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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 1:06:27 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		They don't call them, "Politically Correct Goose Steppers" for nothing.
Attempting to control others thoughts is just plain *evil.*

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 1:13:52 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is an attempt to be civilized… a shame it’s not native to our way of thinking.

Butch



Rephase:

Wouldn't it be more productive to stop attempting to be civilized, and work at being more responsable?

Kim


I don't see anything wrong with being politically correct... it is just being polite... it has nothing to do with responsibility or lack there of.

Show me an example where politically correct was used and was irresponsible.

Butch

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 1:18:55 PM   
Apocalypso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

They don't call them, "Politically Correct Goose Steppers" for nothing.


Because they're unable to form coherent arguments so fall back on overextended childish Nazi analogies instead?  Or are we talking at crosspurposes.

quote:

Attempting to control others thoughts is just plain *evil.*
Name a single example of that happening.


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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 1:20:50 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It seems to me you can get any point across and at the same time not offend political sensibilities...Unless of course offending is the point of the conversation.

Butch

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 1:21:19 PM   
Anarrus


Posts: 475
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		Perhaps George Carlin put it best.

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/1521/carlin_pclanguage1.html

Many people just use political correctness to make themselves feel good, while actually doing damn little to work towards eradicating the root causes of what makes people victims in the first place.

Anarrus

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 1:34:57 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		My experience with people saying they won't abide by p.c. is  that they want to continue to use racial and other slurs. My oldest didn't get called a kike until her freshman year in college, she had to call and ask me what the word meant. I consider this an advance in the world. And I'm grateful to p.c. that this happened. I was a lot younger the first time someone called me that.



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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 1:37:40 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline 		The problem, as I see it, is that it deters people from dealing with their feelings toward the use of ‘offensive’ words, by telling people they should be offended. My belief is, while words hold meaning within themselves, their application to a given situation/person, should only hold relevance, if they hold truth. If the truth hurts, figure out why, and change it, if deemed necessary.

It comes across as an excuse for not discussing sensitive issues.

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 4/21/2009 1:38:00 PM >

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 1:42:38 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I don't care if people hate all Italians, I do care that they don't express it to others. Then can go home and express their nastiness in their own little space where no one else has to be subjected to their bile. Which is a lot better than calling the coworker who got the promotion you wanted a dago or wop.

By having to think about what you say, maybe people will think about why they say it. Sexual harassment is a pc issue also. You don't go up to one coworker and say "nice hooters" and then turn to the one she's talking to and say "too bad yours aren't so big". It's rude and offensive and it should get you fired. Which hopefully will teach someone to think before they speak.

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 2:02:20 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't care if people hate all Italians, I do care that they don't express it to others. Then can go home and express their nastiness in their own little space where no one else has to be subjected to their bile. Which is a lot better than calling the coworker who got the promotion you wanted a dago or wop.



I wouldn’t claim to always have had this perspective, but it did come to my attention that those who display hate towards others; really hate themselves. I think it is important to recognize this, and to point it out when ever applicable, so that those who might be offended learn to leave that hate with the one hating, instead of carrying it with them.

quote:

By having to think about what you say, maybe people will think about why they say it.


I suspect that it is the furthest thing from the minds, of those are irresponsible in their speech. However, asking them what their really trying to say, or just walking away, might get them to think about it.

quote:

Sexual harassment is a pc issue also. You don't go up to one coworker and say "nice hooters" and then turn to the one she's talking to and say "too bad yours aren't so big". It's rude and offensive and it should get you fired. Which hopefully will teach someone to think before they speak.


Isn’t sexual harassment more of a consent issue?

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 4/21/2009 2:03:20 PM >

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 2:15:12 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

The problem, as I see it, is that it deters people from dealing with their feelings toward the use of ‘offensive’ words, by telling people they should be offended. My belief is, while words hold meaning within themselves, their application to a given situation/person, should only hold relevance, if they hold truth. If the truth hurts, figure out why, and change it, if deemed necessary.

It comes across as an excuse for not discussing sensitive issues.

Kim


I do understand what you are saying...or at least your belief...but you have to show me an example... a small child does not know to be polite but he is taught why and when to say please and thank you... If I find words that insult or hurt people I will not say them and teach my children not to say them. It is just polite. That is all political correctness is. I don't need to use slang or a curse or hurtful words to get my point across...or to insult.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/21/2009 2:49:03 PM >

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 2:15:36 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

where did  the notion of political correctness all come from ?

The Origins of Political Correctness
 
K.
 
 

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 2:22:57 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I am 50/50 on this issue.  In some cases there is an improvement to language and in others a detriment.
 
YMMV

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 2:29:12 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My experience with people saying they won't abide by p.c. is  that they want to continue to use racial and other slurs. .



Bingo. I will also echo thedark: PC is progress. There's nothing wrong in analysing language and in making sure that it evolves as a force for progress. People who are against PC tend to be reactionaries who want to continue in the good old ways - why else would they rile against it?

Sometimes, I love making horribly sexist jokes or puns. Sometimes I will say something completely unPC because it's funny: but never in public. Common sense, a sense of context, and civility: that's the way to rock it.

quote:



Besides, people that bemoan political correctness only want an excuse to continue being rude most of the time.  You get the whole ' I am going to speak how I darn well like and if you find it offensive that is your problem'... that is bull.  Both the listener and the speaker are equally as responsible.
 
I am pretty bored of the whole PC debate really.  Words evolve and change all the time and that is all it really is.  So in answer to your question.  No.  Get used to it.


 
 

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 2:47:43 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I do understand what you are saying...or at least your belief...but you have to show me an example... a small child does not know to be polite but he is taught what and when to say please and thank you...


I see being polite as being humble. Does politics really have anything to do with being humble, or am I mistaken in my thinking on humility?

quote:

If I find words that insult or hurt people I will not say them and teach my children not to say them. It is just polite.


I think it is more productive, is to explain what the word means, explain why it offends others to use it, and what consequences might occur in doing so, so that people learn to be responsible in their choice of words.

quote:

I don't need to use slang or a curse or hurtful words to get my point across...or to insult.


I am with you here, but believe it is just as much my responsability as the receiver, to deal with my emotions toward any offensive statements.

One of the example of political correctness that I think is more harmful then helpful, “learning disabled”. There is at least one group of people, who I believe, are conveniently placed in this group, to cover the public school systems failure to “teach” productively.

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 4/21/2009 2:48:29 PM >

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 2:57:58 PM   
MadameMarque


Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline 		"Political correctness" is practicing good politics, by exhibiting sensitivity and respect toward the interests of others.  Being sensitive and respectful toward others is an excellent way to be.  I get really tired of people defending rudeness, apathy, even cruelty, and the perpetuation of prejudice, simply by decrying better behaviour as "PC," as if that were an insult.

Now if you were complaining about people giving lip service to "political correctness," while being hypocritical, in truth, or if you were complaining about people who brow beat you for not knowing what the latest PC thing is - then I could get behind griping about it.

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 3:04:58 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

I see being polite as being humble. Does politics really have anything to do with being humble, or am I mistaken in my thinking on humility?


No being polite is being polite… humble does not enter into it.


quote:

I think it is more productive, is to explain what the word means, explain why it offends others to use it, and what consequences might occur in doing so, so that people learn to be responsible in their choice of words.


Of course then you tell them not to say the words... you are not rebutting you are agreeing.

quote:

One of the example of political correctness that I think is more harmful then helpful, “learning disabled”. There is at least one group of people, who I believe, are conveniently placed in this group, to cover the public school systems failure to “teach” productively.


OK what would you call the "learning disabled"? That is one of many polite terms used to describe people with disabilities. Politically correct wording has nothing to do with your school system and their failures.

Butch


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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 3:44:18 PM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
The Origins of Political Correctness
 
K.

That would be the same Lind who believes that " The real damage to race relations in the South came not from slavery, but from Reconstruction, which would not have occured if the South had won"?

EDIT:  And addressed Holocaust Denial conferences.

Thanks for the insight into what the anti PC crusaders actually stand for.

< Message edited by Apocalypso -- 4/21/2009 3:55:03 PM >

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 3:59:32 PM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		Political Correctness is cowardice.  It is an attempt to gloss over important issues.  And by itself, as has been stated elsewhere, Political Speech is not Politically Correct by its very nature.   Just try to post an Obama joke here and see...

I want to hear what people have to say, even if it is offensive.  That way I *know* who they really are, not what they pretend to be out of fear or a need to hide what they really feel or think.  

That way, I can respond appropriately.   I can challenge them or agree with them.  Culture will change what is acceptable language by itself over time.  And it those warts that need to be exposed to be treated.

PC is just BS.

Politically Correct Dictionary
This dictionary will keep you out of trouble.
Actor: metamorphosing being, possessing great wealth
Actress: metamorphosing being, possessing great wealth (and occasionally great beauty)
Android: bipedal, non-human associate, bearing immense knowledge and skill
Bag boy: agricultural product organizer
Bald: follicularly challenged
Bomb: vertically deployed antipersonnel device
Boy: oppressor-to-be
Brainwashing: cognitive accommodation
Cafeteria: dining facility
Car: earth-unfriendly, vertically-challenged mode of transport
Car Wash Worker: vehicle-appearance specialist
Cat: quadruped non-human associate
Cheating: cooperative assignment
Computer: machine bearing immense power and fallibility
Criticism: unjust self-esteem reducer
Dead: metabolically challenged
Demand: propose strongly
Derision: nontraditional praise
Dirty Old Man: sexually focused, chronologically gifted individual
Dumb: cerebrally challenged
Evil: niceness deprived
Exercise: body enhancement through exertion
Failure: non-traditional success
Fart: human ozone depletor; ecologically incorrect expression
Fat: horizontally challenged: person of substance
Garbage collector: sanitation engineer
Gas Station Attendant: petroleum transfer technician
Girl: pre-woman
Guess: anomaly maneuvers: repetitive predictions
Handicapped: physically challenged
Heroine: hera
Homeless person: residentially flexible individual
Hurricane: himmicane (non sexist)
Ignorant: factually unencumbered
Incorrect: alternative answer
Individualism: uncooperative spirit
Information: overly structured trivia
Insane: reality challenged
Kill: creating a permanent state of metabolic dormancy; servicing the target (military)
Lazy: motivationally dispossessed
Lost: locationally disadvantaged
Man: oppressor
Manhole: maintenance portal
Misunderstand: personalized interpretation
Monster: person of scales
Mugging: unforeseen funding of underclass
Murderer: termination specialist
Nerd: under-attractive, cerebrally gifted individual
Numismatist: capitalist monetary acquisition expert
Nut: hexagonal rotatable surface compression unit
Off: energy efficient
Old: chronologically gifted
Perfume: discretionary fragrance
Pervert: person engaged in nontraditional espionage
Pissed off: satisfaction deprived
Political: amorally gifted
Poor: economically marginalized
Prisoner: client of the correctional system
Prostitute: body entrepreneur
Redneck: rustically inclined
Rich: economically maximized
Secretary: stationery engineer
Sex: cooperative physical fitness
Sexist: gender biased with niceness deprived overtones
Short: altitudinally disadvantaged: vertically challenged
Sleepy: under-alert
Smart: cerebrally gifted
Specialist: physician having concentrated on a particular field of tax shelters
Structure: impersonal hindrance
Tall: vertically gifted: altitudinally endowed
Teacher: volunteer knowledge conveyor
Teaching: personality repression
Television: medium of electrons moving in disorganized patterns
Tired: rest-challenged
Uglier: over under-attractive
Ugliest: over-under-attractively gifted
Ugly: under-attractive
Unemployed: non-waged
Unsure: conceptual conflict
Waiter: waitron
Waitress: waitron
White: melanin-impoverished; member of the mutant albino genetic-recessive global minority
Woman: w/o man; womyn
Zipper: interlocking slide fasteners
http://www.funny2.com/dictionary.htm




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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 3:59:43 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

That would be the same Lind who believes that " The real damage to race relations in the South came not from slavery, but from Reconstruction, which would not have occured if the South had won"?

Thanks for the insight into what the anti PC crusaders actually stand for.

Let's see, you have nothing whatsoever intelligent to say about the actual content of the piece, but everyone who dislikes PC implicitly "stands for" something unrelated to it and which it did not say.
 
Very good, very good. Carry on.
 
K.
 
 

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RE: Political Correctness ? - 4/21/2009 4:08:33 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		I think that PC really does have its place. Yes it can go too far and it is an easy target for making fun, but words can hurt. There are some words that are used as weapons and only for the degradation of others. I think it is important for those words to be removed and neutral words as replacements.

Like  so much in life it is a balance, but taken too far it is a balancing act.


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