RE: Gaza/Israel situation (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


piratecommander -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 12:52:56 AM)

Not by you

Pirate




philosophy -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 12:54:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: piratecommander


What would you be doing if you were in Gaza right now?(regardless of status)



....i'd like to say that i'd be taking a lot of pictures and talking to a lot of people. Sadly, i'd be more likely to be hiding somewhere and hoping that no-one in the IDF mistakes my house for a UN food warehouse.




piratecommander -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 12:59:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Absence of condemnation can be seen as approval.




I condemn the slaughter taking place in Israel and Gaza

Pirate




piratecommander -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 1:01:58 AM)

I always thought you looked just like a warehouse philo ..... silly me ! (no hard feelings ?)

Pirate




philosophy -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 1:05:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: piratecommander

I always thought you looked just like a warehouse philo .....


...just 'cos i have a well organised inventory and internal forklift trucks.......lol




piratecommander -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 1:08:03 AM)

Now you're reporting from the inside of it ...... some might consider that to be very biased .....

Pirate




philosophy -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 1:09:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: piratecommander

Now you're reporting from the inside of it ...... some might consider that to be very biased .....

Pirate


....given what i had for dinner it'll probably be characterised as ham'n'egg propaganda.......




ArticMaestro -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 2:31:31 AM)

Are we still talking abou the BBC article of civilains being shot durring the announced lulls?  It did note in the last few paragraphs, that the Isrealis claim that Hamas is firing at them durring the announced lulls, putting civilians in the crossfire, adn some are unfortunatly getting hit.   Seems a little slanted to give the first claim, and then go on for many paragraphs, before giving the other sides explanation.  But it can't really be called Hamas propaganda, as it does give both sides. 

But if it is true that Hamas is not respecting the lulls, doesn't Hamas deserve criticism? 




Politesub53 -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 2:54:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro

So I should take that to mean you don't have a real response, and are conceeding the point, owner59?


Here is a link for you Artic. The UN claim no shots were fired from the UN compound, the IDF claim there were. There are no claims of shots being fired from either the tv station or school though. Anyone worried about biased reporting please note the video is by the Jerusalem Post.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/Page/VideoPlayer&cid=1194419829128&videoId=1231950865650





Politesub53 -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 3:02:40 AM)

~ Fast reply ~

No doubt Hamas will be firing from positions close to schools ect, given the high density of population. No doubt some of the IDF shells hitting buildings may be accidental. Last week when a school was hit, the IDF claimed Hamas were firing from the building. The Palestinians claimed the IDF told them to go to the school for safety. Once this story came out, the IDF claimed it was caused by stray shells. This claim may well be true, but it doesn`t look good when the IDF claim every building they struck contained Hamas fighters.







RealityLicks -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 4:19:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Reality,

I understand.  And, I have no actual knowledge of his personality, other than it is apparent that he is a Palestinian (or is at least an Arab who lives in Gaza), and may therefore be suspected of less than perfect impartiality.

Several other news organizations in the Middle East have been "caught" using local stringers with suspect loyalties, and in submitting (and getting published) photoshopped pictures for news stories.

And there is a widespread belief that the BBC is specifically reporting activities in the ME and about Israel that tend to favor one side over the other.  From memory, there was even a leaked BBC document that gave guidance on how to cover the area, which many consider extremely biased against Israel, along with their own internal report that found widespread bias in other areas a little over a year ago.

Perhaps the reporter is the Edward R Murrow of Arabic journalist.  He is currently trapped in Gaza.  Hamas has been known to kill people they don't like.  If his reports were laudatory about the caution the Israelis were using .... do you think he might be in a slight bit of danger?

Does his family live there as well?

Hell, CNN played footsie with Saddam Hussein just to keep an office in the pre-war Iraq.

And, tell me ... does Hamas have a Public Relations department?  An information warfare office (by whatever name).

If so ... who or what would be the highest value conduit for them during this conflict, with most journalist not allowed in Gaza?

Finally, despite what Kaine is saying, please read my original post where this comes up, and notice the exact words I used .... "gives credance to" and "I have little doubt".  These are not claims of absolute knowledge as Kaine seems to be reading them.

But I do have experience in this specific, very technical area, and I see all the hallmarks of something less than completely impartial, unbiased reporting.

Regardless, please read the article that started this strand of the discussion, and tell me how many times the article makes claims (even with appropriate "weasel words") that say that Israeli soldiers are acting in a less than honorable manner, and stack that up against journalist standards of proof, and tell me if you believe the report is completely objective?

Firm

PS You and I have had the "Is the BBC biased?" discussion before, methinks.  [:D]

                                                                       I have read the article and I think it is completely impartial.  It does not state that the IDF committed these acts - of tricking Palestinian women and children into leaving their homes, then firing on them.  It simply states that Palestinians are making these claims.                                                                                                              Repeatedly, the BBC reporter writes that these incidents are unconfirmed, even by Israeli human rights orgs, like B'tselem.  There is no attempt to present the claims as fact, merely as allegations.  The underlying implication to the thinking reader is : if the international media were in there, we'd get clear facts.  We could conjecture either that the wide distribution of these claims suggests a remarkable ability for bereaved people to become Hamas misinformation agents while receiving hospital treatment or, on the other hand, that this is an IDF tactic, undeclared to the world at large.                                                                                                                                                      But it would be mere conjecture.                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you asked me to judge which version of the story I'd believe, the efforts of a fallible but reputable news institution or the PR wing of an invading army engaged in a horrifyingly assymmetric battle, I must say I'd choose the BBC.  IDF press briefings are by nature propaganda opportunities and in the words of a famous Tel Aviv resident (Mandy Rice Davies)  "They would say that, wouldn't they?"                                                                                          Firm, one source is being paid to report events and the other to present their employer in the best light.  I'm sure that both are doing their best to meet their brief, regardless of their ethnic origin or the likelihood of reprisals from disgruntled partisans on either side of the fence.   Let's have evidence  before accusations, not the other way around. 




Dnomyar -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 4:31:00 AM)

Why does hammas keep fireing rockets. Isreal offered hammas oppisition a chance to go in and mop this up but the were turned down. I think that Isreal is doing the right thing. They learned from their mistake of listening to the world and not killing Arafat when they had the chance. This crap probably would have stopped then.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 4:40:05 AM)

Those terrible Jews are stopping Humanitarian aid in Gaza! They won't let medical supplies and food in! (but we smart ham-asses can somehow smuggle rockets in... just don't ask too many questions. Look the other way while we stockpile rockets and blame the jews for everything...) Uh-huh uh huh.

I hope Israel wipes Ham-ass off the face of the Earth. Chicken-shit cowards hide in their mommies' ass-cracks. A herpes pimple has more honour than a Palestinian.




RealityLicks -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 4:54:09 AM)

HK, it's simply a logical fallacy to ask those calling for a ceasefire to retroactively argue against rocket attacks -- and well you know it.   If the guy down the road is a serial killer but I just off one troublesome neighbour, do I get a "by"?  I think not.                                                                                                                                                                                                  I broadly agreed with the aims of the IRA but did I enjoy growing up in a city under constant threat of their bombing campaigns?  Of course not.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But Britain didn't use fighter bombers, tanks and attack helicopters against West Belfast.  Isn't it anti-Semitic to hold the Israelis to a lesser standard than other democratic countries and if not, why not?  Because they're only up against "towelheads"?




RealityLicks -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 5:22:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Why does hammas keep fireing rockets. Isreal offered hammas oppisition a chance to go in and mop this up but the were turned down. I think that Isreal is doing the right thing. They learned from their mistake of listening to the world and not killing Arafat when they had the chance. This crap probably would have stopped then.
Israel can sit down and talk with Hamas at any time, end the repression and thereby permanently end rocket attacks.  Why do the Israelis allow illegal settlers?                                                                                                                          Both sides have made fatally stupid mistakes in the past.  That does not excuse making fresh ones today.




thishereboi -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 5:34:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: piratecommander


What would you be doing if you were in Gaza right now?(regardless of status)



....i'd like to say that i'd be taking a lot of pictures and talking to a lot of people. Sadly, i'd be more likely to be hiding somewhere and hoping that no-one in the IDF mistakes my house for a UN food warehouse.


Well if you don't want mistakes, then don't let anyone use your house to shoot from. Safer that way.

Me, I would be trying to help Israel stop the rockets.




thishereboi -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 5:42:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Why does hammas keep fireing rockets.


Because if they stop, Israel will stop and people won't feel sorry for them. They want public support. If they keep firing, then Israel will keep fighting and more civilians will be killed. hammas is hoping support will switch over to them and they will get the help they need to wipe out the Israelis.




piratecommander -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 6:56:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro

Are we still talking abou the BBC article of civilains being shot durring the announced lulls?  It did note in the last few paragraphs, that the Isrealis claim that Hamas is firing at them durring the announced lulls, putting civilians in the crossfire, adn some are unfortunatly getting hit.   Seems a little slanted to give the first claim, and then go on for many paragraphs, before giving the other sides explanation.  But it can't really be called Hamas propaganda, as it does give both sides. 

But if it is true that Hamas is not respecting the lulls, doesn't Hamas deserve criticism? 


(read post#:203)

Not criticism , condemnation ......

Pirate




philosophy -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 8:26:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

A herpes pimple has more honour than a Palestinian.


...would that be all Palestinians? Generalise much?

Usually HK your posts are reasoned summations of your position, but the above quote borders on bigotry. 




philosophy -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/16/2009 8:29:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Last week when a school was hit, the IDF claimed Hamas were firing from the building. The Palestinians claimed the IDF told them to go to the school for safety. Once this story came out, the IDF claimed it was caused by stray shells. This claim may well be true, but it doesn`t look good when the IDF claim every building they struck contained Hamas fighters.


...or when the IDF change their story when inconvenient facts come out that prove them liars.




Page: <<   < prev  9 10 [11] 12 13   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.03125