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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 10:23:12 AM   
agirl


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I don't think it's a right or wrong issue at all.

It's not up to anyone else to judge how important the reasons for leaving a relationship are. If someone loves their wife/husband with *all their heart* and has *everything else, the love the fun*.......and STILL chooses to leave .......it's obviously important enough to THEM at that time.

These things are never, ever as cut and dried as *just the kink*.  You can be extremely contented in many ways with a partner while STILL being discontented in others. Few people leave longstanding, contented relationships *for a bit of kink*. It's usually a LOT more complicated than that.

There's an intricate pattern to all human pairings and it's rarely useful to try to reduce it down to *right or wrong*.

agirl



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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 10:23:50 AM   
YourhandMyAss


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I disagree, at least for me, being kinky, and kink isn't "just a sensation" Kinky stuff, and doing them with my partner, is what  makes me happy and fufilled, and which satisfied my need for intamacy.

If he's not kinky and I can't share that with him, one of my biggest basic needs aren't going to be met, I will be unhappy and eventually resentful, of him, and our relationship, and it'll show.

And they would have to live with knowing I wasn't satisfied with them, and either break it off themselves, or find someway to live with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Petruchio

Your example doesn't fit me, but I know what you're saying. The key comes down to this:

A kink is a sensation. Are you willing to end your marriage for a sensation?

Different people will answer in different ways, but I have observed one thing. While a few people will find long term happiness, the majority won't. Most will end up as unhappy outside their marriage as they were in it and a few will end up miserable. They just had more drama getting there.

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 10:34:34 AM   
kittykat4play


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OP,  from my own point of view.  If one is unhappy about one area of the relationship, what ever it may be, that unhappiness tends to shift to other areas. And i am NOT talking about dirty socks on the floor or the cap left off the toothpaste.  One starts to be unhappy with other issues that before were tolerable and they have just dealt with.  i believe that while sex and play of any kind isn't the most importan, it does have a large place in a relationship.  If i feel like i am not satisfied sexually, what other points in my relationship am i missing satisifaction of and visa versa.  i believe that mostly it comes down to more mental then physical. 

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 10:34:48 AM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

I've heard of older people who knew they were kinky but didn't know how to find a kinky lover (because of the times). They were married in vanilla relationships. So fast forward 15 years and they discovered the internet, and realized that there were whole bdsm communities. And now that hole that was always there is now gaping because now that person realizes how much they've been missing. So then they introduce a few kinky things to their partner. but they aren't really interested. The couple try things but the person realizes that her partner is simply tolerating the acts but not enjoying them/dreading them. So now the person is sexually unfulfilled. The person is not a cheater and never will be. She or He still loves his/her mate with all of their hearts. The sexual satisfaction just isn't there.

The question is is it right to end a marriage to pursue another partner who is into the lifestyle? keep in mind that EVERYTHING else in the marriage is there. The love and The fun. Just not the sex/kinkies. So that means that a person would end a marriage for sex basically. But, is that right? I've heart of marriages ending on here because their partner was vanilla. And, at first, I'm like "Good for you! Get what you want and deserve." But then I think about how I'd feel if I were 24 years (my parents have been married 24 years) and my husband comes out and says "Sweetheart I love you soooo so much...but you really don't do it for me. I want submit to a Dominant woman and walk around on all fours. I know we tried that 2 months ago and I know you hated it. I need a woman who is Dominant. Sorry. It's over" I'd flip out. He's leaving me because he's not sexually satisfied? All the love in the world and his dick doesn't think I'm good enough?How would 1 justify this kind of thing?


rednicky,

Here is the factual on your question. Sex is important as hell but in the final analysis ir comprises perhaps only 5% of the time in a relationship of marriage. does it make sense to chuck a solid 95% to find an elusive 5%?

CP

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 10:36:19 AM   
DesFIP


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I don't believe anyone would end it simply because their partner doesn't share their sexual kinks. In relationships that end because of kink incompatibility, there's a lot more going on. No relationship is absolutely perfect except for half an hour of kinky sex a week.

If you talk to your partner about your needs and perhaps they try it but the whole time it is apparent they look down on you for wanting this, their opinion of you changes from being someone they love and respect to being someone they think badly of and are ashamed of - then people may say you are separating because of the kink but in reality it is because of the way they now see and treat you.

However if you need a dominant partner and your partner treats you as a second class citizen because you do things for him/her without them wanting you to, believing you aren't strong enough to make your own decisions, engaging in casual cruelties because of your need to submit - even when you don't know that's what is driving you - that's when people learn the term submissive and decide submitting to someone who uses you and never gives you back anything is not something you are willing to do anymore.

I don't know of anyone, no matter how liberal, who suddenly one night has it thrown in their face that they are not capable of sexually satisfying their partner who will not be hurt by it, who will not feel as though the person they married lied to them before and all through the marriage by not telling them the truth about their sexual needs. Because you don't wake up at 47 years old with a brand new craving to be led around on a leash. You had it all along and lied to your partner about who you were and what you needed.

You have simplified things and aren't seeing the true picture. It's never that everything is perfect except for one small item. It's that you aren't hearing the rest of it.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 1/22/2009 10:47:36 AM >


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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 10:46:12 AM   
YourhandMyAss


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Because sometimes, and it's happened a lot and will happen a lot , the Spouse in question refuses to give permission, and does equate it to cheating.

And there for, if you're the kind who won't cheat, or sneak around and deceive your spouse, you're dead in the water if they think it's cheating to go outside your relationship, even if there's no sex even remotely involved.

And plus , for me personally, taking this out of the real of some people........ and bringing it into my realm, I am turned on by doing kinky things, And yes I've gone the whole rout of a partner who's not ok with doing bdsm or kink with me allowing me to play with others, as long as sex wasn't involved in ANY way, oral, anal or vaginal, and my arousal, stopped with the ending of the playtime.

It wasn't like get beat tied up flogged and droped waxon, and go home and still be aroused, and then want to fuck him now.

I also think you're missing the point of the word, sexually incompatible, or perhaps my definition, is just different.

If I am sexually incommpatible with someone I am still dating, despite finding out we're sexually incompatible , I will not be going to get horny with someone else and coming to my partner to fuck THEM, since being incompatible sexually to me, means I don't want to fuck them.



quote:

ORIGINAL: RayvenGoddess

There are ways to satisfy a need for kink without breaking up a sexually incompatible marriage or cheating you know.
  While many people do associate BDSM activities and sex, there are people out there who are play partners who never have sex before/during/after a scene.  Many pros out there (both Dom and sub), lay down the law that there will be no insertion of any sort by any party during a scene to avoid any taint of the prostitution.  I don't see why, with the vanilla spouse's knowledge and understanding, that a kinky and faithful spouse can't form a platonic and non-sexual "play" realtionship with someone in the lifestyle and then go home after a meeting with them and bring their turned on state into the marriage bed.

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 10:54:28 AM   
SunNMoon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

We like to trivialize kink as "just sensations or just sex", but in all honesty, the issue goes a bit differently than that. It's about being understood and being with someone who is able to relate and love all your facets of who you are.




Thank you Mr Rabbit, I didn’t mean to totally chop up your post but this struk me as the central issue here.
 
Marriages end for a lot of different reasons. I think the divorce rate is 1 in 2 at the moment but I’m not sure. Kink or ds is just one of the reasons it can end. The trick is if this is such a central part of who someone is, is it fair to either person to be in their relationship? The way I look at marriage is being two things one of which is being accepted for who you really are. If it is part of the core of who you are, it’s not going to make you happy or your partner(s) happy by rejection. Its one of those things that is just sad.
 
Now if the marriage ends both people now have a chance to find someone that will be able to love and accept them for who they each are. I’m not saying that people should just give up on seeing if they can make it work but sometimes it’s just not going to be able to work out at all.


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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 11:00:07 AM   
agirl


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It's rarely JUST tied to *sex*.  It's more usually down to understanding or the lack of.

In long relationships people explore many things in their minds, people may have good communication on MANY levels over decades but it often falls outside of the *deep and meaningfuls* after yearseaspecially once sproglings come along. Life takes on a momentum of it's own and there are responsibilities to fulfil that take precedence over what people may consider,* things they've lived without or suppressed*.

Also relationships can go in phases........ seemingly really close for a while and then not. When you're used to longterm you can ride them with the knowledge that you WILL be happier in a while. It can often take YEARS before any serious, threatening issues arise.

Another aspect is that we often get *hitched* to unsuitable people but find enough to work with and levels of contentment that suffice; people get along, they make do with the bed they made etc........It often 'appears' that people are walking away from, what looks from the outside, a pretty decent marriage.

agirl



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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 11:00:57 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Ok, this is just my opinion, and it's worth about as much as anyone gives credence to, but I believe that relationships only thrive when both parties are engaged in nurturing and growing the relationship. I've always been "half a degree off", to quote a friend of my companion's. In the past quarter century, I've been involved in many relationships, including a long-term (13 year) monogamous het marriage, and am currently in a relationship that has spanned over a decade, and is poly and ambisexterous. I was completely up front with all of my partners about the things I like and don't like, and the kind of person that I am, including my fetishes and 'off' interests.

So why did earlier relationships end? Well, mine ended, for the post part, really positively, and where I came away as a friend, or at least maintained civil interactions with the folks who were no longer intimates in my life... but our relationships ended because one or the other of us (or sometimes both/all of us) had lost interest in being engaged in nurturing the relationship. It wasn't just because someone got distracted by a new interest that the others of us didn't share. If we still had a common commitment to the family, outside interests didn't sway the foundation of our communion.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you or your husband are not willing to do the work of continuing to grow your marriage, and you're unfulfilled across the board, then leave the marriage -- but don't let a 'hobby', even a defining hobby (like I am defined, in part, by my poly nature, my bossiness, and my love for needles, scalpels, blood, and insistence on retaining my body modifications), cause you to throw away a relationship where you're happy and willing to work out the ideosyncracies.




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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 11:01:05 AM   
BitchGoddessD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Some people, when stressed or unhappy, get kinkier and kinkier fantasies.  So they develop a tremendous "unmet need."  It's like starting to smoke (or any other addictive pattern) when you're under stress.

By itself, beating someone's ass -- or getting your own ass raped -- won't make you happier.  Buying a red sports car won't make you any younger, either.  But not a lot of logic goes into these decisions.


Very true.  The majority of males, married and not, that I get personal responses from ads, fit this category.  They say they are looking to experience sexual things they have never before had the opportunity to experience.  I am so excited they picked me.  *sarcasm*  They really do believe that is the reason their relationship is/was a mess.  They can't see past their dicks.  It baffles me how they can't see the big picture and their part in it.  And they don't understand why I want no part of it. 

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 11:10:25 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't know of anyone, no matter how liberal, who suddenly one night has it thrown in their face that they are not capable of sexually satisfying their partner who will not be hurt by it, who will not feel as though the person they married lied to them before and all through the marriage by not telling them the truth about their sexual needs. Because you don't wake up at 47 years old with a brand new craving to be led around on a leash. You had it all along and lied to your partner about who you were and what you needed.



I think your last sentence  also simplified *things*.

People DON'T always have cravings that impinge on their lives or their partner's lives in such a way that they *lie* about them.

That might very well be the case for SOME people, but a great many others haven't any clarity on these things.

For a lot of people it's a gradual dawning or unravelling and they can be in situations where they know damn well it will not be well received or their responsibilities outweigh what they may see as * something not terribly significant*.

agirl

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 11:33:43 AM   
Lucylastic


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Im coming up on 24 years with my hubby, I love him madly, he loves me. 11 years ago, I found BDSM... we talked and talked and talked, he tried dominating, and submitting, for a year all together, we came to the conclusion that he really had no interest in the dynamic or the level of kink I wanted. He encouraged me to go to munches, he was my biggest supporter when I started my munch,  he encouraged me with my partner, he encourages me 99% of the time to enjoy and grow. He met my bdsm partner 10 years ago and came to several events and parties and knows many of my kinky friends. He knows we willl be to gether TDDUP, but hes not willing to deny me what he "cannot" provide. While we have problems(who doesnt), we still love and respect each other.  Talking with him about my kink desires was one of the hardest things I have ever done, but also in thelong term, the best thing tooo.
Lucy



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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 12:48:40 PM   
indigo302


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian
Is it right to be married in the first place? With most pairings, I'd say no, as they don't seem to comprehend the vows they take, or in the very least give little credence to them. There's not much wiggle room in til death do us part.

The undressed question, I suppose, is if it's right to leave a committed relationship to whet one's appetite for fetishes and erotic adventure. No one can possibly answer that absolutely, but one might say it's tragic the couple in question are unable to explore it together.


Bolding is mine -

It can't be much of a commitment if one would leave it simply to get their erotic adventures. 

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 1:01:35 PM   
Vendaval


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Only the people directly involved can make a decision about such matters.  There are seldom easy, clear cut answers and much confusion about potential outcomes in such a situation.

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 1:07:16 PM   
pixidustpet


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i'm literally a month past my second divorce.  BDSM played a part in it, yes.  i lost any respect he had towards me when he found that out.  he doesnt have a kink bone in his body, doesnt understand it, thinks we're all freaks. 
 
another part of it was that after 16 years of marriage, he turned away from me.  no sex for the last 2 years of the marriage, he expected me to be a service sub because hey, isnt that what a good wife does?  but at the same time i was berated for treating him well and giving him what he wanted.  go figure that one, i still dont understand it.

edited cause i screwed up somehow...
 
add to this the 10 year age difference between us, (me older) and we just plain grew in different directions, oh and a bankruptcy, two foreclosures, a car repo, and just an assload of financial difficulties in those 16 years...and the marriage couldnt survive.
 
there is rarely just *one* factor in a divorce, no matter how it may seem so.
 
kitten

< Message edited by pixidustpet -- 1/22/2009 1:10:06 PM >

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 1:10:24 PM   
CreativeDominant


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I don't spend a lot of time wondering whether or not tis right or wrong for someone to leave a marriage for whatever the stated reason is.  After all, I've been there...leaving a marriage...and I can't tell you how many times I've heard outright, or have had it alluded to, that the only reason I left my marriage was because I suddenly became "kinky".  That's it...no other reason given.  Reasons such as:

My partner pulled away from me after the birth of our second um and no matter how much I "courted" her like a good little Alan Alda type, it didn't make any significant changes in our dying sex life.

My partner saw it as entirely fair that I should help with the raising and nurturing of the ums, the cooking and cleaning, the laundry, her supervising my fixing of things and telling me how it could be done better (after all, her stepfather was a handyman) while studiously maintaining that women were not supposed to mow the lawn or check the oil on their vehicles or...God forbid...put the oil in if the car needed it.

I got too caught up in maintaining my practice during those years...wanted to provide for my kids and for the future for the ex and I. 

I got too caught up in caring for my mother after her stroke and did not pay as much attention to my marriage during those two years between the first stroke and her death as I should have.

I got tired of trying to be Alan Alda and slowly came to realize that much of the sensitivity and caring and listening I had done for my ex and other women before her had been MY version of "getting over" to "get laid".  When I thought back over the years, I realized that in those relationships that I truly looked back with fondness on, I had been more like the "me" I am now than the "me" I was with her.  This became even clearer as I turned to the computer in rebellion against what was cold and lifeless in the bedroom while still...in a frustratingly maddening oxymoron...being full of life and love outside the bedroom. 

Many times people speak of a light being turned on when they discovered BDSM/Ds on the computer/through books/etc..  That is exactly what it was for me and for me, it was a sharp light that amplified the good in our relationship but also brought into stark relief the cold and dark areas.  My "Alan Alda" still came through tougher at first...I suggested counseling, I waited patiently for her to work out her "issues", I took her to her doctor over and over again to be told one time that it was anxiety, one time it was fatigue, another time depression, another time that she was just too "overwhelmed".  When I walked out at the start of the separation, something clicked within her and she knew that perhaps she should try and so, she made half-hearted attempts at delving into D/s and BDSM.  She made attempts at increasing the sexual frequency towards approaching something akin to what it had been our first 10 years together.  She made half-hearted attempts to let me win our discussions once in awhile and make the decisions as to what we were going to do.  But, in all fairness to her, even if her attempts had been fully and freely given, it would not have made a difference...10 years of gradual erosion had worn away my commitment.  And so, I told her to file for divorce. 

And this leads to something someone else said...why would someone leave just for kink?
Why not explore it with your partner OR get your partner to let you play with a pro? 

While I hope that what Ive said, and what has been said by others, has been noted in regards to the first question... rarely does anyone leave just for kink, just look at the complexity of the answers given within this topic... here is an answer to the second question:
I tried introducing D/s and BDSM into our relationship.  She could not get past the idea that everything should be discussed on an equal basis and that doesn't work too well in D/s.  Now people will ask..."but don't you discuss things with your submissive in much the same manner?" to which I would reply "Yes, but with one caveat...whereas she grew up with the twisted logic that under the "new equality", discussion of everything was ONLY equal when the woman won at the end, my submissives have understood that they win only by proving themselves more right than me and that what they want fits into the parameters of where I am leading the dynamic."  They also know that in the end, I always have the decision to make...whether I choose what I want, what they want, or a combination of both.
As for going off and playing non-sexually with a pro...that doesn't work for me.  I have rarely done scenes with submissives wherein there was not some sort of sexual component.  In those scenes where I have, it was usually done with a "secondary" submissive as a build-up to sex with MY submissive.  In my marriage, my wife could not stand the fact that I worked on women all the time who took their clothes off and put on gowns.  She could not stand the fact that I was still friends with many of the girls I had known...not necessarily dated...before her, ESPECIALLY if they were single.  She could not stand the fact in later years that I found a woman I had seen on T. V. attractive or the fact that one time, in a moment of stupidity, I had admitted that I occasionally daydreamed/fantasized about sexual situations involving other women who were not her.
And finally...as noted, I tried exploring D/s and BDSM with my partner.  In case you have not read of this before on here, that knowledge of my interests was used by my ex once we divorced to wage a vindictive battle that almost cost me my ums, damaged my practice and damaged some family relationships.  Ask any professional whose livelihood depends on other people needing their services rather than any material goods you have to offer what bad word of mouth about your character can do to your business and perhaps you will see why some choose, after more consideration than what I gave it, not to even try.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 1/22/2009 1:20:43 PM >

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 1:15:56 PM   
daddysliloneds


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it's right to give up your marriage for whatever reason you feel is valid and important to you and not right for anyone else to judge whether someone who chooses to do so is right or wrong.

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 1:20:43 PM   
feydeplume


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Can I ask a question about the scenario? Is the desire for kink just a bedroom thing or is it something that person A wants to have permeate their lives? I think it makes a difference, at least from the answers so far. 

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 1:36:58 PM   
lateralist1


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Marriage used to be a social and financial necessity for a woman. It isn't any longer for a lot of women.
We can now have a child without being married.
We can now have sex without being married.
We can live in any kind of relationship we want to.
We can often support ourselves.
Things have changed.
However some of us still look for the way it used to be.
Just like women men marry for a variety or composite reasons.
Regular sex. Children. Ownership. A life partner.
What we need when we are young is not what we need as we get older.
The people that get married when they are young often did so because it was the done thing but often as we get older we become more confident and therefore more independent. Independence and confidence are necessary to look for who we need rather than the person who is available.
The internet makes it a lot easier to do that.
Excitement in looking for the new can outweigh the security of the well known.
Some people can live perfectly contented lives without sexual and emotional satisfaction others can't. It's not difficult to understand why some people chose to stay together while others chose to part. Guilt really shouldn't come into it.
There is no right or wrong. Just choices. That's why some people need a Dom/me.

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RE: Is it right to give up on your marriage for a BDSM ... - 1/22/2009 1:56:02 PM   
E2Sweet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

...The question is is it right to end a marriage to pursue another partner who is into the lifestyle? keep in mind that EVERYTHING else in the marriage is there. The love and The fun. Just not the sex/kinkies. So that means that a person would end a marriage for sex basically. But, is that right?... How would 1 justify this kind of thing?


I think it boils down to which is more important to each individual within the couple, the marriage or kink. Isn't that the question to be answered first and foremost?

As far as the morality and the justification, in your words OP, you seem to be struggling to find the justification. I think that says a great deal about how you feel about this scenario internally.


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E2Sweet
"If it doesn't make you smile then chances are you're not doing it right."

(in reply to rednicky)
Profile   Post #: 40
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