered mostly behind the curve.  I'm certainly not that superior in basic intelligence that something that was taught from 1st grade on should be comprehensible to me yet incomprehensible to others.
 
If someone who has Graduated High School is incapable of reading and writing at a Grade School Level - then there's a Serious Problem - and it's Not a problem with those who expect them to be capable of reading and writing at a high school level!

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 8:06:01 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		For ME, it is only one small tick on my mental checklist. If most of their sentences also contain wanker material, or if the questions or comments are so bloody stupid I cannot imagine an IQ more than double digits, or if they are an asshole to the tenth degree, etc etc etc.......

If the only fault I can find in any of their posts is bad grammer and/or spelling, I will overlook it easily.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 8:17:05 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		If I were you I'd quickly get over the  idea that this is or should be  a safe space for all to be with out being attacked. It's not true, and people are attacked everyday, be it for not spelling correctly, or for having kinks other posters think are disgusting or out of line. Or just cause it's a possey of women who get kicks out of following people around and hijacking and harrasing them.

It's just the nature of the beast where tons of people can gather, in anonymous fashion and there's nothing to loose by being bitchy or snarky, nor tearing others apart.


I agree that some posters go out of their way to be rude or vicious, and mods should be mod slapping them a bit more, but There's not going to be such a thing as a "safeplace" when you have a spot like collarme, where hundreds can congregate and there's no real deterent to bullying behavior.

And I disagree that it's any ones responcibility to inform others of the knowledge experinced people have. It'd be nice, but it's not my responcibility to teach others, nor was it other more experinced people's responciblity to teach me when I was new.


quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya

I was perusing the forums, as I often do, and I came across an interesting topic. I read it, and I appreciated the comments that were left, but there was one thing that concerned me.

The individual that posted the question had horrible spelling. Her spelling wasn't the problem. The problem was the people that attacked her based on her ability to spell. It was pointed out--by a member-- that the poster had severe dyslexia, and had informed the community by putting that information in her profile. It was then suggested that she alert everyone on the forums, by putting this information in her signature, so she wouldn't get attacked.

The poster shouldn't have to alert anyone to anything. She should be able to ask a question, and get an answer; irregardless of the manner in which it was spelled. No one should get attacked based on their spelling.

Time and time again, I see people being attacked about their ability to spell, or their grammar errors. If a person is genuinely wanting information about the lifestyle, and they are brave enough to ask, then I think that there is a responsibility for more experienced individuals to answer in a non-judgemental manner.

This is one of the few place where people can get information about the lifestyle. Consequently, the forums should be a safe space for everyone.

(in reply to khalya)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 8:19:14 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		marie, and yet you forget how quickly you've jumped on the band wagon to help tear posters a new ass. , Some of those comments were directed my way in the one thread about their being stricter standards for foreigners who want to be US citizens. You and a ton of other people jumped right in and you joined in on the ripping a new ass  and posting rude comments, fest with every one else.

Now I admit I did invite some of the ripping a new ass fest with my comments, and to boot I typed poorly in a thread asking why there were not stronger rules in place. But there was quite a lot of sadistic delight by some of the members of further ripping the thread to bits, after 5 pages of ripping to bits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

This has come up before, and I hate to admit it, but it's one of those things that sticks in my craw.   I don't know why, but I find it heartbreaking when people start to attack and insult people with poor spelling/grammar skills...whether it's the result of dyslexia or just a poor ability to memorize correct spelling or some other learning disability, or whatever.  It reminds me of the weakest kid in high school getting bullied.  I find it thoroughly revolting.  I think it should be an immediate TOS to tear into people for being poor spellers.  It's so god damn lame, really.


< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 12/31/2008 8:23:45 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 8:32:20 PM   
winterlight


Posts: 1319
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline 		I work with two highly intelligent people that cannot spell worth a darn. i spell well and do their proof reading for them.
For example the word too or two is spelled tuo..
One person is a voracious reader but cannot spell. I get in trouble when i type too fast and don't spell words correctly.

I look at the person, how they act, whom they are as being more important...but that is just me....

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 8:34:45 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		My uncle is dyslexic, and his writing skills aren't the best.  But his grasp of math is amazing.  I'm horrible at math, and I've never understood it.  So I do think someone is making a faulty assumption if they assume that someone is stupid because of their writing skills or lack of them. 

(in reply to winterlight)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 8:48:43 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

marie, and yet you forget how quickly you've jumped on the band wagon to help tear posters a new ass. , Some of those comments were directed my way in the one thread about their being stricter standards for foreigners who want to be US citizens. You and a ton of other people jumped right in and you joined in on the ripping a new ass  and posting rude comments, fest with every one else.

Now I admit I did invite some of the ripping a new ass fest with my comments, and to boot I typed poorly in a thread asking why there were not stronger rules in place. But there was quite a lot of sadistic delight by some of the members of further ripping the thread to bits, after 5 pages of ripping to bits.



I'm sure your memory is failing you on that count.  You might want to go back and check that thread.  I didn't say anything there that even remotely resembled ridicule or tearing you up.  If I remember correctly, I actually agreed with your general point.

I would welcome the idea of you showing me, or linking me to a single post where I have ever jumped on a "band wagon" to tear you apart.  I'm sure you are mistaken.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 8:50:41 PM   
winterlight


Posts: 1319
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline 		My writing skills are horrible i must admit. I am not dyslexic but hearing impaired which means i didn't learn the language as most people did by hearing. Mine was due to speech training which some people tell me i am hard to understand.. Can i be understood absolutely more so than others..My writing skills leave much to be desired. I do try and work on it..Did i hear speech yes but there was much that i didn't hear nor know. I still have problems pronoucing words. my family lets me know in no uncertain terms that i said something wrong which really exasperates me..

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 8:55:36 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		The mods deleted the thread, but you're right I could be mistaken.


quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

marie, and yet you forget how quickly you've jumped on the band wagon to help tear posters a new ass. , Some of those comments were directed my way in the one thread about their being stricter standards for foreigners who want to be US citizens. You and a ton of other people jumped right in and you joined in on the ripping a new ass  and posting rude comments, fest with every one else.

Now I admit I did invite some of the ripping a new ass fest with my comments, and to boot I typed poorly in a thread asking why there were not stronger rules in place. But there was quite a lot of sadistic delight by some of the members of further ripping the thread to bits, after 5 pages of ripping to bits.



I'm sure your memory is failing you on that count.  You might want to go back and check that thread.  I didn't say anything there that even remotely resembled ridicule or tearing you up.  If I remember correctly, I actually agreed with your general point.

I would welcome the idea of you showing me, or linking me to a single post where I have ever jumped on a "band wagon" to tear you apart.  I'm sure you are mistaken.

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 9:15:36 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

The mods deleted the thread, but you're right I could be mistaken.




As I recall you were saying that foreigners should have a better grasp on  the English language if they wanted to become citizens, especially licensed professionals.  The thread isn't deleted.  It's still up, and I just found it.  It appears to have been locked.  Yes, it was quite a massacre, but I wasn't involved in the mocking.  

It's odd to me that you would remember me as one who jumped on the bandwagon, when I was actually the only poster who defended you.  

Post #67.  Take notice, especially of my very last sentence to you, in that post.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2333663/mpage_4/tm.htm

End hijack.

< Message edited by marie2 -- 12/31/2008 9:16:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 9:20:46 PM   
Feliciasub


Posts: 75
Joined: 11/26/2008
Status: offline 		English is not my first language ( French is my first language ) and let me tell Y/you that it is not always easy to communicate in a language that is not yours

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 9:26:23 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		The never ending debate rears it's ugly head once again. I think the only other topic more beaten to a bloody, unrecognizable pulp is "what is the difference between a sub and a slave".  (that's my fave)

I can usually tell if someone is foreign and English is a 2nd language. I've no problem with that. Whoever s/he is, their English is much better than my Spanish, Arabic, German, Russian etc..... Kudos!

I also don't care if someone makes an occasional error. Most people do. (I know I do)

What I DO care about is a post that is so sloppy and has so many errors that it's difficult or even impossible to read. It makes my head hurt and I don't like that.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 9:28:29 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I have to admit that I am a grammar/spelling snob.  If I can get past the writing and find clear thinking underneath, as is the case with a foreigner who can think in one language better than in English, I make allowances.  If the bad writing is due to bad thinking, I think less of that person.

Sucks for me that my excellent spelling is negated by my sucky typing.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Judging Based On Grammar Capabilities - 12/31/2008 9:34:21 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Sucks for me that my excellent spelling is negated by my sucky typing.


(start semi-sarcasm)

Ever considered the possibility of making Taking Dictation and Good Typing to be required skills for any potential subs/slaves you talk to?

(end semi-sarcasm)

(I call it Semi sarcasm cause I know a couple of guys that absolutely can't spell OR type who Have made that part of their requirements for a female companion!!)

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 40
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