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American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates.... - 4/8/2009 3:02:37 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

NAIROBI, Kenya – The American crew of a hijacked U.S.-flagged ship retook control of the vessel from Somali pirates Wednesday but the captain was still being held hostage in a lifeboat, according to crew members.
U.S. officials said an American warship and a half dozen other ships were headed to the scene.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy

Now this makes me proud to be an American. Every other ship these assholes take doesn't get released without a military assault or by paying the pirates a huge ransom. But the first time they take a ship with Americans on board, the Americans fight the bastards and retake the ship. I do hope they get their captain back safe and sound.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 4/8/2009 3:03:27 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/8/2009 3:22:18 PM

popeye1250

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It's pretty simple, those ships need to be armed.
A couple of .50 cal machine guns can stop a situation like this from developing in the first place.

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/8/2009 4:18:58 PM

slaveboyforyou

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I agree popeye. I'm not at all familiar with maritime law, so I don't know if merchant ships are allowed to dock in all their ports with arms aboard. It seems to me that we could work out a treaty with other countries to get that done. Considering that these fuckers target everyone's ships, I don't see why there would be a fuss about it.

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/8/2009 4:36:42 PM

Greyslade

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Apology in advance if I seem teachy, or still worse, preachy, but this is sort of what I do, so cue lecture mode.

Commercial maritime shipping vessels are not armed, and are unlikely to be armed in the near future. By "armed", I mean everything from aforementioned .50 cal machine guns to handguns.

Why? Insurance. Shipping companies pay HUGE insurance. They insure vessels, cargos, contracts, crew, equipment, and more. Currently, insurance companies generally don't handle or charge huge premiums for dealing with armed vessels. Ergo, ships are unarmed.

Thus, we get ships paying fees of $150,000+ for protection by nonlethal devices (usually sonic in nature) or protection by other armed vessels (such as the USS MacArthur owned by the now-renamed Blackwater company [Xi or something these days]). To many of these companies, having a ship siezed for ransom now and them is cheaper than raising insurance premiums by arming their vessels.

To my knowledge, the Law of the Sea Convention (pretty much the starting point when discussing international maritime law) does not restrict the transport of weaponry by vessels, only engaging in certain behaviors with it.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/8/2009 6:56:44 PM

TheHeretic

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It's hard to draw any conclusions from thr fragments of information coming out, but I have to wonder if they knew they were taking a US flagged ship. That might be the card the crew played to regain control. We have a bit of history with pirates on that continent.

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/8/2009 7:06:30 PM

servantforuse

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The last report I heard is that the captain of the ship might still be held by the pirates. Once they free him throw the pirates off the boat and shoot them in the water..

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/8/2009 8:41:15 PM

Vendaval

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Any word on whether the pirates are demanding ransom for the captain?

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/8/2009 8:45:02 PM

TheHeretic

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More likely, Ven, they are trying to figure out how to trade him for a safe trip home. At least that is how I hope this is being played.

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/8/2009 8:45:26 PM

Greyslade

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It's hard to draw any conclusions from thr fragments of information coming out, but I have to wonder if they knew they were taking a US flagged ship. That might be the card the crew played to regain control. We have a bit of history with pirates on that continent.

They knew. They have access to the technology you'd expect: the internet, GPS data, and so forth. These guys aren't cruising around randomly, as far as my research indicates; they have at least a vague idea of what they're going after.

More worrisome is that despite the greatly increased naval presence in the Gulf of Aden, pirate attacks remain higher than in any year but 2008, and not far below that level. These people aren't easily scared.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/8/2009 9:31:15 PM

MasterShake69

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they should spend a little more fuel and sail a bit further away from the coast or set traps for the pirates.

Have a few ships slow moving ships sailing by Somalia filled with mercenaries having no cargo at all. When the pirates attack they get a nasty deadly surprise that solves the problem permanently.

The remaining pirates that didn't participate in the attack wouldn't know if any future ships they try to hijack is a trap or a normal cargo ship.

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/9/2009 12:00:44 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyslade

Apology in advance if I seem teachy, or still worse, preachy, but this is sort of what I do, so cue lecture mode.

Commercial maritime shipping vessels are not armed, and are unlikely to be armed in the near future. By "armed", I mean everything from aforementioned .50 cal machine guns to handguns.

Why? Insurance. Shipping companies pay HUGE insurance. They insure vessels, cargos, contracts, crew, equipment, and more. Currently, insurance companies generally don't handle or charge huge premiums for dealing with armed vessels. Ergo, ships are unarmed.

Thus, we get ships paying fees of $150,000+ for protection by nonlethal devices (usually sonic in nature) or protection by other armed vessels (such as the USS MacArthur owned by the now-renamed Blackwater company [Xi or something these days]). To many of these companies, having a ship siezed for ransom now and them is cheaper than raising insurance premiums by arming their vessels.

To my knowledge, the Law of the Sea Convention (pretty much the starting point when discussing international maritime law) does not restrict the transport of weaponry by vessels, only engaging in certain behaviors with it.

Grayslade, let the insurance rates go up for a few months while they kill a bunch of them.
If the pirates "know" they won't be killed there's not deterant factor is there?
What the hell is this "arresting them" crap about? You don't "arrest" pirates you kill them!
And they know that a bunch of them have nice homes in Somalia and other places paid for with ransom money. Why haven't those houses been flattened at 0300?
The only thing those assholes respect is brutality.

And as for docking in differant countries while armed all the shipping cos. should get together and say "fine, none of our cos. will visit any port in your country anymore."
It will only take a few days before the "shortages" start.
Then they'll want to talk! Then you tell them, "we'll talk to you in a month or two toughguy, maybe 3 months!"
When you're holding all the cards, play them!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 4/9/2009 12:06:25 AM >

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/9/2009 2:32:56 AM

4u2spoil

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With the pirates attacking everyone, I really do wonder how this keeps happening. I mean they've attacked ships from Russia, China and even Saudi Arabia. I agree with MasterShake. Send a few Trojan Horses (erm..Trojan Ships?) out there and let a few pirates walk into a couple of traps. Right now, it's not even a gamble. They know how things will be resolved, and it involves a payday of a few million.

If they want to hijack someone for millions of dollars without risk they need to do it the old fashioned way by working at an investment bank [rimshot]

(in reply to popeye1250)

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/9/2009 2:39:39 AM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil

Send a few Trojan Horses (erm..Trojan Ships?) out there and let a few pirates walk into a couple of traps. Right now, it's not even a gamble. They know how things will be resolved, and it involves a payday of a few million.

Q-ships

Firm

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/9/2009 4:31:37 AM

pahunkboy

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/9/2009 5:45:26 AM

Greyslade

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

they should spend a little more fuel and sail a bit further away from the coast or set traps for the pirates.

Have a few ships slow moving ships sailing by Somalia filled with mercenaries having no cargo at all. When the pirates attack they get a nasty deadly surprise that solves the problem permanently.

The remaining pirates that didn't participate in the attack wouldn't know if any future ships they try to hijack is a trap or a normal cargo ship.

They do "sail a bit further away from the coast." At this point, shipping is going through Yemen's EEZ or even closer to Yemen's coast. Despite that, pirate attacks happen, and have even happened in Yemen's territorial sea. Much further from Somalia and they'll be on land.

As for popeye1250"

quote:

let the insurance rates go up for a few months while they kill a bunch of them.

That'd cost an estimated tens of millions of dollars, if coverage was available at all.

quote:

What the hell is this "arresting them" crap about? You don't "arrest" pirates you kill them!

While I agree with you, the "international community" (also known as Europe) thinks the death penalty is inappropriate for anything. Happily, the LOSC doesn't regulate how you deal with pirates, and implies that strong efforts may be best.

quote:

And they know that a bunch of them have nice homes in Somalia and other places paid for with ransom money. Why haven't those houses been flattened at 0300?

Despite claims to the contrary, Bush was resistant to the idea of violating a state's sovereignty (even a failed state like Somalia). I hardly think this issue is high on Obama's To Do list, seeing as he's been fairly oblivious to maritime issues so far as well as security issues. Removing bases of operation is a key part of reducing piracy, and nobody is likely to do that.

I'm wondering whether the flagging economy will encourage them to tighten up on piracy. The loss of a few million dollars a month to pirates is acceptable to these companies, but they literally budget piracy into their costs

(in reply to MasterShake69)

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/9/2009 6:13:07 AM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I agree popeye. I'm not at all familiar with maritime law, so I don't know if merchant ships are allowed to dock in all their ports with arms aboard. It seems to me that we could work out a treaty with other countries to get that done. Considering that these fuckers target everyone's ships, I don't see why there would be a fuss about it.

Plus, weapons could be stowed before coming into port. There are ways but I do think international law does prevent arming these ships. Time to change those laws or arm now let and any 'international' court sort it out.

Meanwhile the ships would be safer.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 4/9/2009 6:30:25 AM >

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/10/2009 8:39:30 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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Is there any international law prohibiting us from putting Navy SEAL teams on board random US-flagged vessels? Just offload the SEALs by helicopter when the ship approaches port. If these pirates knew that any tanker or freighter flying an American flag just might have a dozen well-armed, highly-trained commandos on board, I would think that would give them reason to consider whether that was a ship they really wanted to attack.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 4/10/2009 8:40:46 AM >

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/10/2009 11:40:48 AM

popeye1250

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One thing for sure, the "social worker" approach won't work in this situation.
But, if these animals keep seeing their friends going out to sea and never comming back they might get the message. At least they'll be fewer then.

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/10/2009 11:50:48 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

One thing for sure, the "social worker" approach won't work in this situation.
But, if these animals keep seeing their friends going out to sea and never comming back they might get the message. At least they'll be fewer then.

Well, one good thing that may come of it - no matter how it turns out - is that now the United States will almost certainly start taking this problem a lot more seriously. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a few SEAL decoy ships sailing around that region by summertime. Blow a few boatloads of these fuckers right out of the water and I think you'll see them find a new field of endeavour in which to concentrate their efforts.

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RE: American mariners retake ship from Somalian pirates... - 4/11/2009 2:56:20 AM

FullCircle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
Now this makes me proud to be an American. Every other ship these assholes take doesn't get released without a military assault or by paying the pirates a huge ransom. But the first time they take a ship with Americans on board, the Americans fight the bastards and retake the ship. I do hope they get their captain back safe and sound.

I don't see what the difference is since they still had their bargaining chip; the captain. Ships need to be redesigned to make it harder to board them. They need a curved rim running all the way around the deck sloping downwards and away from the ship. This way grappling hocks would not find a surface to cling to. i.e. the pirates are at low level they are under the rim or even if at the extent of the rim edge at low level the throw or length of chain would not reach the far side of the curved rim. Would be advantageous if the rim was non metallic for obvious reasons.

If the American's were the Pirates they'd have no clue how to board the ship this is demonstrated in that film where they can't get back on the yacht because they left the steps up, I pity da fools.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 4/11/2009 3:06:57 AM >

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