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ORIGINAL: marie2

I agree submission has to mean something, but I think there are a lot of various dynamics and a lot of gray areas. 

We can't sit here and say it's ok to negotiate on some things, but not on others.  Either negotiation is a legitmate application in a ds relationship or it isn't.  While some of us might consider the dinner issue so small that it shouldnt even be an issue, others might see it as something that needs to be negotiated.

i wanted to reply to this thread SO bad....and i KNEW i wouldn't be able to without sounding like, well....me LOL (an asshole) i am SO glad marie2 had the grace to say what my heart meant, but my mouth would surly have fucked up.

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ORIGINAL: rednicky

Sailing, a Boss and a Dom are different.

But, though I hate to admit this (due to the somewhat smugness of the post), NihilusZero's post makes sense.

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

I might agree with you NZ, but I keep getting stuck on the problem of not a single word in all of BDSM-land having any definition that I know of. In the immortal words of Steely Dan

The things that pass for knowledge I can't understand.

So while I'd love to say that we should define all these words so that we can all communicate... the fact of the matter is, we haven't, nor do we intend to. I pretty much read every single post here and do a great deal of mental gymnastics to try to map what I'm reading into some framework that I can understand... and in the process I pretty much jettison BDSM terminology as meaningless sounds.

Heck, even you and I who very clearly think similarly across a wide spectrum, I'd be very surprised if you and I recognized either dominance or submission in a similar light. Bondage... MAYBE we could get some traction on bondage... maybe. But the rest of the words I've abandoned hope on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

What's the best approach for a couple when they fight over power? The sub may be submissive but she may not want to submit all of the time, every day. She may want a Dom to take charge but she may also want to make choices that he may not agree with. Like if she wants to sit and watch tv and order in while he feels like a home cooked meal. What if she doesn't feel like cooking. What to do? She likes submitting but she does not want to be forced to do something she has no interest in at the time. Like if you (a sub) weren't into something (like scat of vomit) I'm sure you would say no when the idea is presented. In cases like that, who does the deciding?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

fyi, for those of you who said the person in the post is a switch, I do not agree. At no point does she want to tell her Dom what to do. She'd just rather 'not' do things at times. Everyone is lazy at times. Is it so much for her Dom to accept the fact that, after a hard days work she just doesn't feel like cooking? It's not like she didn't present an alternative: fast food. It's not like she's letting him starve. it's just take out. Is it right to ignore a subs feelings for the sake of your own?

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ORIGINAL: beargonewild

It doesn't matter if it's D/s, M/s, or a vanilla hubby and wifey, the relationship changes thus what had been agreed upon form day one will not apply 6 mos or 5 years down the road. Individuals change as time progresses and it is logical to say the conditions of the dynamic changes also.

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ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

I'm sure it could be solved with a pillowfight

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ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

I'm sure it could be solved with a pillowfight

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

We can't sit here and say it's ok to negotiate on some things, but not on others.  Either negotiation is a legitmate application in a ds relationship or it isn't.

I want to come back to this also for a semantic reason of its own.

I'm all for discussion and feedback-giving. I'm totally for complete disclosure of pertinent information ("Sir, I sprained my ankle earlier today while you were at work and that is why I feel I won't be able to join you for the 2-mile jog you demand that I run with you each day.")

This "negotiation" word, though...it seems to present a debate in the form of the sub both expecting and overriding the decision-making ability of the Dom, essentially saying "right now I know what's best, not you" and, moreso than just on the level of disobedience, I find that a painful attack on (from the view of the Dom) her trust in him and how happy her submission actually makes her (both things being, I think, crucial to a good D/s relationship).

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Everyone is lazy at times

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Is it so much for her Dom to accept the fact that, after a hard days work she just doesn't feel like cooking?

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Is it right to ignore a subs feelings for the sake of your own?

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The sub may be submissive but she may not want to submit all of the time, every day. She may want a Dom to take charge but she may also want to make choices that he may not agree with. Like if she wants to sit and watch tv and order in while he feels like a home cooked meal. What if she doesn't feel like cooking.

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Failing that there's always Russian roulette.......

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Perhaps we should get married?....I'm game enough....
****Woo hoo, my divorce heairng was just yesterday and already a trans-Atlantic wedding proposal!  I am honored!  :> 

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

What's the best approach for a couple when they fight over power? The sub may be submissive but she may not want to submit all of the time, every day. She may want a Dom to take charge but she may also want to make choices that he may not agree with. Like if she wants to sit and watch tv and order in while he feels like a home cooked meal. What if she doesn't feel like cooking. What to do? She likes submitting but she does not want to be forced to do something she has no interest in at the time. Like if you (a sub) weren't into something (like scat of vomit) I'm sure you would say no when the idea is presented. In cases like that, who does the deciding?

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

We can't sit here and say it's ok to negotiate on some things, but not on others.  Either negotiation is a legitmate application in a ds relationship or it isn't.

I want to come back to this also for a semantic reason of its own.

I'm all for discussion and feedback-giving. I'm totally for complete disclosure of pertinent information ("Sir, I sprained my ankle earlier today while you were at work and that is why I feel I won't be able to join you for the 2-mile jog you demand that I run with you each day.")

This "negotiation" word, though...it seems to present a debate in the form of the sub both expecting and overriding the decision-making ability of the Dom, essentially saying "right now I know what's best, not you" and, moreso than just on the level of disobedience, I find that a painful attack on (from the view of the Dom) her trust in him and how happy her submission actually makes her (both things being, I think, crucial to a good D/s relationship).

quote:

ORIGINAL: newone11

Is there something wrong for simply asking for the night off?  I've said 'Sir, I'm just not feeling it today.  I'm tired of cooking and cleaning and inspection and just all of it.  If you wouldn't mind very much, may I please have a holiday today?  The only thing I'm in the mood for is mindless TV and pizza delivery.'  Does it make me less of a sub?  Eh, I'm ok with that and, more importantly, so is he. If  the answer had been 'no' I would have gone on like normal.  (Well, ok, maybe a little grumbling inside but gone on nonetheless.)  One of the things I like best about him is that he recognizes I sometimes need a break to just veg and he doesn't begrudge me asking for it. 

(And it helps that he loves hot dogs which is what I suggest for dinner when I don't feel like cooking. )

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What part of me Da Boss Man dont you understand???

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ORIGINAL: breatheasone

i am SO glad marie2 had the grace to say what my heart meant