RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (Full Version)

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SilverMark -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 2:30:41 PM)

Firm, you do the best you can for the good of your home and the animals. You didn't seek them out as pets but, you still take responsibility for them as you can. No one should ask more from you nor should they expect more from you.
I have rarely agreed with you more (most of the time quite a bit less) and I respect your judgment for doing what you see as the "right thing".




kittinSol -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 2:31:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

How many men have a problem with neutering a strong, "masculine" dog of theirs? 



Sometimes, when I think of female cats being neutered, I feel a pang in my uterus and ovaries [&:] .




Emperor1956 -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 2:32:49 PM)

FR:  What do I think, Firmhand?   Well I am so glad you asked.

I think you are ignorant, selfish and ultimately in fact cruel to these dogs.  You are an animal abuser.   And your arrogance has you clothing it as something "humane".  

Let's parse this out.   You have read above the arguments (well made) of your ignorance in dumping the animal "in the wild".  You are simply pushing your problem on someone else.  I don't need to repeat those arguments.  However, you are also selfish,  in that you are choosing to salve your weak-minded conscience by claiming that you are being 'moral and respectful'.   In fact, you are shirking responsiblity and selecting out animals to suffer, with no regard for their future.  And you are cloaking your cowardice in your self-justification.  Why don't you simply sell the "excess animals" to a testing lab, or better yet, a dog fighting club?  Then you can be your badass macho self and make some money too!  The outcome for the animal -- likely misery -- is the same.

But worst of all, you are abusive.  No one else has focused on your oh-so-manly comment:  they were dangerous, or could not be trained to respect the physical integrity of the children, they were put down locally (usually with a 9 mm).  So, first, as one shooter to another, why a 9mm?  There is no reason to use a round that big, with that much muzzle velocity, to "put down" a dog and in fact it is very possible that the dog will not die a humane, painless death.  Bet you couldn't wait to kill something with your pistol.  But you had to make sure your admiring little chickadees who read your every word on CM knew you used a BIG MAN's gun, didn't you?

In fact, only a cruel person (or maybe a psychopath?) would shoot a dog to euthanize it.  Dogs survive head trauma amazingly well.  Can you swear that EVERY animal 'disposed of' this way died immediately?  I have worked in animal rescue for over 20 years and I have had "dead" dogs with head trauma wake up after being shot, clubbed or hit by a car.  They aren't at all healthy, but they aren't dead.  The only ethical and humane way to euthanize a dog is to use a drug cocktail administered intervenously, or to use a gas/decompression chamber.  But, hey, Firmhand, that would take all the fun out of it, wouldn't it?

Normally I ignore these posts.  But congratulations,  you have disgusted me into telling you exactly how I feel.  Now if you care to atone for your considerable wrongdoing, you'll make a sizeable donation to an AHSA-affiliated animal shelter in your area.  I'd say about $5000 would begin to erase the stain.  BEGIN to.  And THEN post the cancelled check, and maybe you could lecture us all on your morals?

E.

PS:  Kiyari, we do rescue here.  Current count is 3 dogs, 1 cat, 3 birds.   We do have one purebred, purchased cat (our last breeder-purchased animal before we decided that it was unnecessary to support animal breeding, although we both love purebreds).  Unfortunately there are now enough reckless "animal lovers" that even papered purebreds can be found in shelters and rescue societies. (and my profile is available on here...but oddly you need to type in 'Emperor'.  Dunno why, but CM never fixed it so I could have the same name in two places.)




kiyari -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 2:37:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Sometimes, when I think of female cats being neutered, I feel a pang in my uterus and ovaries [&:] .


Ooh, you nasty minx!

Males so define themselves by their balls n tackle. Seriously pathetic [IMO], really.




kiyari -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 2:49:16 PM)

Emperor1956:

I would have responded privately, but your Profile appears to be Hidden (as is mine).

I give you great kudos that you have done what you have for our domesticated beastlets.




Vendaval -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 3:10:13 PM)

kiyari -
 
I tried to send you a message on the other side too.




OrionTheWolf -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 3:20:17 PM)

~FR~

Cats are pretty good at making it on their own in the wild, but dogs have been domesticated to the extent that they are scavengers in the wild. In the area I live in, there are a few shelters but as has been pointed out, they are usually full. That leaves the animal control facilities that will keep the animal for a period of 7 to 30 days, then stick them in a block cement doghouse that has a lawn mower engine attached to it.

So what is the solution? I say the 9mm is preferable to being dumped and dying of starvation and disease.





corysub -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 3:22:13 PM)

That is a tough one. I love animals and don't remember a time we didn't have at least one dog..presently an 8 year of golden retriever.  Rather than just "dropping off" the poor guy/girl....couldn't you maybe find a school yard or playground area...leave some food and water...so that some youngsters might find him and he could adopt one of them?  

There is probably no danger to anyone from dogs being let loose unless they meet others and form packs.  In the Hamptons out on eastern Long Island..the Manhattan gentry who rent huge homes for the summer often buy dogs for the kiddies to play with during the summer.  Since they would never dream of taking the pooch back tot he apartment and possibly soil the oriental carpets...in September after labor day you can usually find well bred dogs just running around the farms and what's left of the wooded areas...sometimes putting youngsters into difficulty.  The Southampton Shelter used to be a great place for adoptions at that time of the year for anyone living close.  I live in Penna. now and haven't been up that way in awhile..but the point I rambled on about was..it could not be a good thing to let dogs roam free.




Vendaval -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 3:25:27 PM)

cory,
 
An animal left on school grounds like that will likely have a phone call to Animal Services and the pound as the next step.  Schools are very wary of liability and potential law suits regarding injuries to their charges.




MissMorrigan -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 3:31:51 PM)

Orion, would you kindly explain the 'lawn mower engine attached to it' comment regarding the block cement doghouse?




Aylee -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 3:43:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

But worst of all, you are abusive.  No one else has focused on your oh-so-manly comment:  they were dangerous, or could not be trained to respect the physical integrity of the children, they were put down locally (usually with a 9 mm).  So, first, as one shooter to another, why a 9mm?  There is no reason to use a round that big, with that much muzzle velocity, to "put down" a dog and in fact it is very possible that the dog will not die a humane, painless death.  Bet you couldn't wait to kill something with your pistol.  But you had to make sure your admiring little chickadees who read your every word on CM knew you used a BIG MAN's gun, didn't you?



Sorry for the hi-jack but a 9mm is NOT a "big-man's" gun.  That would be a .45.  A 9mm is similar to a .38 and is usually considered a "lady's" gun. 

Edited to add:

I do not agree with re-dumping the animals somewhere else.  I think it would be kinder to shoot them and bury them. 

I know that my grandfather used carbon-monoxcide on feral cats that they had on his property when I was child, but I am not sure how he had that rigged up.  If you dislike shooting them, perhaps gassing them would be easier on you? 




calamitysandra -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 3:45:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

Orion, would you kindly explain the 'lawn mower engine attached to it' comment regarding the block cement doghouse?



I guess this is about the exhaust fumes of the engine being funneled into the room, killing the animals.




corysub -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 3:47:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

cory,
 
An animal left on school grounds like that will likely have a phone call to Animal Services and the pound as the next step.  Schools are very wary of liability and potential law suits regarding injuries to their charges.


I didn't think about the legal stuff... good point.  Guess there is no easy answer to a question that involves so much emotion and caring.




SomethingCatchy -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 3:49:45 PM)

As an animal enthusiast, rescuer of various types of animals, and someone who has seen a dog get thrown out of a moving truck into the street right in front of me, I have to agree with everyone that you are a pathetic peice of shit for dumping animals.

I have never heard of feral dogs surviving on their own for more than a few months. Cats are very good at hunting small prey, and while I would hate to see a homeless cat there are countless feral colonies I have been in contact with that are thriving and healthy (all we do is give rabies shots and spay/neuters). Dogs are not hunters, they are scavengers. They are not equiped to deal with wildlife.

While I've never been in the position to have hundreds of strays dumped in my area over time, I know I would do the RIGHT THING and call animal control to pick them up. If they want to charge you, there should be a drop box or maybe you could just chain them to whatever fence is available if weather permits. One night alone, cold and hungry to be taken in, fed, and housed for a few weeks with the possibility of adoption or a painless death is a lot better than starving to death.




Vendaval -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 3:58:44 PM)

Regarding feral cats, there are a number of groups in this area who do a catch and release program at various locations.  As an example down near certain creeks, particular farms and even the univeristy campus which has large fields and an agricultural program so there are different feral cat colonies on the premises.
 
The animals are caught and taken to a vet to by neutered and spayed and released since there are simply not enough homes available.  Anyone on here can check in their local area for similar groups and donate time, money or dry and canned food since the volunteers pay for the feed out of their own pockets and charitable contributions.




YourhandMyAss -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 4:02:43 PM)

And what of the kid who's played with this dog all day and is now attached and their guardian, usualy mom or dad, say no way. Then you got a heart broken kid.

Dumping your animal, is just not responsible where ever you do it. It doesn't make it any better to put it in a pipulated area or by a school. In fact it's more likely to be run over in a busy area such as near a school.

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

That is a tough one. I love animals and don't remember a time we didn't have at least one dog..presently an 8 year of golden retriever.  Rather than just "dropping off" the poor guy/girl....couldn't you maybe find a school yard or playground area...leave some food and water...so that some youngsters might find him and he could adopt one of them?  






MissMorrigan -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 4:02:44 PM)

Oh bugger, I should have guessed [:(] Thank you for answering my query, Sandra.

I'm a bit lost here... what's the greater in price, a bullet or a local call to animal rescue/control? I'm presuming it's the former, so that really begs the question of why the former is the preferred way of dealing with the situation and why the OP when Firm knew of the kind of responses he was likely to receive. Emotional masochism.
quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
I guess this is about the exhaust fumes of the engine being funneled into the room, killing the animals.




aravain -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 4:07:21 PM)

Depending on the state, it's actually calling that will cost more money.

Even if you do it 'anonymously' they will try and find out who called, and then charge you for calling. Even if it's not YOUR animal, and you're calling because you are genuinely afraid of it... they'll make you pay.

That's been my experience with the government-based programs here :|

EDIT TO ADD:

And they take them directly to be euthanized. The only way to ensure an animal has a chance to be adopted is for YOU to catch it, and take it to a shelter.




YourhandMyAss -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 4:21:46 PM)

This is pure bullshit. I have volunteered at SPCA / animal control and I have seen animals brought in by animal control. They are not "Taken strait away  to be euthanized" They are checked out by the vet staff, put in holding for 5 to 7 days, so if any one wants to come looking for them can find them. Then they are given behavior evaluations if nobody shows up to claim them, then if they pass behavior eval they're put into the general population kennels and allowed to be adopted.


Edited because as Emperor pointed out if they're very sick or very injured, then yeah they won't be given a chance
quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

And they take them directly to be euthanized. The only way to ensure an animal has a chance to be adopted is for YOU to catch it, and take it to a shelter.





Emperor1956 -> RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... (2/21/2009 4:39:13 PM)

FR:

quote:

  YHMA:  This is pure bullshit. I have volunteered at SPCA / animal control and I have seen animals brought in by animal control. They are not "Taken strait away  to be euthanized" They are checked out by the vet staff, put in holding for 5 to 7 days, so if any one wants to come looking for them can find them. Then they are given behavior evaluations if nobody shows up to claim them, then if they pass behavior eval they're put into the general population kennels and allowed to be adopted.



quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

And they take them directly to be euthanized. The only way to ensure an animal has a chance to be adopted is for YOU to catch it, and take it to a shelter.




Well you are both a little bit right, tho YHMA is MORE correct (and my agreeing with her is a first in my memory!).  Animal shelters -- both privately run ones and licensed animal control facilities -- MUST keep a stray animal available for adoption for a minimum number of days (it varies between 7 and 30 depending on the State, in my experience)  UNLESS:

The animal has an infectious disease or parasites which poses a threat to other animals in the shelter OR  the animal is too injured or diseased to be "rehabilitated".  This last category is of course both subjective and wide-open.  Shelters I have worked with usually allow a trained animal worker (who may or may not be a certified vet tech or even a veterinarian) to make this decision.  Of course, factors in that decision may include the animal's age, the relative perceived attractiveness of the animal and whether there is room at the shelter.  It is pretty certain that no shelter would keep a car accident victim with multiple fractures alive very long.  Conversely, no shelter will put down an animal infected with ear mites, although technically that falls into the "infectious disease" category.

So yes, a badly injured/ill animal brought in to a shelter will be euthenized quickly as arvain says, but in fact MOST animals are fed, healed, groomed and loved with the hope that someone will take it home.

And that raises a question, although considering the dishonesty and flagrant stupidity of those who cheer on the OP for his "manly" stance I expect no honest answers:  How many of you put your money and lives where your big mouths are?  How many of you have adopted rescue animals?  How many of you have donated your money and/or your time to a shelter in the past...oh lets be generous...10 years?

I know a few on this thread have.  One has even rescued horses, which I find an act of kindness so amazing I almost weep when I think about (I am not a horse, fan...there I said it).  What about all of you?

E.




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