why all the cheating? (Full Version)

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sweetieboop -> why all the cheating? (3/10/2004 9:24:15 AM)

I was just curious about why there are so many people that are cheating and lying to their Doms/subs. I don't understand the point. If you have a problem in your relationship, why not try to fix it or get out of it? I find that when you lie and cheat, the person always finds out eventually and it causes a lot of hurt for everyone involved. I know I'd rather have someone tell me that they are interested in seeing other people, than to just do it behind my back and make me think that I'm the only one. Besides, if I'm not making my man happy enough that he feels he has to go find something behind my back (and lie to me about it) then I don't think he's worth being with in the first place. Doesn't anyone care about trust in a relationship anymore?



EStrict -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/10/2004 10:40:28 AM)

Read through old posts Sweetie. You will see over and over that this has been discussed. Along with *this* there is the discussion of what *is* cheating. It's a nasty little word, but one people have different definitions for. And often what one person calls cheating, the other would term a misunderstanding or an unwillingness to accept.

I know I have met people who get involved with people who are very honest that they are not looing for a monogomus relationship, but the one is so SURE that they will be enough and the person will realize they only need *one*. Doesn't happen, the one cries *cheat* the other moves on in disgust and you can chalk another up poor communication.



sweetieboop -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/10/2004 11:26:10 AM)

When I say *cheat* I'm talking about when a person is doing something that they are trying to hide, or lie about. The reason I bring this up is because I get A LOT of responses from men that are attached and looking for a discrete relationship because they don't want their partner to find out. My answer is always, "I'm sorry but I don't get involved with people that are attached. I wouldn't want it done to me, so I won't do it to someone else." They can't seem to understand this concept and I can't understand why they can't. LOL!



EStrict -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/10/2004 12:45:19 PM)

Actually I do understand that one. Your first post was a big vague (to me) in what you were terming cheating. It it s a two way street though, and do a search for BDSM and *cuckold* and you will find those that find it a fetish to either be with someone who will cheat on their spouse, or who want to cheat.

Of course, there are those that do so as *roleplay* or with the spouse watching, so to me that's not the same thing.

And though I do believe to each their own within the lifestyle, I am with you in the fact that I will NOT get involved with anyone who is a legal or commited relationship unless I know for a fact the other partner is fully aware. My to each his own is that *you* get to decide what you like/what/need as long as the actions are not hurting others. And if you are cheating on someone, I also feel I can't trust you easily... after all, that spouse you made a commitment to trusted you to honor it. And if you don't honor that one, why should I trust you to honor one with me,,,



sub4hire -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/11/2004 11:33:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetieboop

When I say *cheat* I'm talking about when a person is doing something that they are trying to hide, or lie about. The reason I bring this up is because I get A LOT of responses from men that are attached and looking for a discrete relationship because they don't want their partner to find out. My answer is always, "I'm sorry but I don't get involved with people that are attached. I wouldn't want it done to me, so I won't do it to someone else." They can't seem to understand this concept and I can't understand why they can't. LOL!


I think the bigger quetion is, why do people cheat at all? This is not a lifestyle only question. People cheat on their spouses daily.
To me, for those who I see saying they want a discreet relationship and such. Ok, so they have no trust in their relationship. Why or how would I ever trust them in ours? Where I am putting my life in their hands. Not a chance it would ever happen.

There are plenty of people out there who don't want to commit to anyone. They can go find those people.

Do unto others as you'd like to have done unto you!



Rendclaw -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/11/2004 11:54:07 AM)

It comes down to the fact that people cheat because they are not getting what they want from their relationship, and do not want to take the steps to extricate themselves from it, for whatever reason, be it financial, children involved, etc.

Discussion about said wants/needs/desires either do not garner a resolution, or never takes place for fear of the relationship taking a turn for the worse or ending outright. So a person takes the clandestine route.

I neither condone or condemn such actions, but I will say that honesty is the best policy, and let the chips fall where they may....



sub4hire -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/11/2004 1:17:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendclaw

It comes down to the fact that people cheat because they are not getting what they want from their relationship, and do not want to take the steps to extricate themselves from it, for whatever reason, be it financial, children involved, etc.

Discussion about said wants/needs/desires either do not garner a resolution, or never takes place for fear of the relationship taking a turn for the worse or ending outright. So a person takes the clandestine route.

I neither condone or condemn such actions, but I will say that honesty is the best policy, and let the chips fall where they may....


I totally agree with your views. But then we can go back to the lifesytle. Sub knows Dom is cheating on the wife or husband. He "claims" he/she will never do it with the sub. At what time does trust become an issue? Should the red flags go up immediately. Or can the person be trusted?



ShadowHwk -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/11/2004 1:26:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetieboop

I was just curious about why there are so many people that are cheating and lying to their Doms/subs. I don't understand the point. If you have a problem in your relationship, why not try to fix it or get out of it? I find that when you lie and cheat, the person always finds out eventually and it causes a lot of hurt for everyone involved. I know I'd rather have someone tell me that they are interested in seeing other people, than to just do it behind my back and make me think that I'm the only one. Besides, if I'm not making my man happy enough that he feels he has to go find something behind my back (and lie to me about it) then I don't think he's worth being with in the first place. Doesn't anyone care about trust in a relationship anymore?


Lies of any form hurt a relationship, and result in broken, or at the very least, bruised trust. People lie about their intentions for a couple of reason, the big one is fear of losing what they "have" before they are sure they "have" something else. This is a basic human insecurity. It often falls in with the "grass is always greener" syndrome. But the truth is, you can't fix a borked relationship by starting a new one - it just doesn't work. Communication is ALWAYS the key to working through problems in a relationship. So to make it easier to communicate, try to be open and non-defensive when your partner approaches you with issues... it's hard, damn hard, but try anyway. The more open the avenue of communication, the better the chance of dealing with relationship issues before they become deal breakers.

Just my .02

Terry
AKA ShadowHwk



inyouagain -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/11/2004 2:13:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
...At what time does trust become an issue? Should the red flags go up immediately. Or can the person be trusted?


Very good questions indeed, and hopefully inherent in all of us, on both sides of the dynamic.

It would appear in the example, the sub see's polyamorous activity in the allegedly otherwise Dominant, as their relationship develops (ie. alleged nonpoly Dominant acting poly with another nonpoly sub/fe/male, with direct or indirect knowledge of same by the original nonpoly sub... all the while he/she is/was building their semi-poly relationship with a perceived nonpoly Dominant portraying poly behavior... and obviously poly desires?).

Depending on the sub's actual expectations of this relationship, there could be red flags everywhere. If the sub expects a dual nonpoly, or exclusive relationship with a Dominant that displays, or has displayed contrary behavior... boom! Red Flag!

In the example, the sub was reassured the poly behavior would never be done in a relationship between them and the Dominant. The 'exhibited' contrary behavior was evidently a concern for the sub, as it must have been addressed as a issue in order to receive re/assurances from the contrary wayward Dominant.

I see 'contrary' as negative with respect to trust, and simply could not trust a person who behaves contrary to their stated intent and especially to their 'mutual' agreements.

As has been brought up in many other topics here on the board, time and patience are key elements towards building a solid relationship based on sincerity and trust. Any violation of trust, especially demonstrated violations of another's trust are very serious issues that should strike the expectant sub (or anyone really) deeply.

People/humans are gullible to various degrees, it is human nature. Sometimes we let fascinations and infatuations, or other things cloud judgement, and tend to smooth over concerns and red flag issues. Underneath it all we have the need to survive, and often adapt to ensure same.

Just as levels of gullibility vary with the individual, levels of trust also vary... some give it quickly, while others gradually. This could be perceived as vulnerability, which is of key interest to predators of all types in life.

All too often, the prey finds themselves in the perceived position of needing to save, or salvage the misunderstood predator... Hello!!! WAKE UP!!!

Trust is a resource, and it is your's... it belongs to you... place, use and manage it wisely, but do it yourself, on your own... not as 'guided' or 'instructed' by anyone other than yourself.

Inyouagain



proudsub -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/12/2004 10:03:27 PM)

I've been hesitating about whether to reply to this cheating issue or not, but thought i would give a different perspective. After learning from an online Master that submission was what i truly needed to feel fulfilled i asked hubby one night to tie me to the bed and he said "why would you want that" so i left it alone and figured i would never get what i wanted from him and back then i was afraid to tell him about my submissive nature because i didnt know how he would react after 34 yrs of marriage. About a year later i met a local Dom who became my r/l Master for about 6 mo til hubby found out about it. At that point i had to tell hubby all about my secret life and he shocked me by forgiving me and saying he wanted to learn to be my Master, and right then we went to an adult store and bought a bondage kit. I guess i was very lucky and now hubby and i have a new understanding and are much closer. He isn't a Dom at heart but he seems to enjoy what we do now. It's more of a D/s role playing relationship raather than 24/7, but it's definately a big improvment.



EStrict -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/12/2004 10:17:39 PM)

Actually Proud your story shows something I have said to people many times. I hear *my wife would never understand* from a man looking outside the marriage, yet the wife tells me she feels incomplete. It's easy to say *no interest* when you don't really discuss it. I know for myself, I use to beg my ex to tie me up,,, he did a couple of times but never understood. After we broke up and he knew what I was *into*, he asked why I never told him. I told him I did. He asked why I wasn't into *trying* things. I asked him when I ever said no.....

He asked me *why* I didn't try to explain my needs. I said I did, and he wasn't interested in tying me up and teasing me much less anything else... HE said it was because he was a trying to be a gentleman. I told him if he had been a little less gentle, and a little more a *man* thing may have been different.



MistressKiss -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/18/2004 7:37:42 PM)

quote:

Lies of any form hurt a relationship, and result in broken, or at the very least, bruised trust. People lie about their intentions for a couple of reason, the big one is fear of losing what they "have" before they are sure they "have" something else. This is a basic human insecurity. It often falls in with the "grass is always greener" syndrome. But the truth is, you can't fix a borked relationship by starting a new one - it just doesn't work. Communication is ALWAYS the key to working through problems in a relationship.


This was so well-stated. I learned something very valuable from my former therapist (grins - hey, I graduated). He explained that one of the biggest issues with "affairs" (if you'll all allow me to use his wording) is that the attached partner is not "emotionally available" to the other person. If I wake up from a nightmare, one of the most comforting things to me is to call my significant other. If I can't call him at midnight...I feel shorted. I feel I am not getting all that I need from him because of his obligations.

I have experienced an affair once in my life - I was the other woman. Although it was very exciting and good during the fun part...the rest was really hard to deal with. I couldn't do it again. I just know that the pain coming down the road, especially when you really care about that attached person, is just excruciatingly hard to deal with and then subsequently, get over.

As always, these are my opinions only. Some people can handle this and it isn't any big deal at all. I just know that as intense as BDSM relationships are (I feel MUCH more so than vanilla relationships), that when you factor in the unavailability of one partner...emotions will be so high and so intense that it can make the end heartbreaking for both.



xObsidianx -> RE: why all the cheating? (3/19/2004 6:03:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressKiss

quote:

Lies of any form hurt a relationship, and result in broken, or at the very least, bruised trust. People lie about their intentions for a couple of reason, the big one is fear of losing what they "have" before they are sure they "have" something else. This is a basic human insecurity. It often falls in with the "grass is always greener" syndrome. But the truth is, you can't fix a borked relationship by starting a new one - it just doesn't work. Communication is ALWAYS the key to working through problems in a relationship.


As one of the new folks, I thought about not saying nuffin - but this was a kewl post and besides, I think I have a little bit to offer by way of opinion. Making the transition to grow up emotionally and face the truth is a BIG step for many people. I've been fortunate to be in a great poly relationship for the past 9 years - however one of the most devastating times for us emotionally was the last two years of a five year relationship during which time we gradually discovered that our sub was a habitual liar. We talked about everything, shared everything, spent almost 100% of our time together as a triad..but even in that environment she managed to find ways to manipulate and be deceptive. Believe me, Im a great subscriber to the Alt Lifestyle Mantra of "Communication Heals Allllll (bang gong, light incense)" However, I guess my point is that sometimes even communication isnt enough. Two years and 1300 miles later, we are friends again, of a sort. Today, she admits that she just wasnt mature enough then to handle the responsibility of the truth. (she's only a year younger than me and at the time I was 37) But it still is a hard lesson learned - my advice is that if you are in a relationship with someone who has problems with the truth, save yourself some time and emotional energy and begin distancing yourself from that person however you can. The fact that they are the absolute wonderfullest bestest (fill in the blank) that you've ever known will diminish in importance eventually. (trust me on that one!!! [:)]

Time, distance and general life are the best teachers - for them, and for you as well. You cannot 'force' growth upon a person even if you are the best communicator in the world, they have to get it themselves. Just a thought!
[:D]



VixenSara -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/23/2006 11:14:18 AM)

My ex husband cheated on me left and right and when i found out, well that is why he is my ex. Me and my sub have a open relationship if he wants to go out and pick up a girl and do whatever well he can.  Me on the other hand i have my own reasons why i want to remain monogomous (spelling) has nothing to do with the fact that i couldn't go out and pick up a guy and have sex with him done that plenty. It is just my own personal preference for now.   I want to know if he does just because since he is my best freind and sub I don't think there should be secrets between anyone that is close and care about each other.  I am trying to rebuild my own faith of trusting people again after being burned for so long.  Is it cheating when it is agreed on in a non commited or commited  relationship no. Is it when you are married or in a commited relationship and is done behind one's back then yes.


VixenSara



LotusSong -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/23/2006 11:36:52 AM)

Is it really cheating if romance is not involved?



slavejali -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/23/2006 11:41:41 AM)

quote:

Sub knows Dom is cheating on the wife or husband. He "claims" he/she will never do it with the sub. At what time does trust become an issue? Should the red flags go up immediately. Or can the person be trusted?


Yes to the red flags.
No to the "can they ever be trusted". Well unless they are really one of those rare birds who can actually learn from an error and change their thinking entirely.

To the OP:
quote:

Doesn't anyone care about trust in a relationship anymore?


Yeah, there are good people out there, you just gotta sort through a lot of weeds.



degradess -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/23/2006 11:52:23 AM)

In reply to your post...if one believes we have evolved than our closest relatives are the bonobos.  In my experience I have come to believe the people are not programmed to be monogomous.  There are a small percentage who are faithful but very small amount of those.  Although we;d like to act like "civilized" beings, our basic instincts don't support that.  All one has to do is look at the stats on cheating, both men and women, to see this.  It's unfortunate but true.  



BDSM05478 -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/23/2006 12:53:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendclaw
It comes down to the fact that people cheat because they are not getting what they want from their relationship, and do not want to take the steps to extricate themselves from it, for whatever reason, be it financial, children involved, etc.

just have to jump in on this one.......... alot of people cheat nt because they aren't getting what they need from a partner, it is just because of the thrill..... my imfamous ex was this type, everytime i found out he would say he did it because he was insecure and didn't feel like he deserved me in truth i was just his safety net, he was a cheating thrill seeking junkie POS ..........



missjada -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/23/2006 1:03:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

I've been hesitating about whether to reply to this cheating issue or not, but thought i would give a different perspective. After learning from an online Master that submission was what i truly needed to feel fulfilled i asked hubby one night to tie me to the bed and he said "why would you want that" so i left it alone and figured i would never get what i wanted from him and back then i was afraid to tell him about my submissive nature because i didnt know how he would react after 34 yrs of marriage. About a year later i met a local Dom who became my r/l Master for about 6 mo til hubby found out about it. At that point i had to tell hubby all about my secret life and he shocked me by forgiving me and saying he wanted to learn to be my Master, and right then we went to an adult store and bought a bondage kit. I guess i was very lucky and now hubby and i have a new understanding and are much closer. He isn't a Dom at heart but he seems to enjoy what we do now. It's more of a D/s role playing relationship raather than 24/7, but it's definately a big improvment.



Proud Sub your story hits home. I was also in a relationship with my hubby. Unfortunately Our relationship was not the greatest. My hubby was unattentive to my needs and often distant with me. I was unhappy and and agravated with the relationship and was feeling incomplete. On the day of our two year anniversary he told be that he had a bondage/submissive fetish and he was afraid of loosing me so he never told me.

Same as you we rushed to a fetish store and bought bondage videos by Julie Simone and of course rope. It was his opening up to me that saved our relationship. We are healthier people because of it.



crouchingtigress -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/23/2006 1:42:13 PM)

Oh i would imagine that the one cheated on would think so.



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