RE: Granny tasers in TX~!

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Loki45 -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 2:45:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou They are NOT NON-LETHAL. Tazers can kill and have killed people. It's people like yourself that make ME shake my head in disbelief. It's been widely argued and shown in studies that devices like Tazers and pepper-spray cause police officers to overly-rely on them for conflict resolution. Instead of police officers using their negotiation skills, they reach for their Tazer or pepper-spray under the erroneous belief that these devices are non-lethal, which they are not. They can kill, and they have. In most cases where a taser was fatal, the one being tased had other circumstances that contributed to their death more so than the taser did. The taser is in fact a non-lethal weapon. It was designed as a non-lethal alternative to a gun and to a more damaging physical altercations. The cops wielding them cannot possibly know what medical conditions or what lovely ILLEGAL drug a person has taken that would over-emphasize the taser's effect on their heart. Tasers appear to be relied on more than necessary because people like you forgot what things were like without tasers. I'm sure Rodney King remembers though. He didn't get a simple jolt. He was in the hospital for.....how long? You see, using the taser or as you put it "relying on them too much" does another thing you're not thinking of: it removes the "adrenaline-fuled police beat-down" from the equation. I have seen dash cams where a cop so hopped up during a long chase, that when the biker he was chasing STOPPED and threw his hands up, the cop did a flying superman tackle and knocked him to the ground and proceded to beat the shit out of him. Had that cop had a taser, he might have pulled that first.....looking upon it much like a firearm wherein he wouldn't pull the trigger unless he saw a need. This is of course speculation on my part, however you can't get around the fact that the cop has 3 to 4 non-lethal alternatives to his gun: his STEEL BATON, his pepper spray (which as most cops know in the heat of the moment can be as much of a hinderance as it is an assistance), his over-powering brute strength (in some cases) and.......his taser. A taser doesn't fire a bullet that rips through flesh, shatters bone, explodes hearts, lacerates livers, etc ,etc ,etc. A taser isn't a heavy piece of metal that bruises, breaks and cracks skulls. A taser's INTENT is a quick, 5-second jolt designed to incapacitate a person so that the cop does not have to risk maiming himself or the suspect he's apprehending. Can it kill if the circumstances are right? Sure. But please.....someone look up the stats for me. How many SHOOTINGS are fatal vs how many tasings? I would LOVE to see those numbers. It should be especially informative since some people feel that cops "rely too much" on tasers, that would suggest they are used FAR MORE than a gun.......and yet....I'm willing to bet more people die from gunshots than tasers.

Loki45 -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 2:49:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou You're right, Holly. The police should be able to do whatever the hell they feel like. If anyone complains, they can throw out that tired argument, "It's not your ass on the line!" Fuck the Constitution, ..... Ahhhhh retreating to the old "constitution" line eh? Please show me which of the Bill of Rights says though shalt not be tased by police in the performance of their job.

Loki45 -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 2:59:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou You're right. Coal miners, high-wire electrical workers, those construction guys you see walking girders on buildings, fishermen, cab drivers, convenient store clerks are all just pussies. The cops know REAL danger. Street warriors I calls 'em. This is one of the most laughable things you've tried to say. You see, coal miners, electrical workers and construction guys have known risks. Their risks are one of environment. They can and do take precautions, wear special safety gear and receive special training to prepare for the risks they face. No matter how much gear you wear, or how much training you have, you can't properly be prepared for your phrase "Do you know why I pulled you over?" to be answered with a gunshot to the face. They don't make standard-issue bullet-proof masks, after all. When a cop puts on his uniform, he's facing environmental risks, as well as the risk from every drugged-up, insane nut-ball he may come across. And do you know what? It's his job to go TOWARD that risk, not away from it. If you see a high-wire worker "nearly" fall, you will likely see him grab hold of something to prevent it. Cops can't "avoid" those nuts that might kill them. Because it's their job to make sure the nuts don't kill US. That means the cop can't turn and run when that driver he pulled over gets out shooting an AK-47. Because if he does, an innocent bystander could pay the price. You have no concept of, nor frame of reference to properly understand the differences I've explained here. You've made your positions well-known in other threads. Your attitude is similar to one a friend of mine had once. He said to me "cops are jerks man, they do what they want." I asked him to explain his position. He said they beat down and arrest a friend of his. I asked what happened and was told that they were at the house that his friend was trying to visit. They were either answeringf a 911 call or serving a warrant....that part escapes me. What does not escape me, though, is that my friend sat there and detailed the events he witnessed which basically played out like this: Cops were at the house for the call/warrant/whatever. The friend shows up and starts toward the front door. The cops say stop...and it's obvious they are doing something, yet the friend continues toward the door. The friend demands to know what is going on as "that's his friend's house." After repeated.....REPEATED instructions to ruturn to his car, the instructions changed to get down on the ground. See where this is going? So my friend had a negative view that "all cops were jerks" because he watched his friend ignore REPEATED warnings, instructions, and other signs of a serious event happening and was arrested in a physical manner. Had he shut his yap and get back to the car, none of it would have happened. People like you are one of the biggest annoyances cops face. You shout "I know my rights..." instead of complying with what you're told to do. Guess what.....the side of the road, or when a cop has his gun pointed at you.....NOT the time to play street laywer. I don't care if you have the entire case history of this and every other country's judicial system hard-wired into your brain. That moment is NOT the time to play laywer. That time comes later in front of a JUDGE.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 3:03:11 AM)
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slaveboyforyou -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 3:17:39 AM)
Loki, are you a cop groupie? Do you drive a crown vic or an older model caprice? Do you have a police scanner in your home and car?. I bet you do. You sound like the type. Are you on a volunteer fire department? I've met guys that love to do that so they can get the lightbar on top of their car. You're one of those guys aren't you?

Loki45 -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 3:30:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Loki, are you a cop groupie? Do you drive a crown vic or an older model caprice? Do you have a police scanner in your home and car?. I bet you do. You sound like the type. Are you on a volunteer fire department? I've met guys that love to do that so they can get the lightbar on top of their car. You're one of those guys aren't you? And here we come to the part where, because you can no longer adequately argue my point, you try to make it personal. You attempt to paint some sort of derogatory picture of me and my view toward cops. Silly. Silly and immature. But...expected. [:D] No. I'm not a groupie. There have been many instances where I witnessed something on a dash cam or news copter footage and said "well, that cop's fired." However, there is a very huge difference between you and me. (Actually there are several for which I am very glad, but we haven't the time to list them all so I'll stay on topic.) The difference in question is that while you profess to love the constitution and the protection and due process it provides for citizens, you somehow feel that cops are not entitled to the same protection. You are a hater. You will always jump to the side opposite the cop no matter what. It's unfortunately very common. People like you are so quick to toss out that catch-phrase "innocent until proven guilty" yet when it comes to the cops, you say "guilty and fired regardless of innocence." I find that sad. But again, it's expected. I've seen the threads where you profess a love for criminals and an out-right disdain for TRUE victims, so it's no surprise that you don't care for those who stand up for innocent victims.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 3:41:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou you have admitted in the past that you have had several run-ins with the police....and you lost each one. Your prejudice toward the police is obvious and really laughable. While you sit there and criticize..there are some of us who thank God for them Certainly there are those who deserve the criticism, but they are few and far between. Yes they should have tazers, night sticks and guns. They do a job that puts them at risk every day. Holly my prejudice towards the police is cultural. My father's and mother family are both from Appalachia. Culturally, I was raised with a strong defiance towards authority figures. My family has been here since the 18th Century. I have ancestors that fought in every war this country has been involved. in. I have in my possession the helmet my great grandfather wore in WWI. I have a Luger pistol that my grandfather pulled off of a German officer at the Battle of the Bulge. I have a North Vietnamese belt buckle that my father took off of a dead NVA during the Tet Offensive when he was a young Captain in the 1st Calvary Division. Despite the shitty treatment that folks in Appalachia (aka hillbillies) have received, my family has always supported this country. We don't support being told what to do by ego maniacs with badges. It's cultural, and I'm not going to explain it to you. I don't have to cower to someone because they have a badge. I know my rights, and I don't kow-tow to cops. I'm not a pushover. I'm sorry if you are, but you shouldn't be. You have rights, and you have a right to assert them. For your information Holly, I have in fact had most charges pressed against me nol prossed or dropped. My most serious encounter with the police involved a 3rd domestic battery and disorderly conduct charge. I could have done a year for that. I didn't actually do it. I had a crazy, Costa Rican girlfriend that was rather fond of calling the police every time we has an argument. We had a heated argument one night, and I left. As I was leaving; she told me, "If you leave, you'll be sorry." I told her to fuck off, and I left. Well to my surprise, the police showed up at my friend's house an hour later to arrest me on a domestic battery charge. I was cooperative with the arresting officer. In fact, he told the Sheriff's jailers that I had been an extremely polite young man (I was 22). I was polite during the entire booking procedure......until Jeff showed up. Jeff was a guy I went to high school with (I grew up in a small town). Jeff was 5'5" at best. Jeff had and has a Napoleon complex. I'm 5'10" 180 lbs (I'm not a big guy, but I'm bigger than him.) He's been an asshole since we were in Jr. High; he's still an asshole. He hated me, and I hated him. He was the officer that took the report from my girlfriend. Immediately upon entering the booking room, he started berating me. I sat there and I took it for about 10 minutes. The jailers all had bewildered looks on their faces. He called me every name you can imagine. I finally had enough. I told him, "We'll see what happens in court, Jeffy." Jeffy is what we all called him in school; it was derogatory. He remembered it. [:D]. So Jeffy got enraged and instructed the jailers to place me in a holding cell. The jailers declined to do that. The SO doesn't like it when the city cops come in and order them around. I smirked of course. Jeffy wasn't happy. He started berating me again as he was filling out his reports. I just sat there and smiled. He kept on, and I finally had enough. I told him, "You know you have always been a cocksucker." Well, there's the disorderly conduct charge. I spent around 6 hours in jail. I bonded out, and I immediately contacted an attorney. ALL OF THE CHARGES WERE NOL PROSSED. Now, I have also been charged with 3rd degree regular battery for a bar fight (nol prossed, I was defending myself), terroristic threatening (attached to the bar fight, again self-defense), and that's it. I beat the hell out of some guy; I was charged with it, and the judge decided I was in the right. The only thing I've ever been convicted of are public intoxication and disorderly conduct. Both are class C misdemeanors in this state. A class C misdemeanor is the same as a speeding ticket. I pleaded guilty to my public intox charges and my one disorderly conduct charge. On the disorderly conduct, I was in the wrong. I was in my early 20's, I was drinking in a public place, and I was singing at the top of my lungs. I was guilty, and I admitted it. So Holly, you don't know what you're talking about.

sirsholly -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 3:49:44 AM)
quote: So Holly, you don't know what you're talking about. Really? I said you were prejudiced against the police...and i stand by my statement. As to your run ins with the police...i am sorry i even brought it up. Quite frankly i do not give a shit.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 3:53:51 AM)
quote: The difference in question is that while you profess to love the constitution and the protection and due process it provides for citizens, you somehow feel that cops are not entitled to the same protection. You are a hater. You will always jump to the side opposite the cop no matter what. It's unfortunately very common. People like you are so quick to toss out that catch-phrase "innocent until proven guilty" yet when it comes to the cops, you say "guilty and fired regardless of innocence." I find that sad. But again, it's expected. I've seen the threads where you profess a love for criminals and an out-right disdain for TRUE victims, so it's no surprise that you don't care for those who stand up for innocent victims. Where have you seen a thread where I express love for criminals and disdain for victims? Did you invent that in your own mind? Where in your entire month of posting have you ever seen me express glee in a criminal victimizing a person? I have adamantly supported the long term incarceration of all violent offenders. I don't support our bullshit "war on drugs" or incarcerating non-violent offenders. Please explain to me why I am wrong, Loki? Do you really believe the cops stand up for victims? Have you ever actually been in a police station when they were conducting business as usual? I don't mean as a visitor, when they put on a show. Have you ever had a friend or loved one incarcerated?

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 3:58:58 AM)
quote: Really? I said you were prejudiced against the police...and i stand by my statement. As to your run ins with the police...i am sorry i even brought it up. Quite frankly i do not give a shit. Well you did bring it up, and you intended to make it personal. I answered. Do you think I'm ashamed of my life? I'm not, I assure you. As for my so-called prejudice, maybe I am. I think you are someone that goes along with whatever authority figures tell you. If you don't care about human rights, and you don't give a shit about anyone but your own personal circle, than I'm glad you're intoxicated enough to accept injustice. It must be nice to live in that state of mind.

Loki45 -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 4:00:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Despite the shitty treatment that folks in Appalachia (aka hillbillies) have received, my family has always supported this country. We don't support being told what to do by ego maniacs with badges. It's cultural, and I'm not going to explain it to you. I don't have to cower to someone because they have a badge. I know my rights, and I don't kow-tow to cops. I'm not a pushover. I'm sorry if you are, but you shouldn't be. You have rights, and you have a right to assert them. Right here. Right here is where you have trouble. You see cops are not the ones who make the laws. Honestly, do you think cops would decide to bust speeders all day long while they know more serious crimes are being commited each day? No. They do what they do because it's what they are told to do. Representatives who were elected by the people make the laws. It is the job of the police to enforce those laws. Therefore, those same citizens and representatives have bestowed upon those men and women certain power and authority to ensure they can enforce those laws. You view the cops as some evil entity that sits in dark rooms just dreaming up ways to abuse the power given to it and how to gain more. I'd love for you to sit in on some police training, just once. It's nice that you showcase you family's service to the country. I didn't notice you mention your service, though. You know your family members didn't just serve the landmass that makes up this country, they served the ideals this country was founded upon. Those ideals have set forth a system, that system was put in place long ago to let the people decide what is and is not illegal, and those ideals also helped put in place the ones we choose to enforce the laws we make. Cops don't make the laws. We the people do through our representatives. Cops only enforce them. So by your flippant attitude toward the cops, you are showing a similar one toward those responsible for the laws cops enforce -- the people. But then considering the disdain you have for victims I mentioned earlier, I can see why you also have disdain for the representatives of the people. Without cops to enforce the laws that we the people make, we are back to the days of the old west where everyone must be armed and where there are wars in the streets because no two sides can agree on anything.

Loki45 -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 4:09:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Where have you seen a thread where I express love for criminals and disdain for victims? Did you invent that in your own mind? Where in your entire month of posting have you ever seen me express glee in a criminal victimizing a person? I have adamantly supported the long term incarceration of all violent offenders. I don't support our bullshit "war on drugs" or incarcerating non-violent offenders. Please explain to me why I am wrong, Loki? The thread where you whined and cried for your friend who knowingly broke laws and then, when given a nice slap on the wrist, knowingly violated that slap on the wrist so that she got more of a headache to deal with. You went on and on in that thread about not carring who she hurt. You only cried for her car ride. Oh the horror....a car ride. [8\|] quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Do you really believe the cops stand up for victims? Have you ever actually been in a police station when they were conducting business as usual? I don't mean as a visitor, when they put on a show. Have you ever had a friend or loved one incarcerated? Right there. See it? Lemme highlight again special for you.... quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Have you ever had a friend or loved one incarcerated? That is how your view has become skewed. You see it as your friend or loved one incarcerated. Not....this is what THEY did to be incarcerated. Sure, it's the cops' fault your friend was locked up. The cops made her steal. The cops encouraged her to leave the state when the LENIENT judge told her that she could not. It's all the cops' fault, right? And yes, I've had a friend in jail before. I found out after the fact, though. I've never been in jail. I have been pulled over a number of times, however. You know who I was mad at when I was pulled over? In nearly every case, it was me. Sure there was a case where I thought the cop was being a dick and another where I just KNEW he was speed-trapping people. But still, it's their job. I've also had a cop pull me over for speeding and INTENTIONALLY write my speed as much lower as he put it "to make it easier to get dismissed." I've also had one pull me over and simply say "slow down," instead of giving me a ticket. Not all cops are saints. Not all cops are devils. Wanna know why? Cops are HUMAN. We demand superhuman things from them, but in the end, they are human. Human bodies, human minds, human judgement...human MISTAKES. Wanna know when else I've dealt with cops? How about when my house was broken into and they got back my stolen property for me? Or how about the people who have their lives saved by the hard work of the cops? You see what you want to see, and that is sad. As you were clearly taught to hate cops from early on. I was taught that cops are human and they help people. I was also taught respect for them and the law. Because cops don't make the law. We make cops ENFORCERS of the laws that the PEOPLE choose to make.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 4:16:07 AM)
quote: It's nice that you showcase you family's service to the country. I didn't notice you mention your service, though. That's because I was talked out of it when I was 19, Loki. I was taking ROTC in college, with every intention to become a Army officer. I did well; I was a cadet Seargent First Class at the end of my sophmore year, a platoon seargent. On the third year you had to make a commitement. I was offered the position of cadet First Seargent. My grandmother, father (retired Colonel), and mother convinced me to pursue other endeavours. In my father's words, he wanted something better for me. Honestly, I was only doing it to make my father proud of me. He released me from that. I'm glad he did, but I still respect his service. I'm sorry if that is hard for you to understand. Again, I'm not ashamed of my life. I've done okay. Cops may not make the law, but they influence it. If you don't believe me, see what your local FOP has to say about legislation involving law enforcement. See how resistant they are to court decisions that favor defendants. So spare me this bullshit about the innocent cops doing what they are told.

sirsholly -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 4:16:21 AM)
Awesome post, Loki [sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 4:27:17 AM)
quote: The thread where you whined and cried for your friend who knowingly broke laws and then, when given a nice slap on the wrist, knowingly violated that slap on the wrist so that she got more of a headache to deal with. You went on and on in that thread about not carring who she hurt. You only cried for her car ride. Oh the horror....a car ride. [8\|] I whined and cried? LOL. I'm sorry that I expressed outrage with your heroes the coppers. I know you worship them. Like I said....cop groupie. Most serial killers are cop groupies too, you're in good company. I never said I didn't care who she hurt. I personally went down to the prosecuting attorney's office and offered to pay off her $1200 debt. I was denied; they wanted to make an example out of her. Her probation violation was due to some unfortunate communication break-downs between her PO and herself. You can try and bait me all you want; it's not going to work Loki. You and others that love to sit in your ivory towers are the ones that are laughable. You love to point fingers. Let me ask you a few things.....Ever smoked pot? Ever drank in public? Ever stole anything? Ever drove drunk? Ever beat the hell out of someone that pissed you off? Ever damaged someone's property without saying so? You can act like a saint if you want to, but I am not fooled.

Loki45 -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 4:34:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou So spare me this bullshit about the innocent cops doing what they are told. It's lines like this that make it obvious that debate on rational matters with you are pointless. You are amusing, though. Much in the same way I find myself amused when the bitch ex-supermodel on that lame celebrity show gets bit in the ass by bullet ants.

sirsholly -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 4:43:39 AM)
quote: I think you are someone that goes along with whatever authority figures tell you. If you don't care about human rights, and you don't give a shit about anyone but your own personal circle, than I'm glad you're intoxicated enough to accept injustice. It must be nice to live in that state of mind. Actually..you are wrong that i follow blindly, SlaveBoy. I do not. But there is no room in my life for prejudice. I tolerate it from no one around me...beginning with myself. And it is wonderful to live in the state of mind i have...as i harbor no bitterness. Perhaps one day you will be able to say the same.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 4:45:16 AM)
quote: It's lines like this that make it obvious that debate on rational matters with you are pointless. You are amusing, though. Much in the same way I find myself amused when the bitch ex-supermodel on that lame celebrity show gets bit in the ass by bullet ants. I don't watch reality shows, Loki. Maybe that's your problem, you view coppers from their behavior on camera. You don't actually know what goes on behind the scenes.. You're naive, and you view the police the way a 10 year old does. Like I said several times.....cop groupie.

Loki45 -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 4:48:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I whined and cried? Sure, laugh now. I recall the post where you said you pull over to the side of the road and cry whenever you visit your criminal friend. quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I'm sorry that I expressed outrage with your heroes the coppers. Between cops and criminals, I'd pick cops any day. You clearly choose criminals. quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I never said I didn't care who she hurt. Actually you did. You said you would personally acquit anyone charged with a crime that was non-violent, thus spitting in the face of countless people who came before you (and actually served their country, state or community). You would side with people who victimize others, so long as they don't punch them in the face in the process. quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou You love to point fingers. At this point in this thread, this statement from you is hilarious. You do NOTHING but point fingers at the big, bad cops. quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou You can act like a saint if you want to, but I am not fooled. I've never, not once claimed I was a saint. In fact, I've already made repeated mention of being pulled over. So none of those questions have any relevance except for one thing. You specifically mentioned driving drunk. I have never and will never drive drunk. In fact, I don't drink. I detest those who would even consider driving drunk and I wish great harm on the ones who take an innocent life because they can't call a fucking taxi when they're drunk. But.....drunk driving is non-violent, right? Who cares that an innocent victim is smeared all over the road by someone who has multiple convictions and yet still finds his way not only to drink but to get behind a wheel while drunk....I mean it's not like he shot someone, right? That is your view, right? We should tell cops to back off those poor poor drunk drivers because after all, they're not beating someone up...they're just trying to get home, right? The only thing I can say to you is this: I surely don't wish harm on an innocent victim who's only crime is to know you (if they are indeed innocent to begin with) but if, God (or whatever diety you believe in) forbid you ever find yourself clenching your fists and fighting back tears as someone tells you that someone you know was killed because someone else decided to drive drunk... I want you to come back here and say the drunk shouldn't be locked up because he's non-violent and it was his first offense. Will you do that for us? I know there are many who would like to see it, if for no other reason than to be able to say "well, now I've seen everything."

Loki45 -> RE: Granny tasers in TX~! (6/13/2009 4:51:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I don't watch reality shows, Loki. Maybe that's your problem, you view coppers from their behavior on camera. You don't actually know what goes on behind the scenes.. You're naive, and you view the police the way a 10 year old does. Like I said several times.....cop groupie. Actually, since you didn't read the rest of my posts, I draw on my own personal experiences with cops, not what I see on TV. I see that cops are human. Call it being a cop groupie if you like, as I know you have no comprehension of what a groupie is anyway. Besides, if I were a cop groupie, I'd much rather be that, than a criminal groupie.

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