RE: Reality or fantasy?

RE: Reality or fantasy? (Full Version)

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Rover -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 1:06:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: Rover Marie, the exit door is always there, within sight. Even if you choose to ignore it. Same thing can be done with 800 lb. gorillas. John Out here there are far too many that would expalin the gorilla "off" as being merely a butt plug. Indeed, many would do just that. But they also have an anus that will accomodate that size gorilla. John

agirl -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 1:20:14 PM)
As LaTigresse said above.... It doesn't matter to me in the least what any consensus might conclude. No-one is watching my relationship, no-one lives it apart from Freedom and I and it really isn't important what it's seen as, or what it's called. We simply do not care and never have. agirl

marie2 -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 2:20:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover Marie, the exit door is always there, within sight. Even if you choose to ignore it. Same thing can be done with 800 lb. gorillas. John You should never ignore your submissive, John.

InTonguesslut -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 2:29:51 PM)
quote: have no where said that others don't have the right to live as they wish. I question whether someone can determine another's reality and give examples such as religion which are based on what some might call fantasy as we can't prove its existence. They are entitled to hold an opinion on anothers reality. quote: But if you are committed to certain ideals and philosophies and live your life by them, then they are real. Which in turn may make others ideals and philosophies fantasies to you in your opinion. quote: Just as a slave who uses the exit door is no longer enslaved. Can it and does it happen? Sure. But not too often. For someone who is committed to their ideals it is a very extreme and serious decision to turn one's back on it all, and usually quite unthinkable. There is a new thread every day about a slave walking away from their master. I don't think it is the rarety you are claiming.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 2:34:25 PM)
I agree that the rarity is the slave that is so internally enslaved that the choice to leave is not there. Many that do not practice, nor have experienced internal enslavement truly understand it. I thought I did long ago, but until it occured and I mastered a slave to that extent, I did not truly understand it. I do not demand that others accept or understand it. I look at it like this. If a couple were to act married to those around them, in all ways that a married couple would, then the people observing or hearing about them would say they are married. If one person found out that they had never gotten a license or had a ceremony, then would they still be married? Who cares what others think. They can keep their own perceptions, which may or may not be truth.

Rover -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 2:38:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 quote: ORIGINAL: Rover Marie, the exit door is always there, within sight. Even if you choose to ignore it. Same thing can be done with 800 lb. gorillas. John You should never ignore your submissive, John. We have our fingers crossed that the electrolysis will be effective this time around, Marie. Donations for the extensive work are gratefully accepted. John

Rover -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 2:40:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I agree that the rarity is the slave that is so internally enslaved that the choice to leave is not there. Many that do not practice, nor have experienced internal enslavement truly understand it. I thought I did long ago, but until it occured and I mastered a slave to that extent, I did not truly understand it. I do not demand that others accept or understand it. How did she manage to keep herself together when that relationship came to a conclusion? Or did she realize that she really could live without you? John

marie2 -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 2:41:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I agree that the rarity is the slave that is so internally enslaved that the choice to leave is not there. Many that do not practice, nor have experienced internal enslavement truly understand it. Marriage.

InTonguesslut -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 2:43:24 PM)
quote: I agree that the rarity is the slave that is so internally enslaved that the choice to leave is not there. Many that do not practice, nor have experienced internal enslavement truly understand it. I thought I did long ago, but until it occured and I mastered a slave to that extent, I did not truly understand it. I do not demand that others accept or understand it. I can see what you are saying and understand it, believe me. However the choice to leave is always there whether we take it or not. quote: Who cares what others think. They can keep their own perceptions, which may or may not be truth. As threads like this show many people care what others think. Also when posting you open yourself up to what others think of what you have said, you lay yourself wide open for their opinion. Theirs perceptions, right or wrong are just as valid as anyones and just as true for them. It's how you handle other peoples opinions, perceptions when faced with them that is the point. Can you (generic) accept they have their own vision, perception, truth or will you (generic) blast them and become defensive, defending your way as the one and true way?

domiguy -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 2:56:17 PM)
Most slaves when "forced" with leaving their one twue master do the only noble thing left and perform the sacred act of Hari kari or sepuku. Traditionally the sub would fall upon Cronus' sickle, Hrunting, the magical sword of Beowulf or The sword of Peleus. Poor slaves. So lost when left alone to their own devices. Is there a charity to help these types?

InTonguesslut -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 3:00:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Most slaves when "forced" with leaving their one twue master do the only noble thing left and perform the sacred act of Hari kari or sepuku. Traditionally the sub would fall upon Cronus' sickle, Hrunting, the magical sword of Beowulf or The sword of Peleus. Poor slaves. So lost when left alone to their own devices. Is there a charity to help these types? There fucking should be lol. I really need to brush up my reading of the slave handbook, i missed all this hari kari, sickle, sword, beowolf shit [;)]

AnnaOfAramis -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 3:38:14 PM)
quote: They are entitled to hold an opinion on anothers reality. I didn't say they couldn't have an opinion, I questioned whether we can determine someone else's reality. Isn't someone's reality what they make it and what they experience? quote: Which in turn may make others ideals and philosophies fantasies to you in your opinion. No, I explicitly said several times that people have different ideals and philosophies that are real to them. No where have I implied that I don't find someone else's way of doing things valid. quote: There is a new thread every day about a slave walking away from their master. I don't think it is the rarety you are claiming. Perhaps you are right, but we may be talking about different experiences of enslavement. As we have seen, it means different things to different people. Also, my last comment "For someone who is committed to their ideals it is a very extreme and serious decision to turn one's back on it all, and usually quite unthinkable" was not referring only to slaves but to people committed to things in general- like the Orthodox Jews example I gave, or similar things which are such a part of people's lives, that leaving it is next to impossible because it is part of them and how they live and think. Sorry if I was unclear there, because I put it in with the sentence talking about slaves which made it sound like that was all I was referring to.

kidwithknife -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 3:44:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis So, can we draw any kind of consensus or conclusion from this or come up with some productive analysis? A definition that can include everyone’s outlook? "Nothing is true. Everything is permissible".

AnnaOfAramis -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 3:57:15 PM)
Hi agirl, No, it doesn't matter to me really either. But I thought it would be good to bring things back to the topic in a constructive way... see if there is something we can agree on. Rather than continue finding where we disagree. Just trying to bring a little harmony around here <smiles> Be well, anna

IrishMist -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 4:08:14 PM)
quote: call it cookieeatingfuckbuddies LMAO That has my vote [8D]

marie2 -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 4:09:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis I questioned whether we can determine someone else's reality. Isn't someone's reality what they make it and what they experience? To an extent. But if the basis of reality is "whatever someone makes of it and experiences", then anyone (even people with delusions) can be anything. For me, there has to be some criteria that causes me see a pilot as a pilot, a kitten as a kitten, a slave as a slave. If the criteria to being anything is "That's how I see myself, therefore I am", we're in trouble.

Rover -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 4:10:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 quote: ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis I questioned whether we can determine someone else's reality. Isn't someone's reality what they make it and what they experience? To an extent. But if the basis of reality is "whatever someone makes of it and experiences", then anyone (even people with delusions) can be anything. For me, there has to be some criteria that causes me see a pilot as a pilot, a kitten as a kitten, a slave as a slave. If the criteria to being anything is "That's how I see myself, therefore I am", we're in trouble. Reality is still constrained by the possible. John

IrishMist -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 4:16:49 PM)
~FR~ I find it so...amusing...that people spend so much time worrying about what others think, worrying about *who and what* other people are; seriously people..does it really matter in the long run if a stranger does not see you as a slave or a submissive or a dominant? Is it going to destroy your life if they refuse to accept your own ideas, thoughts, opinions, and definitions? I stopped caring about what people said about me when I was 13. To this day, I still don't care. I know who I am. I know what I am. I accept who and what I am. I have the only opinion that matters when it comes to me and my life. Everyone else is just background noise. [:D]

marie2 -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 4:24:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 quote: ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis I questioned whether we can determine someone else's reality. Isn't someone's reality what they make it and what they experience? To an extent. But if the basis of reality is "whatever someone makes of it and experiences", then anyone (even people with delusions) can be anything. For me, there has to be some criteria that causes me see a pilot as a pilot, a kitten as a kitten, a slave as a slave. If the criteria to being anything is "That's how I see myself, therefore I am", we're in trouble. Reality is still constrained by the possible. John Then I guess it becomes a question of: "Is blank possible?". But depending on what the "blank" is, there can be a lot of gray. Maybe kitten wasn't the best example. Meow.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Reality or fantasy? (4/3/2009 4:40:51 PM)
It has not been concluded. She thought she could at one point early on, and returned begging and crying. An incident several months back had her sitting at the door crying because she realized she did not have permission to leave. Once her emotional episode passed, communication was able to resume and problem was settled. She realized that she was miserable, stressed, and depressed without my mastery. Similar things occur in different types of relationships, it is not unique to M/s. The process of internal enslavement is an ongoing one, and if it suffers from either point then the bond will suffer and possibly break, but while it is strong there is an enormous amount of control over the person. The wrong owner and it becomes detrimental and probably criminal. If handled properly it becomes complete and utter surrender, as well as total responsibility for another. quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I agree that the rarity is the slave that is so internally enslaved that the choice to leave is not there. Many that do not practice, nor have experienced internal enslavement truly understand it. I thought I did long ago, but until it occured and I mastered a slave to that extent, I did not truly understand it. I do not demand that others accept or understand it. How did she manage to keep herself together when that relationship came to a conclusion? Or did she realize that she really could live without you? John

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