RE: The Captain Kirk's

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eyesopened -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 5:01:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Happy are they who know who they are, know what they are and who know their place on the wheel of life. To be a leader one doesn’t need to blow bugles and wave flags but they may oft lead by example. There is much in the past which is of value and worth much even though it may go against popular idioms or is too hard for the weak minded to follow through. Of course I speak of good manners, gracious demeanor (a velvet glove mistaken for weakness, hiding a steel fist). Better to how by example the benefits and worth of chivalry, courtesy and being known as honourable that shouting it from the roof tops where it will fall on deaf ears.. Your post spoke to me today. I have been thinking lately about the difference between dominating and leading. How a person can be dominant without the ability to lead and how at times a servant can lead. Not sure where I'm going with this in my mind and would never venture to start a thread but maybe someone else will?

RainydayNE -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 5:09:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Happy are they who know who they are, know what they are and who know their place on the wheel of life. To be a leader one doesn’t need to blow bugles and wave flags but they may oft lead by example. There is much in the past which is of value and worth much even though it may go against popular idioms or is too hard for the weak minded to follow through. Of course I speak of good manners, gracious demeanor (a velvet glove mistaken for weakness, hiding a steel fist). Better to how by example the benefits and worth of chivalry, courtesy and being known as honourable that shouting it from the roof tops where it will fall on deaf ears.. this is a very good post. i'm not sure i understand the purpose of this entire thread, but i think this post sums up the most respectful way to deal with feeling not-respected-enough, or to avoid feeling that way at all. i think people who tend to carry themselves this way earn respect from others even when they aren't directly looking for it (and usually they aren't, because that isn't really their concern.) if you're comfortable enough with who you are and your own accomplishments, whatever they may be, then that's what matters. other people aren't always going to pay you homage for being older than they are and going somewhere first, and i don't think it's necessarily required (or should even be expected) in all cases. but i think, at the end of the day, you have to know and respect YOURSELF, and what anybody else thinks is secondary at best.

MarsBonfire -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 5:44:27 AM)
LadyPact, Yes, I was there for Ammendment II. Yes, I remember it did pass. The real fight against it took place for THREE YEARS afterward, during the legal, constitutional court battle. God knows how many events I helped run during those three years, just to benefit the legal defense fund, and to keep the fight in the public eye. I know people who gave up good chunks of their lives and personal wealth, just to make sure that they could remain full citizens of Colorado, stop the spead of hate legislation like this throughout the US, and live in the state that they loved, without being considered a leagally sanctioned scapegoat. It was obviously a waste of time... Because, as you know, some of the people on this thread don't owe anyone anything. [8\|]

Lynnxz -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 5:46:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Happy are they who know who they are, know what they are and who know their place on the wheel of life. To be a leader one doesn’t need to blow bugles and wave flags but they may oft lead by example. There is much in the past which is of value and worth much even though it may go against popular idioms or is too hard for the weak minded to follow through. Of course I speak of good manners, gracious demeanor (a velvet glove mistaken for weakness, hiding a steel fist). Better to how by example the benefits and worth of chivalry, courtesy and being known as honourable that shouting it from the roof tops where it will fall on deaf ears.. Well said.

LadyPact -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 6:44:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire LadyPact, Yes, I was there for Ammendment II. Yes, I remember it did pass. The real fight against it took place for THREE YEARS afterward, during the legal, constitutional court battle. God knows how many events I helped run during those three years, just to benefit the legal defense fund, and to keep the fight in the public eye. I know people who gave up good chunks of their lives and personal wealth, just to make sure that they could remain full citizens of Colorado, stop the spead of hate legislation like this throughout the US, and live in the state that they loved, without being considered a leagally sanctioned scapegoat. It was obviously a waste of time... Because, as you know, some of the people on this thread don't owe anyone anything. [8\|] This post just brought back a lot of memories. Some of them good and some of them not so good. I remember what a lot of people thought they lost, and the little place that closed down because "those people" went there. I used to laugh at that bumper sticker that My first boy gave Me. It was one of those "Focus on your own damn family" ones. Seems to Me, a lot of the folks who did all that keeping the fight in the public eye took that little saying to heart.

crouchingtigress -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 7:54:19 AM)
I shared a moment with a brother at a Burning Man event I went to this weekend. We had a kink themed camp, and we used my leatherpride sarong as our flag. As we were packing and folding tarps and things we got to the flag, and folded it in 3 folds with out realising it, we looked at eachother (each of us have over 20 years in kink) and realised this was our flag, this flag represented us, and our tribe and most importantly, our leather brothers who had gone before and had died of AIDS. We began to fold the flag in triangles, solom and with reverance. So greatful for those that have gone before. And by the time we got to the end and tucked the last triangle we both collasped in each others arms in tears.

junecleaver -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 10:33:59 AM)
feydeplume, I didn't jump anyone's shit. I explained why I as a person from generation-y do not just revere a person because they did it first or because everyone else reveres them. My shit was then jump as my words were taken out of context. I replied to the poster who did this. I replied to you. Now, I'll reply once again to you both. You have the right to your opinions. I have the right to mine. In my opinion..."Not once have you noticed or commented on the fact that you get to post on a website like this because of us" ...this is the part I don't understand. Did you start CM? What part did you have in the making of this site? On a side note...It's a public message board. I post in the Ask a Master section...even though I'm not a Master. It's not uncommon. Ask yourself why you felt the need to belittle me by telling me people would kick my ass or insult me? I was in disagreement. It's not personal. I don't even know your name or the name of the other guy who essentially told me I only respect people who do me favors. Why did either of you feel the need to turn it into something personal? Like it has anything to do with his academic career or his medical career? I don't have disdain for "you" or for "us." I explained why I disagreed and saw no real reason to 'honor'. Your comments in the end paragraph do not convey the benefit of the doubt imo. I didn't mention any of those people (Midori, Jay Wisemen, etc), the other guy did. I didn't give my personal feelings on any of those people. I said the community respects them as they deserve to be respected. I don't know them so I'll refrain further from talking about what I think they may or may not do. I don't feel I hijacked this thread until others chose to take my disagreement as a personal vendetta against however they practice whatever they practice. I probably won't be replying again. Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand...I don't run a TNG group, though I am a member. I'm active when I'm actually in the country long enough to be. I've been living on another continent this year and working different jobs, etc. And...we're small and a little struggling and unfortunately with the nature of the group, you end up losing members you'd rather keep as they age out. Um...the only mishap I can think of is...we had a spanking bench brought to the location and reassembled...I was sitting on it when my (ex)Dom came over and sat beside me...in the middle of a demo. Very embarrassing. *EDIT: the bench fell apart...is what I meant to put...not that it was embarrassing to have him sitting beside. LOL CreativeDominant, Place my original words within the context of BDSM. Whatever you are talking about right now has almost nothing to do with what I originally said. 'You can disagree without being respectful.' That is the attitude with which I come to the table... I'm not seeing where that is negative. I probably won't.

domiguy -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 10:42:43 AM)
This is a complete load of crap. ....Look at him/her... I think he is into that sado..Bdsm fucked up shit!...We shouldn't hire him or her. They shouldn't be allowed to get married or have children. We should round them up and jail them. Those Bdsm'ers are some fucked up people. Kill them all! They shouldn't be allowed to worship or dine with us. Seperate transportation would be ideal. Those motherfuckers! It would be nice if they didn't live in this neighborhood. They smell funny.

Jeptha -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 11:11:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Happy are they who know who they are, know what they are and who know their place on the wheel of life. To be a leader one doesn’t need to blow bugles and wave flags but they may oft lead by example. There is much in the past which is of value and worth much even though it may go against popular idioms or is too hard for the weak minded to follow through. Of course I speak of good manners, gracious demeanor (a velvet glove mistaken for weakness, hiding a steel fist). Better to how by example the benefits and worth of chivalry, courtesy and being known as honourable that shouting it from the roof tops where it will fall on deaf ears.. Noble sentiments, IronBear; but, you know what? Nothing wrong with a little PR now and then, too. For example, I used to think it was enough to show up and do your job and go home, and not "sound a trumpet before thy works"... but later I figured out that so many people spent time posturing and politicking that if you just spent time doing work, the boss actually wouldn't be able to see you. I mean that literally; the one who is noticed is the one engaged with - the one standing there talking about work, not the one who only performs work. (edit to add: can you tell I've worked for the government?) I've learned since then that it's important to have communication going on more or less constantly - even if it's only about the most basic aspects of the job that one would think wouldn't require much comment. Maybe because it gives people a chance to engage, rather than simply witness as an audience member would, or something. I've used the example of work, but I think this could apply to other interests and points of view as well. I think you do a good job of representing in this sense, by the way.

feydeplume -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 11:31:35 AM)
"I'm still a Captain Kirk. I'm proud to be one. I still remember answering ads in the Blue Oyster, rather than logging on. I was part of the old days and the old ways. I'm out numbered, it seems. Where are the rest of you? " This was a sort of call for companionship and escapism from the craziness (from a point of view) that is populating this site and, as she said, the life in general. BDSM is just ONE of the things where we boldly went where no one had gone before. Our professions, our marriages, hell our church work, our companies, whatever, We did a la Sinatra. It was not a "please come in and share your views about just how totally out of date we really are". Hell the metaphor in use (i am guessing) was a subtle hint that this was not for the TNG "crew". so a few of us ran with the joke. Then a few TNG or "but there IS no life(style) just the way i live my life" decided to post. "I'm sure that in thirty years TNGers will write a post similar to this. How we paved the way for the older generation to accept us, only to become the older generation, how we rallied to make groups +18 instead of +21 and now the new TNGers don't respect us the way they should because...blah blah blah." Really look at your words in context to the thread. Did you add anything to this glorydayz virtual munch? Where you there? Are you a Captain Kirk of your generation? YOU brought up respect. YOU brought up some supposed disdain for the TNG. YOU dismissed our little word/concept game by making it about how you plant to be bitter in 30 years, implying that we are, rather than, as we were stating, damned proud of where we have been and where we are going. A couple people tried to smooth the waters and let the WTF go so we could get back to the fun and silliness of shore leave and red shirts. I even said "If you want to respect us for all or anything that we have done, great. if not fine. But please take to heart one bit of advice that was given to us and that we pass on as often as we can; Have fun, do it because you love it and it seems like a good idea and fills your heart and mind. LIVE don't just exist". Humor doesn't always carry over, and frankly my humor wasn't meant to make YOU laugh, but maybe bring a giggle to the rest. I even said nice things about the TNG and how we could take pride in them and where they were heading Even the ever fabulous LadyPact jumped in to pacify the people that wanted to freak out that THEY weren't the most important most right most whatever. "Seriously, folks. I started this as a bullshit thread. I wanted to find a way to provoke a discussion about past, present, and future, and it was the only way I could think of that hadn't been rehashed." But YOU wouldn't let it go and just let us get on with having some fun. I know other on this thread have hit the ignore button about you and i think that is sad, since you have said some very lucid things in other threads. And now you have personally widened the gap between the "generations". Hell, if it weren't for people like you, there wouldn't BE generations. I guess my point, if i have one, is get the fuck over yourself. EVERY word that goes up here isn't about you and doesn't need your two cents. Congrats for ignoring all the dinosaurs that tried to make space for you, that tried to give justification for your crappy attitude, and tried to find reasons and ways to respect YOU. You, in the end, proved your point; that just because someone fancies themselves into BDSM doesn't mean they deserve any respect. OH! and what did i have to do with the making of CM? Well let's see; I helped set up the net porn convention at which the idea was floated, pretty sure i did jello shots with the makers (could be totally wrong there, as i did shots with ALOT of people during those conventions) and would give them room on my servers if they needed it when they had a dispute with their hosting, just as i have done for other sites. Oh yeah and i helped make some of those porn sites from way back when. I don't need or what your respect. I want my friends to do what they want to do for a living and have a ball doing it.

feydeplume -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 11:32:44 AM)
<--- still wants to be a green skinned alien

agirl -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 12:14:36 PM)
You're right. Some people don't owe anyone anything in the things you mentioned. I certainly KNOW who I owe and it's not people I've never met or people who fought for something I didn't ask for and knew fuck-all about. They weren't fighting for me, personally, anymore than anything that I stand up for, means I'm fighting for you, or anyone else. If I make a stand of any sort it's because I WANT to.......because it's something I believe in and because I want to do so. I can appreciate people's efforts without feeling any sense of debt whatsoever, especially on the bdsm front. All around me in life there are people doing amazing things that impact on the people around them.....good things, unselfish things, kind and thoughtful things , acts of duty, acts of real care that have great cost to themselves....but I still owe them nothing. agirl

LaTigresse -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 12:46:08 PM)
Soooooo, instead of NOT making it all about someone that doesn't agree..........the grown up thing to do is to continue stirring the shit pot.... I get it now.

junecleaver -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 1:17:42 PM)
I really don't have time to organize this so...sorry if it doesn't make sense... Should I not respond to someone who replied to me and quoted my words (in regards to my second post)? I don't feel I brought up respect as LP asked if the kirks would be honored or not. I don't understand why you are so offended. You've given a valid reason of why you deserve some honor for your work with early porn. LP and another poster talked about some things that seemed relevant too in CO. Is everyone claiming honor worthy of such? No and that was the crux of my point which I apparently did not make clear. You need to be respectable to get oodles of respect from me. TNG, dinosaur, big blob...whatever. Generational differences always have and always will exist. People 'like me' have little to do with it. What I would hope is that we can respect each other as the human beings that we are no matter how many years we may have. I haven't widened the gap or shortened the gap. The gap is just a normal part of how we are socialized. I don't ignore dinosaurs...or anyone really. I feel that my truth calls to me and that I can find that truth in anyone's mouth. The OP especially has made some posts in the past that I really respected and took to heart especially about distances in D/s relationships. You too, actually...your posts about TPE not being a burden to your master really made me think. But the respect has to do with what's been said not time spent in the scene. Hopefully that makes sense. If anyone personally feels disrespected because I want to know why they are worthy...I don't know what to do about that because I am not one to follow blindly. Your attitude towards TNG was the reason I felt you would not be offended when I stated you were still young enough to be a member. It was a failed attempt at trying to be friendly to a self-proclaimed dinosaur and I'm very sorry it was taken that way. A message board is..I would think?...meant to exchange opinions and information. I have never thought of the fora as anything more or less. And I find the advice you gave in your first post about doing the things you love to fill yourself to be very valuable. I'm trying to live my life with this in mind as I balance, work, school, and all the other various components of 'me.'

MarcEsadrian -> RE: The Captain Kirk's (2/27/2009 9:57:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Are those of us who explored this world seen the end of an era? Are we dinosaurs? Has our time come to an end? In some ways, I think so. BDSM, fetish, kink, et cetera has become so pervasive and overexposed as the stuff of "alternative lifestyles" that it has all reached a sort of campy acceptance in the collective conscience of society. I'm fully aware I'm a bit cynical on the subject, but I do think some of that cynicism is justifiable, considering the hipness these "alt" ideas have gained. I just avoid the esoteric short-hand and special watchwords altogether when speaking of what I practice. For me, it's not about theatrics, sexual expression or lifestyle activism. It's about the psychological aspects of influence, control, discipline, authority, servitude and so on. Abscond the t-shirts and you don't need to be trapped in time. I'd say don't see it as something recently invented and explored; see it as something very, very old, for in reality, it really is. Marc has expressed my point of view perfectly. I don't subscribe to the whole "lifestyle" idea. I live my life, that's my style. What I do at home, behind closed doors, with people I care about, is my business. How I structure my relationships is my business. Mine and the people involved in my life. I've never been one to need any sort of public acceptance or want a public display. It isn't my style. I've got nothing to prove. As far as giving any kudos....I guess I don't really. Human beings are constantly evolving. Sometimes it's for the better, sometimes it isn't. It seems natural that sexuality and all that it entails would also evolve. Yes, I know that there are people that worked very hard and sacrificed to make something more acceptable. Yet, I wonder, is there always a need to make it acceptable for public consumption. Sometimes, somethings, yes......but not always. I don't want to walk down a street in leather chaps with my ass hanging out, a couple of naked slaves on leashes in one hand, a whip in another, and get "you go girl"s from all passersby. I also don't want to see it. It's personal, private, relationship stuff. Thank you for the kudos, LaTigresse. I'll say in turn your last paragraph not only strikes the right note, but is sadly hilarious, too.

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