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samboct -> RE: Should medics who helped torture be sanctioned by med.community? (4/10/2009 11:56:59 AM)
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"Are you saying that we should accord those Muslim terrorists the right to pursue their own happiness... even if it entails pursuing the utter destruction of others whom they don't believe have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?"
Treasure-
There's a far more profound translation of those words which imply that all of us are equal under the law and under the eyes of a supposed creator. Over time, what we've learned is that excluding others on the basis of their race, gender, religion or sexual orientation is a mistake and that if we view others as having the same rights as ourselves, we set a worthy example to the rest of the world. It's a challenge- it's not easy, and it does require courage. Human beings have an innate desire to exclude others unlike themselves from their tribe, but these words show that this base instinct should be overcome- same as urge to murder.
In terms of the specific group at hand- let's make a few distinctions, shall we?
1) Are Muslims not covered by this declaration?
2) Are Muslims which believe that their religion is the only way to salvation not covered by this declaration?
3) Are Muslims which chant death to Satan and America not covered by this declaration?
4) Are Muslims who plot terrorist actions and carry them out covered by this declaration?
I suspect most people are going to draw the line at #4. I will not. One of the most important lessons of warfare is to acknowledge the humanity of your opponent. If you do not do so, you will never be able to accept your former enemy as your ally. I will point out that some of our staunchest allies in the world today are Germany and Japan, yet 3 generations ago, we were locked in mortal combat. Relations with Viet Nam, our putative victors, are regaining a sense of normalcy.
Assuming that we are in a war with a chunk of the Muslim world (I do not agree with this premise- I think the religion has been hijacked by a handful of criminals, but the same could be said for Nazi Germany, so I'll acknowledge your viewpoint here.) failing to treat these people with the respect suggested by the Declaration of Independence has only stiffened their resolve and aided their recruitment efforts. We are in a battle of hearts and minds- and we're losing. This is not a war of geography or military conquest, it is a war of ideas and ideals. Our ideals as espoused by the Declaration of Independence have the support of the free world- our criminal actions of the past administration do not.
Does this mean that I'm espousing lying down and baring our throats to these terrorists? Absolutely not. They are criminals and should be put in jail- and there is nothing in the Declaration of Independence that says that criminals should not be punished appropriately. Indeed, since the actions of criminals deprive the rest of us of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, criminals should be pursued vigorously. But we cannot punish the innocent as well-that's the hallmark of a totalitarian state where security is the overiding concern.
Sam (who's worried he's sounding rather pompous here, but is tired of having the moral high ground hijacked by supposed "patriots".)
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