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public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 9:59:12 PM   
dominika


Posts: 8
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline 		I really want to yank a slave of mine by his chained collar in public, but should I? The thing I'm concerned about the most are children and the parents of children. I'm not even sure if doing something like this is legal. I live in the gay part of town filled with sex and head shops so I don't think it'll be a big deal. What do you think? Is it a problem?
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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 10:04:49 PM   
NYLass


Posts: 409
Joined: 12/30/2008
Status: offline 		My ex and I were open about our S & M preferences with our son.  We wouldn't however shove it in other peoples faces.  Do it at a fetish event, club, or private beach, park or other out of the way event.  

(in reply to dominika)
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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 10:06:58 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Some people may gripe about your "exposing unwilling participants visually to your kink" but it's dynamically no different from many people that would be offended by same sex couples kissing in public.

I'd say be prepared for the possibility of having an officer stop you to determine the consensual nature of what you're doing and maybe have to deal with a moral imposition that you should not expose virgin eyes to the 'horror', but I can't see any reason why not to give it a go.


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I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 10:09:02 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NYLass

We wouldn't however shove it in other peoples faces.

Wanting the freedom to be able to express your relationship (regardless of dynamic) in public does not always translate directly to wanting to "shove it in other people's faces".


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I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 10:09:56 PM   
LadySweetOrSour


Posts: 1415
Joined: 3/21/2009
Status: offline 		Here in Australia, it isn't illegal, but a couple did get thrown off a bus for him leading her on a leash. It was up to the bus company whether they allowed "that kind of thing" on their buses, as they were a private company. I don't think leading someone on a chain is illegal on even a public road, as long as there is nothing sexual or violent in nature. I have seen goth kids lead each other around with leashes and never seen them get in trouble about it.

Assuming that you are not going to be acting violently or sexually with your slave in public, I can't see there being a problem. If you are going to be"yanking" him around, might it not be better to do it in a club that doesn't frown on that kind of behaviour? Just because an area has sex shops doesn't really give you the right to impose your fetishes on others, especially where UM's are concerned. In a red light area, it is still illegal to have any kind of sexual contact on the street outside.


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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 10:15:26 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySweetOrSour

...doesn't really give you the right to impose your fetishes on others, especially where UM's are concerned.

Why is it that, in a community built of people who espouse all varieties of WIITWD styles, expressions of our own personal dynamics are seemingly always immediately treated as "impositions" onto the general public?

Do a whole bunch of us still have some pseudo-catholic guilt/shame about what it is we're sharing...to where we're still more prone to treat it as the dirty secrets we keep in our closet rather than beautiful facets of how we are as individuals?

Maybe I'm just speaking from the perspective of someone who's more 24/7 lifestyle oriented rather than someone who's just into the kink-play aspect of it, though...

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 5/28/2009 10:28:49 PM >

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I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 10:36:23 PM   
ChasingOblivion


Posts: 125
Joined: 5/19/2009
Status: offline 		I often joke with my out-of-state friends that I'm "trapped in white bread hell." In reality, I live in a very conservative, largely Catholic community in a decidedly Republican state. I can honestly say that if you did something like that here, you'd almost certainly be banned from the premises of whatever public place you were in, and likely ticketed (public nuisance, obstructing traffic, inciting a riot, involuntary servitude, etc. Pretty much anything they could think to throw at you) or arrested. As for being illegal, depending on how loosely you interpret the law, some bully with a badge can always find a way to make an example out of people they don't like. As long as you don't go overboard with it though, it shouldn't be a big deal.

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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 10:57:51 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		I believe that any public* play involves the non-consenting public. But this is the same of, say, wearing sandals. By wearing sandals I expose people to my feet, they did not offer consent in the matter.

To assuage the absurdity, it's important to determine when an act done in public requires the consent of all viewing. "When they are harmed" is a good theory, but how do I know what will harm them? Perhaps me adjusting my belt in public will harm a past abuse victim, in very much the same sensibilities a leash and collar couple could "harm" someone. This also does not explain if being offended is being harmed.

The rule I follow is "When your freedoms, safety, or property are violated by my actions." Assuming my expression of romance (be it a man-on-man kiss, a girl on a chain, or a pat on the behind) does not pose personal or public health hazards, destroy any property, or specifically obstruct someone from their own actions, I see no problem.

People can choose to gawk. People can also rethink their morals if they find themselves offended but can't muster a better reason than "THAT SIMPLY ISN'T DONE, GOOD SIR!"

*Here meaning the general public, not public bondage clubs.

Edited to add:

I'd like to stay away from using the word "reasonable" regarding this issue. I consider it a cop out to the challenge.

What are my rights, as someone who doesn't want to explain to my 6 year old daughter why a woman is on a leash. Rephrase: Who owns the public sphere? Morality or ethics?

Traditionally, society has favored the moral majority. Specific allowances for individual rights have made great strides at large costs. One could argue over time we (western society) have gotten better about individual's rights. My generation is more likely to explain "She's on a leash because they like to play that she's a doggy" than my grandparent's generation.

< Message edited by HeavansKeeper -- 5/28/2009 11:12:45 PM >

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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 11:00:58 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

I believe that any public* play involves the non-consenting public. But this is the same of, say, wearing sandals. By wearing sandals I expose people to my feet, they did not offer consent in the matter.

To assuage the absurdity, it's important to determine when an act done in public requires the consent of all viewing. "When they are harmed" is a good theory, but how do I know what will harm them? Perhaps me adjusting my belt in public will harm a past abuse victim, in very much the same sensibilities a leash and collar couple could "harm" someone. This also does not explain if being offended is being harmed.

The rule I follow is "When your freedoms, safety, or property are violated by my actions." Assuming my expression of romance (be it a man-on-man kiss, a girl on a chain, or a pat on the behind) does not pose personal or public health hazards, destroy any property, or specifically obstruct someone from their own actions, I see no problem.

People can choose to gawk. People can also rethink their morals if they find themselves offended but can't muster a better reason than "THAT SIMPLY ISN'T DONE, GOOD SIR!"



*Here meaning the general public, not public bondage clubs.

40 points.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 11:13:24 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		40/100 =(?

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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 11:18:15 PM   
YoursMistress


Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

40/100 =(?


Ted Williams hit 40/100 and was widely acclaimed as the best pure hitter ever. 


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May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 11:21:48 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

40/100 =(?

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress

Ted Williams hit 40/100 and was widely acclaimed as the best pure hitter ever. 




And 40 points on the baseball reference.

(Note: It's not a score. They're cumulative points that add up. Add up to what, I'm not sure yet... *scratches head*)


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 11:24:14 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		What are you going to spend your 40 NihilusZero FunBucks on, YoursMistress?

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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 11:29:20 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I wonder, does anyone ever make it to the NZ honor roll?

< Message edited by marie2 -- 5/28/2009 11:30:08 PM >

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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 11:32:55 PM   
YoursMistress


Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

What are you going to spend your 40 NihilusZero FunBucks on, YoursMistress?


Well dear me, I'm completely torn between "Hogtied" and "You've Got FuckBuddy."  I do like to support the local businesses here.  May I think on it overnight?

yours


_____________________________

May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

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RE: public humiliation? - 5/28/2009 11:44:33 PM   
LadySweetOrSour


Posts: 1415
Joined: 3/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySweetOrSour

...doesn't really give you the right to impose your fetishes on others, especially where UM's are concerned.

Why is it that, in a community built of people who espouse all varieties of WIITWD styles, expressions of our own personal dynamics are seemingly always immediately treated as "impositions" onto the general public?

Do a whole bunch of us still have some pseudo-catholic guilt/shame about what it is we're sharing...to where we're still more prone to treat it as the dirty secrets we keep in our closet rather than beautiful facets of how we are as individuals?

Maybe I'm just speaking from the perspective of someone who's more 24/7 lifestyle oriented rather than someone who's just into the kink-play aspect of it, though...


The OP said she wanted to "yank a slave of mine by his chained collar in public" in a topic called public humiliation. She wasn't talking about a foot fetish where she get's her feet massaged in a cafe, which could be perfectly innocent. She is talking about, as I saw it, not leading someone around by a leash, but making a very public display of that thing that she does. As a parent, I would have been less than thrilled to see someone acting that way in front of my kids. Personally, I couldn't care less what people do, but where my kids were concerned, yep, I cared deeply. I have a breast worship "fetish" and yet, even given the enormous amount of boob on display everywhere I go, I do not indulge this in public. I think my breasts are beautiful, as does my sub, and while I don't see this as shameful, it is something I do in private or in public or private places where such behaviours are not witnessed by those who have not given permission for me to do this in front of them, more especially in front of kids. If you would indulge in this kind of public display, good for you. I, however, do not.

And as someone who has a 24/7 sub and isn't into "kink" in the slightest, I responded in a public forum to a question that was asked. I didn't realise I am supposed to contact you first to explain my possible answers. Perhaps get off your "24/7 lifestyle" horse and rethink before knocking another persons opinions.

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RE: public humiliation? - 5/29/2009 5:40:51 AM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		If we're just talking a quick tug, bloody well go for it.

I've pulled kat round by her collar many times and not gotten anything more than an amused glance from passers-by, even when the enforced trip has been to the other end of a long supermarket aisle and she's been protesting the whole time...

If we're talking leashing, more power to you, but expect vociferous feedback. Believe you me, if it were a little more socially acceptable, I'd do it in a shot.

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: public humiliation? - 5/29/2009 6:11:47 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Ok, this seems like fun for the moment, but what are the consequences over time?  You get the little ego strokes for showing your "power", the slave gets to feel the humiliation, get hard or wet panties over it, and go home to get the reward.  Cool, both of you get to show you are 24/7 lifestyle type instead of people who play at being ds.  Impressive.
All those lowly nilla people get to see you and be shocked or amused.  People will talk about it because it will make an impression (note the impressive).  Someone out there may recognize either you or the slave.  Now, it is "Did you see Jon being pulled around by a collar and chain?"  "I didn't know Jane was into kink."   :) Word gets around.
A month later let's say one of you gets laid off for what ever reason and you are out looking for a new job.  Do you really want to have those lowly nilla people who have no right to tell you what you can do, remember that day?
Exposing the kiddlets to kink is one thing.  UM's see things all the time and parents are forced to give what ever explanation suits them at the time.  That is life.  Why is the sky blue?  Why is that dog getting on top of that other dog? 
People have long memories for things that impress them, good or bad.  Is this what you want?  Is this something your slave could handle long after you have parted ways?
Kyst

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: public humiliation? - 5/29/2009 6:41:24 AM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Kyst - while I take your point, I must point out from experience that people's capacity to overlook the glaringly obvious is amazing.

As far as the vast majority of people we see/meet are concerned, "Collar" is the last thing that crosses their minds, despite it being instantly recognisable to anyone "in the know" - yes, even when she's being dragged along by it...

_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: public humiliation? - 5/29/2009 6:56:43 AM   
ZenDragoness


Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline
quote:

I believe that any public* play involves the non-consenting public. But this is the same of, say, wearing sandals. By wearing sandals I expose people to my feet, they did not offer consent in the matter.


What a beautiful idea, i was searching for an example like that.

Not totally off topic. Here in Berlin is a part of the city called Schöneberg, it is famous for the gay/lesbian population and the way a more open display of sexuality it is expressed there. Nearly all BDSM munches or meetings started also in Schöneberg, some have emigrated to other boroughs.

Some weeks ago, 2 women kissed in Schöneberg in front of a little shop, that sold ice cream. The owner made some pretty demeaning remarks. The reaction came quick. Not only have the two women reported his remarks to the police, 2 weeks later we had a rally in front of the shop. With 50 gay/lesbian/heterosexual couples kissing and around 1000 people attending the happening.

Maybe he should pack his belongings and go on living in a little village in Bavaria, there would it be easier for him to find like minded friends.



< Message edited by ZenDragoness -- 5/29/2009 7:02:09 AM >

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