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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 10:09:27 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I live in the US, I have no problem with most people owning guns. I just find the swaggering attitude of many people that own them rediculous.

It is one of the most blatantly insecure red flags I see in many people.

"Look at me, I've got a trailer full of, super duper blow a hole in the face of the moon, cannons and I will blast the ass off anyone that DARES to set foot over my lot line in this here trailer park!! Cuz, gawddammit it's my fukn constitutional right!"

I mean really.........so someone comes in my house and steals my television. I call the police, file a report, file a claim with my insurance company and badabing!! I've got a new television! How totally cool is that?!?!

No blood stains on the walls or wood flooring. No arrest and legal fees. No time in jail for me before it gets all sorted out. Just a new television. Seems a no brainer to me.


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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 10:16:06 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Why did you use guns and trailer parks in the same sentence. I know a lot of peole who live in trailer parks that do not own guns. Are all trailer parks filled with run down homes and drunk hillbillys?. I can show you so called trailer parks where the home go up to $300,000 or more. They quit making trailers a long time ago. I live in what you might call a trailer park where the homes are all ovr $100,000. I don't know of anyone here who sits with their coon dog on the pourch playing a banjo and drinking moonshine(which I can make by the way)

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 10:18:17 AM   
ALAstella


Posts: 253
Joined: 12/3/2008
Status: offline 		I would never ever use deadly force against a criminal attempting to steal from me.

You know it's easy to talk tough and make a show of bravado if you got a gun, but how brave are you without that gun?

There are criminals and some of those criminals are armed, with knives, guns, whatever.

Maybe it's because I grew up in cities like Glasgow and the rougher parts of the cities of Northern England, but the one thing I learned is that the best weapons against any criminal is a brain, eyes and a tongue. If you don't learn to use these effectively when growing up you get hurt, it's that simple.

To threaten someone's life over any sort of crime is stupid. I'm not that stupid.

Just saying.

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 10:22:52 AM   
bluepanda


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quote:

I don't know of anyone here who sits with their coon dog on the pourch playing a banjo and drinking moonshine


That's actually quite a pity, because it really sounds like a thoroughly relaxing way to spend a summer evening.






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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 10:23:00 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		TITLE 16.  CRIMES AND OFFENSES  CHAPTER 3.  DEFENSES TO CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS  ARTICLE 2.  JUSTIFICATION AND EXCUSE
O.C.G.A. § 16-3-23.1  (2008)§ 16-3-23.1.  No duty to retreat prior to use of force in self-defense    A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, relating to the use of force in defense of self or others, Code Section 16-3-23, relating to the use of force in defense of a habitation, or Code Section 16-3-24, relating to the use of force in defense of property other than a habitation, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use force as provided in said Code sections, including deadly force.

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 10:26:58 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Why did you use guns and trailer parks in the same sentence. I know a lot of peole who live in trailer parks that do not own guns. Are all trailer parks filled with run down homes and drunk hillbillys?. I can show you so called trailer parks where the home go up to $300,000 or more. They quit making trailers a long time ago. I live in what you might call a trailer park where the homes are all ovr $100,000. I don't know of anyone here who sits with their coon dog on the pourch playing a banjo and drinking moonshine(which I can make by the way)


It is very simple really. You do not live where I live. Just a mile away from me is a very small cluster (too few to be a real town) of dwellings all haphazardly place around an area that used to be a legitimate town. In this area there are more trailers than stick built homes. I guarantee you that none of them cost the persons living in them more than 5 thousand dollars.

It is similar with all clusters of trailers in my part of the world. Even here, in Iowa City, if a police car is heading south like a bat out of hell on South Riverside Drive, the odds are very very good that they are heading to a trailer park that is just off that road a few miles.

Here, a mobile home is considered a cheap trashy place to live. Most towns do not allow them or consider them equal to a stick built home. They are relegated to shit hole parks on the edge of, or near, a town........for the most part.

Those that are in the country quite often do have coon dogs chained up nearby. Rather than moonshine, they are usually drinking whatever beer was the cheapest, with the empties scattered about the yard. Until just before the next welfare check comes and they need cigarette money. That is when they send the kids out to pick up cans. Very few of these treasured citizens are talented enough to play any sort of musical instrument. They prefer to play with their guns.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/9/2009 10:30:13 AM >

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 10:43:46 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Why did you use guns and trailer parks in the same sentence. I know a lot of peole who live in trailer parks that do not own guns. Are all trailer parks filled with run down homes and drunk hillbillys?. I can show you so called trailer parks where the home go up to $300,000 or more. They quit making trailers a long time ago. I live in what you might call a trailer park where the homes are all ovr $100,000. I don't know of anyone here who sits with their coon dog on the pourch playing a banjo and drinking moonshine(which I can make by the way)


It is very simple really. You do not live where I live. Just a mile away from me is a very small cluster (too few to be a real town) of dwellings all haphazardly place around an area that used to be a legitimate town. In this area there are more trailers than stick built homes. I guarantee you that none of them cost the persons living in them more than 5 thousand dollars.

It is similar with all clusters of trailers in my part of the world. Even here, in Iowa City, if a police car is heading south like a bat out of hell on South Riverside Drive, the odds are very very good that they are heading to a trailer park that is just off that road a few miles.

Here, a mobile home is considered a cheap trashy place to live. Most towns do not allow them or consider them equal to a stick built home. They are relegated to shit hole parks on the edge of, or near, a town........for the most part.

Those that are in the country quite often do have coon dogs chained up nearby. Rather than moonshine, they are usually drinking whatever beer was the cheapest, with the empties scattered about the yard. Until just before the next welfare check comes and they need cigarette money. That is when they send the kids out to pick up cans. Very few of these treasured citizens are talented enough to play any sort of musical instrument. They prefer to play with their guns.



Now there's a sterotype if I ever saw one. To to OP, answer depends. I'm not going to shoot someone running off with my lawmower that was out in the shed. Anyone coming in the house is a different story. All bets are off because anyone doing that is accepting the risk of running into someone in the home, accepting the risk of violence and perhaps planned for it.

So yeah, if they come in, deadly force is reasonable.

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 11:20:15 AM   
bratnwranglers


Posts: 113
Joined: 5/24/2007
Status: offline 		FR -
Sorry if i repeat something already said. You see sooo many crimes today, innocent victims of theft, they put their hands up and gave the thief what they wanted in an effort to save and protect their own lives, but instead lost them... if i catch anyone on my property, whether its the intent to steal, or to be bodily damage to my family or myself, they will be met with deadly force..now i would probably tell them to hit the dirt first and not move...but if ignored, i will be shooting, and not aiming for arms or legs.

< Message edited by bratnwranglers -- 1/9/2009 11:21:31 AM >

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 11:49:22 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		lol.......sorry, rarely see anyone aside from Law Enforcment openly carrying weapons....and kind of glad of it.

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 12:06:14 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		For Ray: I dont see many people from outside the US actually complaining they havent got the right to bear arms.  In my limited experience, its relief at not having the gun culture ingrained.
Lucy
who would absolutely use whatever I have at hand to defend my family and property,
I have used fantastik kitchen spray to ward off an attacker, not quite the stopping power of a colt 45 but it worked.
Lucy
 

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 4:16:25 PM   
scarlettjinx


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Joined: 3/14/2008
Status: offline 		Very simple for me. Papa works nights, I have a six month old child, and I have been the victim of a home invasion that involved me being hospitalised for two weeks. If you come into MY home uninvited, I will not hesistate to kill you where you stand. If I catch you early enough that you have just jumped the fence or are fucking with my window or door, you will be given the curtesy of one warning shot, and if I don't see your back moving swiftly away from my domicile, I will kill you. It takes twenty minutes at the earliest for a cop to get to my home from the closest pricinct, and if you are on my property, uninvited, I assume you mean harm to me and my child, you are therefore no longer a human life, but the same as a rabid animal ready to attack.

While I understand times are indeed hard right now, If you need to steal to survive, I doubt you will be breaking into my home to steal food or clothing. If you break in, you intend to harm us.
I almost died once because someone wanted to take something of mine, and it will not happen again.

< Message edited by scarlettjinx -- 1/9/2009 4:19:39 PM >

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 4:29:44 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I remember a news story from a few years ago where a man attacked a woman who worked at gym.  She fought back and sprayed the stuff they use for cleaning the equipment in his face.  He went down screaming and she called the police.
 
One of the dumber places to attack somebody would be in a restaurant kitchen, it is a vertiable warehouse of potential weapons.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
I have used fantastik kitchen spray to ward off an attacker, not quite the stopping power of a colt 45 but it worked.

Lucy


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RE: The use of deadly force. - 1/9/2009 4:30:43 PM   
Crush


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

lol.......sorry, rarely see anyone aside from Law Enforcement openly carrying weapons....and kind of glad of it.


Concealed carry says you shouldn't see anyone carrying....but it doesn't mean they aren't. 

Of course, it is perfectly OK to do so in Vermont.....ahhhhrrrrrrrggggghhhhh, *maple syrup* ....



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RE: The use of deadly force. - 1/9/2009 9:17:05 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline 		I guess I hope to evaluate the situation looking at how much trouble I will get into if I shoot someone under the circumstances  If someone broke into my house, if I could , I probably would follow our police chief's admonition and take a cell phone and gun to the bathroom.  Of course, if a family member was in danger I would shoot to kill.  

Shooting a person in my house does not appeal to me.  People do not die like protrayed on TV.  It is often a messy and extremely nauseus event.  Also, if you miss or the bullet goes through you probably will damage your own property.  I do not like messes or hiring an attorney to defend me if I shoot.  On the other hand, I will not run out of my house even if no one else is home.


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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/9/2009 9:42:32 PM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
I am pretty sure that if you use deadly force to stop a crime that isn't life threatening....ie, stealing your lawn mower or car, you could do more time than the thief....even in Georgia.


"I yelled for him to stop because I had already called the police. When the thief turned, I saw that he had a knife in his hand, and he pointed it at me in a threatening manner. I was afraid he was going to kill me"

< Message edited by OneMoreWaste -- 1/9/2009 9:43:16 PM >

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/11/2009 6:43:39 AM   
XNakisisaX


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		If its ok for nature, its ok for us. If the intruder/theif won't back down after a warning, take him out; uniforms included. If they die as a result of their wound later on, oh well, they were warned. Even animals warn when you are trespassing. If you stay there and they attack, its no fault but your own. It's the same in our world.

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/11/2009 8:21:05 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Someone that decides to steal things from others, already know the risks. Deadly force to protect property is okay with me, especially if more people would use it. Unlike murder, which is often heat of the moment or irrationality involved, theft can be detered if they knew there was a great chance of being shot. This has been shown true in lawless areas where disaters occured. The thieves steered clear of those stores and property that were protected.

It would also depend upon the property I was protecting. While they may be material things, some of those are not so easily replaced and may be needed to care for your family.

In some states you can effect a citizens arrest, and if they are committing a felony, you may use deadly force if the steps to such have been completed. A fleeing felon is often considered a danger to the community.

Then again I am not one of those that believes all life is worth saving. I believe that if you step across certain lines you may forfeit your life, and this is pretty natural consequence to me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

Reading a comment from a poster on another thread has raised a question which is the purpose here. The gist of the comment was this person stated that they'd use what ever force necessary to protect their property from being stolen, and if it means the person uses deadly force then so be it.
If this is the case, have we become that fixated upon protecting our possessions by any means at our disposal? I mean, a car or a motorcycle or even a race car is just a material object. Material possessions can be replaced.
  Secondly, because we have laws in place to protect our property, does the fact that these laws mean a person can use said laws as an easy justification for using deadly force to protect what we own when we have other avenues for justice? In other words, just because a law states we can us deadly force doesn't mean that is the only solution, it is a solution when other solutions have either failed or aren't good enough.




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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/11/2009 9:16:28 AM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Why did you use guns and trailer parks in the same sentence. I know a lot of peole who live in trailer parks that do not own guns. Are all trailer parks filled with run down homes and drunk hillbillys?. I can show you so called trailer parks where the home go up to $300,000 or more. They quit making trailers a long time ago. I live in what you might call a trailer park where the homes are all ovr $100,000. I don't know of anyone here who sits with their coon dog on the pourch playing a banjo and drinking moonshine(which I can make by the way)


I invite you to visit rural america, where the sports section consists of pictures of kids 5yrs old and up with their dead animals and guns in hand...Where they barely put a blip in there with no pics when a local gymnast wins multiple state titles. Where if you're in one of the many trailer parks (and yes they are trailers, registered with MVA), or living in the woods somewhere you better own a truck, have a full gun rack in it, and that picture of Calvin peeing on some Nascar driver's number....

Personally i don't own a gun, and woudn't use deadly force for property. But if someone hurts me or mine, they better kill me first because one of us is going down

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RE: The use of deadly force. - 1/15/2009 11:04:08 AM   
ArizonaSunSwitch


Posts: 205
Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bluepanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

My property no. Material things are replacable. Only my loved ones (including furry babies) get that sort of protection.


I would agree with that, with one provision - if they're in my house, they're dead. I don't know what their plans are, what they came in  there to do, and I'm taking no chances. I'm killing them. It was their misfortune to misinterpret the Grateful Dead bumper stickers  on the car in the driveway; they picked the wrong house.



And if you happen to live in one of the peoples republic's of New York, New Jersey or California, you're going to jail for a long time and upon leaving will be denied legal possession of a firearm.

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RE: The use of dedly force. - 1/15/2009 11:07:54 AM   
ArizonaSunSwitch


Posts: 205
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

For Ray: I dont see many people from outside the US actually complaining they havent got the right to bear arms.  In my limited experience, its relief at not having the gun culture ingrained.
Lucy
who would absolutely use whatever I have at hand to defend my family and property,
I have used fantastik kitchen spray to ward off an attacker, not quite the stopping power of a colt 45 but it worked.
Lucy
 


The kitchen spray defense works better if you hold a lit lighter in front of it. "The Beavis and Butthead self defense method".

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 80
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