Barack Obama made an impassioned plea to America’s allies to send more troops to Afghanistan, warning that failure to do so would leave Europe vulnerable to more terrorist atrocities.

But though he continued to dazzle Europeans on his debut international tour, the Continent’s leaders turned their backs on the US President.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
An executive who talks almost incoherently at times?  Had that the last Administration.  Seem to have it in this Administration:

The question that flummoxed the great orator

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Would hate to see what a non Obama bashing op would look like.
 
The biggest change is the tone.
 
No more rendition, no more cuban holiday camps, the realisation that war fought against sporadic groups can't be done solely via military options.
 
No you are right nothing at all has change in this short space of time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Would hate to see what a non Obama bashing op would look like.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

The biggest change is the tone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
 
No more rendition, no more cuban holiday camps, the realisation that war fought against sporadic groups can't be done solely via military options.
 
No you are right nothing at all has change in this short space of time.

Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool

Well, it's kinda still open ya know.  As well .... Secret List of U.S. Military Bases to Replace Gitmo.

Like invading Pakistan? Like increasing our Afghanistan troop levels?  Like asking Europe for more soldiers to assist us?

No, the previous Administration never did anything but use force, either?  You wanna Google that, maybe?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

We're out of Iraq in 15 months. Only slightly longer than promised.    which was already underway under GWB

The tax rate on the wealthiset of Americans is going up, while I, earning under $50k a year, am now getting an extra $40 bucks a paycheck. Dont spend it all in one place..in fact you better save it, because when jobs disappear because investment dries up you just may need it.

Stem cell research is back. It never went anywhere

Gitmo is being closed.    its being relocated, if that

Torture is now banned, as it alwasy should have been, according to the Constitution. it was banned before, it just depends on your definition of torture

Money is being put back into infrastructure, instead of Halliburton. Maybe we won't have more bridges falling down.  Dont count on it

Our ability to work with the EU and other countries is being restored. If by "work with" you mean kowtow and give up US soverignty youre right..that is one change that is evolving

Although it hasn't happened yet, there is a storong chance that balance will be restored to the Supreme Court. If by "balance" you mean reinterpretation of the Constitution to fit better modern European socialism you may have a second one right

The American auto industry is getting a swift kick in it's balls, and will soon be in the hands of CEOs who will listen to the fucking market demands. Whether it is or isnt, Washington won't be the place that made it happen

The days of "predatory lending and investing are over... or will be over soon. Within a short time, the market will be restored... like a great ship having the barnacles scraped from it's hull. As long as Chris Dodd,Barney Frank, Franklin Raines and Tim Geithner are around, dont expect anything to happen.

And personally, I LIKE having a President that I can be proud of. One that can string two sentances together. Who can go to an EU conference and NOT yell across the room at the Spanish representative: "Hey! Amigo! Que Pasa?" or try to give the chancellor of Germany a backrub. Or be caught on camera saying things like "Well, if fucking Hezbolla would just stop it with this shit...." One that can ride a SegWay without falling on his ass (which is supposed to be almost impossible to do). One that won't sit on his ass for 7 minutes while the country is being attacked, or a city is drowning. One that isn't an ex-coke head, drunkard, member of the Skull and Bones. One that in all likelihood isn't going to take us to war without a fucking good reason, or to a war based on a lie about yellowcake urainium from Niger. One that won't "out" a CIA operative as punishment for their husband whistleblowing on that lie. One that doesn't swiftboat 12 years olds and their families because they spoke up about how a government program helped them through a near disaster. One that doesn't suck up to the religious right with a bottle of Scope and a pair of kneepads. One that doesn't give away a budget surplus, then ram the country into debt with China, all to grease the palms of his fat cat buddies, and  to finance his little Iraq Adventure. This is too childish a rant to even respond to.

I like having a REAL President, thanks. Not some half assed cartoon of one played by a guy from New Engalnd who just likes faking a TX accent. yes, the person sitting there has change and we will be far worse off for it.

I'm sorry you don't see the change. I guess the next four to eight years is really, really gonna be difficult for you, as you watch the US and the world recover and prosper under this new administration.  Save your $40s my friend, if the Dems don't lose seatsin 2010 and the Presidency in 2012 youre in for at least 15 years of one economic crisis after another. Carter and Ford years will look like walks in the park

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      To your question, the 'change' is from one set of idiots who thought they had it all figured out, to another.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    (I think we missed you in Vegas.  Damn.  We even wandered through Paris one night.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


I reiterate:

Please ... leave your partisan bickering at home ... I know that Bush was Hitler, and Obama is "the One" ... but I'm more interested in discussing whether or not there really can be any substantive differences in the path that we seem to going as a society, and as a government.

And whether or not it's a path we really want to travel.

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


I reiterate:

Please ... leave your partisan bickering at home ... I know that Bush was Hitler, and Obama is "the One" ... but I'm more interested in discussing whether or not there really can be any substantive differences in the path that we seem to going as a society, and as a government.

And whether or not it's a path we really want to travel.

Firm

No. (to both of your questions) </thread> 

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

We're out of Iraq in 15 months. Only slightly longer than promised.

quote:

The tax rate on the wealthiset of Americans is going up, while I, earning under $50k a year, am now getting an extra $40 bucks a paycheck

quote:

Stem cell research is back.

quote:

Gitmo is being closed.

quote:

Torture is now banned, as it alwasy should have been, according to the Constitution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

We're out of Iraq in 15 months. Only slightly longer than promised.    which was already underway under GWB

The tax rate on the wealthiset of Americans is going up, while I, earning under $50k a year, am now getting an extra $40 bucks a paycheck. Dont spend it all in one place..in fact you better save it, because when jobs disappear because investment dries up you just may need it.

Stem cell research is back. It never went anywhere

Gitmo is being closed.    its being relocated, if that

Torture is now banned, as it alwasy should have been, according to the Constitution. it was banned before, it just depends on your definition of torture

Money is being put back into infrastructure, instead of Halliburton. Maybe we won't have more bridges falling down.  Dont count on it

Our ability to work with the EU and other countries is being restored. If by "work with" you mean kowtow and give up US soverignty youre right..that is one change that is evolving

Although it hasn't happened yet, there is a storong chance that balance will be restored to the Supreme Court. If by "balance" you mean reinterpretation of the Constitution to fit better modern European socialism you may have a second one right

The American auto industry is getting a swift kick in it's balls, and will soon be in the hands of CEOs who will listen to the fucking market demands. Whether it is or isnt, Washington won't be the place that made it happen

The days of "predatory lending and investing are over... or will be over soon. Within a short time, the market will be restored... like a great ship having the barnacles scraped from it's hull. As long as Chris Dodd,Barney Frank, Franklin Raines and Tim Geithner are around, dont expect anything to happen.

And personally, I LIKE having a President that I can be proud of. One that can string two sentances together. Who can go to an EU conference and NOT yell across the room at the Spanish representative: "Hey! Amigo! Que Pasa?" or try to give the chancellor of Germany a backrub. Or be caught on camera saying things like "Well, if fucking Hezbolla would just stop it with this shit...." One that can ride a SegWay without falling on his ass (which is supposed to be almost impossible to do). One that won't sit on his ass for 7 minutes while the country is being attacked, or a city is drowning. One that isn't an ex-coke head, drunkard, member of the Skull and Bones. One that in all likelihood isn't going to take us to war without a fucking good reason, or to a war based on a lie about yellowcake urainium from Niger. One that won't "out" a CIA operative as punishment for their husband whistleblowing on that lie. One that doesn't swiftboat 12 years olds and their families because they spoke up about how a government program helped them through a near disaster. One that doesn't suck up to the religious right with a bottle of Scope and a pair of kneepads. One that doesn't give away a budget surplus, then ram the country into debt with China, all to grease the palms of his fat cat buddies, and  to finance his little Iraq Adventure. This is too childish a rant to even respond to.

I like having a REAL President, thanks. Not some half assed cartoon of one played by a guy from New Engalnd who just likes faking a TX accent. yes, the person sitting there has change and we will be far worse off for it.

I'm sorry you don't see the change. I guess the next four to eight years is really, really gonna be difficult for you, as you watch the US and the world recover and prosper under this new administration.  Save your $40s my friend, if the Dems don't lose seatsin 2010 and the Presidency in 2012 youre in for at least 15 years of one economic crisis after another. Carter and Ford years will look like walks in the park

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

.....substantive change does not necessarily imply blatant or unsubtle change. Nor does it have to be quick.

A change of tone in diplomatic signals is actually quite a substantive thing. Diplomacy and foreign policy is a subtle art, Obama appears to understand that.......medium/long term i think it'll make a huge difference.