RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?"

RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (Full Version)

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LdyyR -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/10/2009 8:19:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tavane It might be that many attorneys are wealthy enough to afford such services, moreso than an "average" person, yet they are quite numerous. There is nothing about the profession itself which would generate submsision. It's a very aggressive profession, and nothing which would attract submissive males to the profession. I agree with you here Stress doesn't have anything to do with submission or sexuality. I disagree with you here, for some it has everything to do with it. Service submissives undoubtedly vary infinitely, both as to desires, and as people. Very true. Many people are self-absorbed, no matter what their erotic inclinations, so it's inappropriate to judge any sub or dom by one's experiences with prior persons. Actually it's very appropriate, since you posted this topic for opinions and what I gave was based on my real life experiences and feeling on the matter. I'm just stating why I'm not so sold on the idea anymore I do agree that nothing we say applies to all or any one in any given situation.. This was not a critigue of you. I think if there's a couple that can happily pull it off, I'd personally be thrilled and little envious. Because it really does sound lovely. Never mind about that link, don't think it will much matter. Just my opinion.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/10/2009 8:24:03 PM)
This isn't a court of law, and I doubt your college debate team argument-creation tactics will win you many fans on a message board populated by people with realtime BDSM experience. I'm a professional scientist, and I speak from facts and data, not off-the-cuff defensive opinion. There have been many studies performed -- and dissertations written -- about the reasons for "sexual deviance." It is not the case that everyone's opinion is just as valid as everyone else's. Some people really are more informed than others, because they have obtained data from a larger sample space. There is an enormous pool of "submissive" men on this site who think they know everything -- and get bitter, because they don't understand why dominant women aren't interested in them. Be careful, or you might fall into that hole.

Tavane -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/10/2009 9:25:55 PM)
I'm not interested in scientific studies of sexual deviance. I've read many of them, and they are virtually always based upon interviews with people who have sexual deviations. Many of them are from convicted criminals, who will blame their actions on anything. It's quite obvious to me that TG studies have no value whatsoever. They are based largely upon interviews with people who wish to change gender. These clinics need to protect themselves by establishing protocols, so if a person is unhappy with the change, the clinic can point to the reality that the person met these protocols by interviews. The transsexuals all know what these protocols are, since they know others who have convinced clinics to change their gender, so they simply tell the clinics what is necessary to get what the TS wants. That's why I was somewhat surprised that I enountered no resisteance when I went to a clinic, since I flatly told them I thought that extreme sexual arousal by a person with an incredible sex drive was the only possible motivation for a person to engage in such a bizarre and permanent thing. I had several arguments with my psychologist on that issue. Sexual arousal can be so intense that it can motivate a person to become an actual lifetime slave to another person. It really has almost no limits. I find the contention that "I have a female brain" to be frankly silly. A female brain is genetic, and also results from a lifetime of being raised as a female, encouraged to be a female, and living as a female, not because of desire, but just because it is a natural thing. Females have no erotic pleasure in wearing dresses, or high heels, or whatever, any more than males experience it from wearing very masculine clothing and growing beards. People with sexual deviations will rarely tell the entire truth, even if they understand it, and studies are based upon people who are interested in being interviewed, which may be totally different from responses from deviants who aren't interested in being interviewed. In other words, these tests and studies are of only marginal value. I've seen crossdressers who insist they are straight to their wives, engage in passionate kisses on a dance floor with another guy. Most people have little concern for the truth, and sexual deviants have even less. Many of them might just be having fun with the interviewer. They do generate some interesting information, but as a matter of making "scientific" pronouncements, they have virtually no value. Virtually every TG person I've ever met, when I asked him "Right after orgasm, do you still desire to be a female/feminine", answered me "No." The same holds true for submission. I have no interest in it after an orgasm, though ten minute later I'm interested in it again. People who make friends within a subculture are far more truthful with each other than with any interviewer, so I have little interest in "scientific" tests and data samplings. I was a bit suprised that I had almost no opposition to my own desire to actually become feminine, since I said these same things to the psychologist at the Clinic, and told her I thought her protocols and standards were based on nothing remotely accurate, but I had no opposition. I think they were impressed with my honesty, and my realization of the consequences of what I was asking them to do, and that it was my life and my decision, regardless of what my motivation was. I've observed people my entire life, and had TG desires and also submissive desires, and have talked to scores of TG people, so I'm not ignorant in this area, and have read between the lines of posts on sites like this, and FlR sites, and elsewhere, so I'm not interested in somebody telling me that they know everything, simply because they have had several actual experiences. That's like dating three blondes, and thinking you know more about blondes than a guy who has never dated one. Your experiences are what they are, and nothing more or less than that.

Tavane -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/10/2009 9:55:00 PM)
I wanted to add that I'm a very friendly person, and enjoy making friends, but I'm here to learn and discuss, and any person who thinks that (s)he doesn't want to be my friend simply because I won't subordinate my views to his/hers, based upon some personal experiences with a few people who may or may not represent anything significant, and probably don't, is not a person I'm that interested in, to begin with. This is a very unusual subculture, with virtually no reliable data, and people in it vary infinitely. Any points of view are worth discussing and examining, including mine.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/10/2009 10:07:09 PM)
I hear that you have felt alone and not-understood for much of your life. There is nothing I can do to take that away. However, it only took me two posts to hit a raw nerve. This means (1) you're still uncomfortable in yourself, and (2) I might be a decent judge of kinky humanity, if I can hone in on a core issue so quickly. This is the most-trafficked kinky message board in the world. You will see at the point of practice how many people back your position that scientific studies are of no value... or that professional dominants who have scened with dozens or hundreds of clients have no more basis for their opinions than men whose kinklife has been mostly in their heads. I'm honestly not trying to hurt you, or belittle you. I'm trying to explain how you can embrace a part of yourself you have been estranged from for so long. Please understand that 99% of sub men on this site disappear when a dom asks to meet in real. A lot of this is because of a profound disconnect between fantasy and reality. To the extent you share this disconnect, you hold yourself back.

Tavane -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/10/2009 10:21:09 PM)
I don't feel hurt or belittled at all. I enjoy discussing things, and expect lots of disagreement and alternative views. I don't have much patience with people who dismiss opinions because of lack of experience, however, and somehow feel that their own limited experiences somehow give them massive insight into what is an infinitely varying world of people. Pro doms experience a single type of person; those people who are willing to spend money on pro doms. To suggest that this is your "average" sub is simply ridiculous, especially when it comes to subs like service submissives, since I would never consider paying for such a thing, despite that it's impossibly pleasurable, and it wouldn't surprise me if most service subs are not dissimilar, but I don't know, and neither do you. I've never felt alone or misunderstood. I've always had lots of friends and almsot always a serious girlfriend, and as you will note, I'm not bashful about my views, so it's difficult to misunderstand what I believe in, if you speak English. I tend to be quite blunt and very clear, not because I'm not friendly, but it's simply the way I discuss things, perhaps influenced by the aggression of my profession, where you try to destroy the other party without mercy. I'm a very nice person, and a mistress would find me so polite and deferential that it would be wholly different. I'm sure you won't be surprised that one of my ex-girlfriends most used phrases was "Shut up!"

Tavane -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/10/2009 10:25:33 PM)
I'm not surprised that subs chicken out, but that's not been my experience. I was willing to meet a couple of women, at a place of their choosing, and they are the ones who wouldn't do it, and did meet one very nice woman, and we had dinner.

Tavane -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/10/2009 10:48:43 PM)
I wanted to add that I have been a bit blunt and don't mean to be rude, so apologize for that. When I get to arguing, I need to put a hold on that. Also, I have had a bit of experience, since I was a slave for a female friend for awhile, though we didn't live together. I did her laundry, and would do her nails and massage her feet for hours whenever she came over, and I loved every single minute of it, even doing the laundry. I absolutely know I would love that, and wish I could have done it for her every single night. It would certainly be the mistress who put a brake on my desires to pamper her, which I would understand; since I'd never get tired of it, and am certain that I'd never get tired of cleaning a mistress's house, washing and ironing her clothes, cooking and serving her meals, and doing whatever else she wished. I could easily accept that she'd want to so some things herself, but if she didn't, that would be wonderful.

DiamanteDamsel -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/10/2009 11:21:52 PM)
I can tell you that I would appreciate a domestic service sub. Like many others in this thread, I wouldn't want the burden of financial domination, but I have my own money managed for me, and could arrange to have a sub's finances managed under my oversight and direction, for example. On the other hand, being retired, the wife-style scenario the OP described is not for me; once in college a newly self-identified boyfriend suddenly began showing up at the end of each class, taking my books under one arm and me under the other, and by lunchtime I felt like I was in jail! D

Tavane -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 7:17:04 AM)
That brings back memories. I think in high school it was not that uncommon for a boyfriend to sometimes carry his girlfriend's books for her, and sometimes would walk her home from school. We didn't have backpacks then. You just carried your books under your arm, and girls carried them in an arm, but across their chest. We didn't carry the girl, just her books, and it had nothing to do with submission. It was just a nice gesture guys did sometimes. These are very vague memories. I don't know why financial control would be a burden, since it would be the slave who opened the bills, wrote the checks, and mailed them out after the mistress signed them, and kept track of her income and expenditures. (if she wanted him to know that). I saw a site on FLRs which did think that was a good idea in a somewhat vanilla relationship, but female led. The wife spent money as she pleased, but the husband had to ask her for things he wanted. His check went into her account, and he'd get an allowance for lunch money and small stuff. She'd often ask his opinion on things, but she made all decisions on expenditures, where they'd go on vacation, and everything else. If she wanted to buy a car, she'd just buy it. If he wanted a new shirt, he'd have to ask her, and she could pick out his clothes if she wished. She'd decide what she wanted him to cook for her each night, or what she wanted to cook for them, if she liked cooking, but his opinions were important to her. It was just that she always made the decisions if they disagreed, so it wasn't extreme, but she was the final authority on everything, so it was very like the 1950's household, with lots of communication and love, but the husband always deferred to the wife. That's incredibly appealing to me, and I dont' see it as any more of a burden on the wife than it was on the husband 50 years ago. If a woman actually liked housework, laundry, and cooking, then she'd do it. I personally don't know why a woman would enjoy that kind of stuff, except cooking, (but not dishes), but if she did, she'd do it, but knowing how much he enjoyed doing it for her, I'd think she'd have him do most of that,and probably all the laundry and housework. I don't see that as a bizarre lifestyle, just a role reversal from what was a very common lifestyle from long ago. Unless she was very controlling, the husband would play golf and do the things he'd do anyway, but it would be with her permission, and there would never be any arguments in the household, since although she'd listen to him, once she made a decision, that would be final. Although perhaps most women wouldn't have much pampering, being in that kind of role reversal would still be a wonderful way to live for a submissive, and I think it would be a very nice life for the woman, too. Women still complain because it's rare for a husband to do an equal share of domestic tasks and child care. In that scenario, the husband would do all or almost all of them, or whatever she wanted, while she was free to watch TV, read, or go out shopping with her girlfriends, and the husband's role was a supporting role, and attuned to making her happy. Many women were very happy in that kind of life long ago, and it would be a really nice way to live.

Lockit -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 8:55:32 AM)
Tavane, you came in asking questions about what type of d/s relationship you wanted... yet post after post, you seem to already know all the answer's and have some very set views on women/dominant's ect. I have seen you post a number of things that nearly crossed my eyes and I wanted to respond... but thought... what use is it? He has his mind set... so why is he asking us anything? If you know all that you claim to know and want what you want... cool... good for you... enjoy. You just want to discuss or debate.. cool again, good for you... enjoy. But my personal take is... I couldn't do anything with you because you have set the stage already and you just need someone to fill it, even if you do say it is the mistress's choice. You are so set in your ways and what you invision, yet have not yet lived, that it would take a bull dozer to move you on your stance of whatever it is. There isn't much room for change and as a dominant, I would have to say that even if I were interested in a very fem male who considers himself more fem than I am because I don't get off to silky clothes/women's clothing and don't wish to wear it as much as he... according to him... I could not involve myself simply because he has already taken the lead and has set his mind.

Tavane -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 9:16:35 AM)
I'm just exploring it and being honest. My fantasies are what they are. I can't change them, so when you say "my mind is made up", in that respect you are correct. What I'd be willing to compromise on is however another matter entirely. Although they are only fantasies, the realitiy is that when something turns you on in a fantasy, it will turn you on in real life. What is different about real life is that it's not just about your fantasies, but rather about what the other person also wants, and she is the one who is the mistress. However, if a sub doesn't get substantial pleasure from having enough of his fantasies fulfilled, then he's not going to be happy in the relationship. I've had several vanilla relationships and was very happy. I'd have loved for them to have included submission, but it didn't make me unhappy that they didn't. I was still happy. I'm exploring it, since it would be wonderful to find a woman who was substantially compatible with me, and I'm not interested in another vanilla relationship, and having to explain to another woman my kinks, knowing she won't like them. I'd much prefer to find a woman who not only accepts them, but enjoys them. I don't see that happening. Submissive men are very rare, and dominant women even rarer. FLR sites might have a couple of thousand people who are "members", but when hundreds of millions of people are on the net, that's miniscule. Men are not interested in it, and women aren't, either. Fortunately places like this exist, and it's clear that many people here have found others and happiness, so I see nothing wrong with posting about what I enjoy, on the chance that I could find someone, but being older and also somewhat feminine, it's pretty clear that the chances of that are almsot nil, but I see nothing wrong with posting about it. It's so pleasurable that I'd certainly be willing to compromise in an actual relationship, but want women to understand what really pleases me, so there is no misunderstanding. You never know if you might not meet a person who is very compatible. The chances are very small, but if you don't post, the chances are zero; and I do enjoy discussing things generally, and exploring these desires and people.

Lockit -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 9:23:18 AM)
Well since there are so few real submissive's and dominant's and you consider that you are real and valid and wish to not miscommuniate and since you already have decided how things must go for you... you are correct... you are unlikely to find what you seek. It's simply the odd's against you.

Andalusite -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 9:47:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tavane Although they are only fantasies, the realitiy is that when something turns you on in a fantasy, it will turn you on in real life. What is different about real life is that it's not just about your fantasies, but rather about what the other person also wants, and she is the one who is the mistress. Actually, that hasn't been my experience at all, and I've been only in kinky relationships during the past 13 years, face to face! There are lots of things that turn my crank to fantasise about, but which I have no interest in actually doing (or might hypothetically like, but that I have some concerns about), and lots of things that I enjoy actually doing, but which I don't fantasise about at all! Like many other submissives here who have a set ideal of what you want, and how you want your Domme to feel, you come across as very demanding, very objectifying, and wanting even more control than Dominants do!

MistressDolly -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 10:04:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tavane I am very submissive, but not into pain or bondage, or licking boots, etc. I just want to be a slave, and do everything for my mistress, including all household stuff, laundry, cooking, etc; and her nails and/or hair if hse wishes, and to be totally dependent on her financially, and to obey her always. Since I'm so submissive, I can't imagine getting pleasure out of having a slave, even though the lifestyle benefits are huge, and wonder if mistresses exist who do find adequate pleasure in that. Tavane There are those that serve with few limits. I define a service submissive the same way I define a slave or a submissive: one that finds fulfillment for themselves and reason for being while in service to another. It is that simple. Tit for tat service is something else, altogether. Mistress Dolly

ShaktiSama -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 10:49:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite Like many other submissives here who have a set ideal of what you want, and how you want your Domme to feel, you come across as very demanding, very objectifying, and wanting even more control than Dominants do! Sadly true. There are a lot of unpartnered submissives on this forum, and at the end of the day, the real obstacle to their success is within themselves. This is especially true of those who have formed lasting, passionate affairs with their preconceptions at the expense of all real possibilities. "My fantasy is to blah blah blah. Any woman who won't cater to this fantasy is not compatible with me. Not that I've EVER TRIED MY FANTASY IN REAL LIFE, but I just KNOW it is indispensable to my happiness and fulfillment in any relationship." "Pay to submit? Shit, these bitches should pay ME to beat this ass!" "Doesn't anyone want an old guy-young guy-married guy-manly man-girly man-pain piglet-humiliation sponge-bondage bitch-human toilet-fill in kink of choice?" "All dommes are old/greedy/professionals/Nigerians/looking for marriage/not looking for marriage/this/that/the other/excuses/excuses/excuses!" shakes her head Whatever. I was obviously very lucky to find someone who was even vaguely interested in me and what I want. Every one of these threads reminds me what a treasure my submissive really is, and how lucky I am to own such a wonderful boykin.

Tavane -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 11:39:46 AM)
I want what I want, and I'm not going to hide it. I don't expect a woman to give me everything I want, but if she'd not interesed in giving me some of what I want, then there is no point in having a relationship. I'll be happy to give her lots of what she enjoys, and she is the mistress, (and I'd enjoy the idea and reality that she runs the show), but if her idea of running the show includes nothing that I enjoy, then there is no point in having any relationship. That was the main focus of my post; whether doms exist who really enjoy service submissives as a main focus of a relationship. Apparently they are pretty rare, and I think I noted that when I originally posted. In such a realtiosnhip, the dom is actually the one who is passive, in many respects, since the sub does everything for her. I doubted that many doms would have much interest in that, and that seems to be the case.

Lockit -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 11:49:43 AM)
No, lawyer... that isn't the case. The case as I see it is that you don't understand d/s and how a dominant works, have unrealistic views you have determined are true and present yourself reasonably (isn't law and life always reasonable and doesn't it always work best to seem reasonable?) but demanding even for those of us (which is most of us) that know how to please our submissive's and wish to in some way. You then negate our experiences and real life situations with your take on things being whatever they are, from where ever they come from. Your argument lacks... reality. Of course no one will serve without something in it for themselves and we all know that there are two or more in a relationship and have desires that should be taken care of in some way. But one factoid you are missing is... that you say you want certain things and set the stage and don't approach this with an attitude of this is what I would like to some degree... but with specific requirement's and attitude on everything. If you can see past your take and listen... you might learn a thing or two and a dominant might see something they could work with. The way you are coming across... isn't going to work unless you do find a submissive who likes to be pampered your way and top only in the ways you demand.

Tavane -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 1:35:08 PM)
All I can do is post what I (think I would) enjoy. If a dom doesn't post what she enjoys, or would want in a service submsisive, then I have no idea.

Andalusite -> RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?" (2/11/2009 1:59:21 PM)
Tavane, what I want in a service-oriented submissive is someone who takes pleasure in making me happy, who takes the initiative to make my life easier, who I don't have to "get after" to make him do things. I like getting pampered, but on my schedule, not his. I'm open to some cross-dressing/feminisation, but that is their kink, not service, IMHO. I wouldn't want someone who was only service-oriented, I want an all-around relationship partner, and someone who enjoys at least some forms of kink that I also like. Shakti, it sounds like both of you are very fortunate to have found each other!

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