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Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 11:27:59 AM   
rednicky


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Status: offline 		What's the best approach for a couple when they fight over power? The sub may be submissive but she may not want to submit all of the time, every day. She may want a Dom to take charge but she may also want to make choices that he may not agree with. Like if she wants to sit and watch tv and order in while he feels like a home cooked meal. What if she doesn't feel like cooking. What to do? She likes submitting but she does not want to be forced to do something she has no interest in at the time. Like if you (a sub) weren't into something (like scat of vomit) I'm sure you would say no when the idea is presented. In cases like that, who does the deciding?

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 11:52:43 AM   
Missokyst


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Status: offline 		I think I would consider I may be a sensual bottom rather than a sub.  I have done plenty of things I don't want to do at the time.  And sex is still hot for me even when I don't want it... well maybe more when I don't want it, but I am a freak that way.  I don't see anything wrong with being a bedroom sub who is ok with ds when wanted.  There are more than a few males wanting that exact thing.  It all comes down to choosing the person who is right for you.
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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 11:56:16 AM   
rednicky


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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 11:56:21 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		It depends upon the two people involved and how you've agreed the dynamics of power should be.

In my house, the scenarios you've described would not happen. In others, it may be acceptable.


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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 11:56:57 AM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		It all depends on what the expectations were when the relationship began, what was negotiated. If someone agrees to be my "slave" then fuck em, they better do what I tell them to, they gave up the right to decide if we will order in or have a home-cooked, it is my decision. As for a sub (as opposed to slave, I use slave to denote more of a TPE), it would depend on the dynamics of the relationship, on what he/she agreed to going in. If they are having second thoughts, or are discovering they are more of a bedroom sub, then it is time for a talk, time to renogotiate or reevaluate the relationship.

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 11:58:59 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

She likes submitting but she does not want to be forced to do something she has no interest in at the time.

Color me finicky...but selective submission does not strike me as submission at all. Quite the antithesis, as a matter of fact.

Hard limits and preferences are negotiated before the relationship (or in the initial blossoming stages of it). Apparently for some, the very concept of submission altogether (rather than role-playing a bottom when one feels like it) should be something they consider in the hard limit category also.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 6/3/2009 11:59:12 AM >

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:03:30 PM   
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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:03:59 PM   
KatyLied


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Status: offline 		Sometimes when a submissive refuses to do things she is simply testing the boundaries of the relationship, the strength of her dominant.  Who does the "deciding"?  Um, the dominant does the "deciding".  It appears that if home cooked meals were important to you perhaps you should've let her know this at the outset.  What have you done for her lately?  Yes, I'm seriously asking this question because maybe she is rebelling because she's not getting what she needs.

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:13:33 PM   
rednicky


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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:13:37 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Sometimes when a submissive refuses to do things she is simply testing the boundaries of the relationship, the strength of her dominant.

The only thing I'd consider such a sub to be doing is testing her own capacity to properly obey. One which, by the very initiation of such a test, she is flat-out failing.

The concept of testing was one recently touched upon by Andalusite and DemonKia is recent threads. I realized the difference is that testing when trying to determine if you should choose to enter a committed relationship with someone is one thing...but playing the testing card once the relationship has already begun: no no.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Who does the "deciding"?  Um, the dominant does the "deciding".  It appears that if home cooked meals were important to you perhaps you should've let her know this at the outset.

Quite the contrary, actually. The only important discussions that should have happened before the relationship began are those concerning things which the sub felt she could not do. Hard limits. Anything else after that is game for the D-type (heck, many subs/slaves even tell of how, in a sufficiently safe relationship and with enough trust, they've even crossed over hard limit lines and had positive experiences). It's not on the D-type to imagine every possible scenario he would want to exert control over and present it beforehand to the sub. Not only would that be ridiculous, it would be thoroughly unrealistic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

What have you done for her lately?  Yes, I'm seriously asking this question because maybe she is rebelling because she's not getting what she needs.

Maybe if she's doing it because I forbid her to use her vocal cords. And forbid her from learning sign language.

I'm not saying that couldn't be the reason, but there's something to be said when a sub's primary form of communication is covert irreverence.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 6/3/2009 12:17:31 PM >

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:25:03 PM   
marie2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

What's the best approach for a couple when they fight over power? The sub may be submissive but she may not want to submit all of the time, every day. She may want a Dom to take charge but she may also want to make choices that he may not agree with. Like if she wants to sit and watch tv and order in while he feels like a home cooked meal. What if she doesn't feel like cooking. What to do? She likes submitting but she does not want to be forced to do something she has no interest in at the time. Like if you (a sub) weren't into something (like scat of vomit) I'm sure you would say no when the idea is presented. In cases like that, who does the deciding?


If I didn't feel like cooking, I'd probably say so first, and if my man didn't feel like having take out that night, I'd cook for him anyway, ds or not.  Not sure if that's about submission or if it's just my nature to want to see my loved ones happy, even if it's over something as trite as dinner.

As far as the other things you mentioned like scat or whatnot, well, yes, on something like that, I'd have a more cut and dried limit if I really thought it was something that I could never overcome.

I don't know what the best approach is for other people, but I would suggest compromising on the things you can compromise on, and holding firm to the things that you really can't see yourself doing.  If both parties are reasonable, it really shouldn't be that hard to find a balance that both can live with.

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:33:11 PM   
NihilusZero


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Status: offline 		I'm reading back over the OP again and, more and more, getting the feeling that it's not submission at all.

See...the entire point of submitting is the surrender of something. Presumably over any and everything that you didn't request to be left with autonomy before the relationship began.

Then I started thinking that, before a sub chooses to enter a relationship with a Dom, she would have determined if the Dom naturally makes decisions in line with what she wants. Much of what I read, and even my own initial predispositions, seemed to agree with that...until I caught myself in a "what are you thinking?" moment. It isn't about want. Submission isn't the sub getting what she wants...or whether the Dom is feeding her what she wants. That's a red herring for what I would consider people who like the kink aspect of D/s but really have no interest in the power exchange on a foundational level.

Submission specifically is about you having to submit. And that involves (imagine this) not getting your way sometimes. That's the entire point of D/s in its differentiation from vanilla. So...what responsibility does the Dom have if he is not catering to the sub's wants continuously?

Understanding of information. Making competent decisions. The submissive's choice of who to surrender to should, underneath all, be a reflection of her trust that her Dom makes good, healthy decisions; both for himself, for her and for the relationship. That's it. The sub doesn't have to like the decision(s). Trust in the decision-making integrity of a Dom and you feeling your wants aren't getting babied are not mutually exclusive. If the stability of the trust you have in your Dom is so flimsy as to be put into question because he may just tell you to do something you don't want to do (and I'm not talking pre-discussed hard limits here), you may just be on the wrong website. Do you have to like it? No! Sure...whimper, gripe and stomp your foot (and not too loud)...but the very reason you are a submissive is because, after the tantrum is done, you will do it. Because you trust his judgment...even if you don't like/want it.

That's submission. Choose wisely.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 6/3/2009 12:35:42 PM >

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:33:47 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2
I don't know what the best approach is for other people, but I would suggest compromising on the things you can compromise on, and holding firm to the things that you really can't see yourself doing.  If both parties are reasonable, it really shouldn't be that hard to find a balance that both can live with.

three cheers for common sense.

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:36:50 PM   
ShaharThorne


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Status: offline 		I am still agreeing with NZ.

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:48:04 PM   
SailingBum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

What's the best approach for a couple when they fight over power? The sub may be submissive but she may not want to submit all of the time, every day. She may want a Dom to take charge but she may also want to make choices that he may not agree with. Like if she wants to sit and watch tv and order in while he feels like a home cooked meal. What if she doesn't feel like cooking. What to do? She likes submitting but she does not want to be forced to do something she has no interest in at the time. Like if you (a sub) weren't into something (like scat of vomit) I'm sure you would say no when the idea is presented. In cases like that, who does the deciding?



Uh there is no fight.  You will do as your told <generic you>  What part of me Da Boss Man dont you understand??? 

I totally get where your coming from tho.  You wanna be submissive when it convenient for you.  That's not a submissive in my book.  Akin to telling your boss  "im not doing that cuz im not in the mood"  Get back to me after you tell your boss that.

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:52:37 PM   
rednicky


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Status: offline 		Sailing, a Boss and a Dom are different.

But, though I hate to admit this (due to the somewhat smugness of the post), NihilusZero's post makes sense.

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:53:37 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

What's the best approach for a couple when they fight over power? The sub may be submissive but she may not want to submit all of the time, every day. She may want a Dom to take charge but she may also want to make choices that he may not agree with. Like if she wants to sit and watch tv and order in while he feels like a home cooked meal. What if she doesn't feel like cooking. What to do? She likes submitting but she does not want to be forced to do something she has no interest in at the time. Like if you (a sub) weren't into something (like scat of vomit) I'm sure you would say no when the idea is presented. In cases like that, who does the deciding?

Why should there ever be a fight over power?  The distribution of power and where it lies is discussed before the beginning of the dynamic...before you agree to give up./take on power. 

In many ways, I agree with what NZ has had to say though I maybe would not be quite so harsh in calling what you describe as "non-submission".  In the world that we inhabit, there is a description for this type of submission...it is generally referred to as "bedroom" submission even though all the submission may not take place in the bedroom.  BUT...the parameters of where and when submission will take place is discussed before entering the dynamic and, as NZ stated, one of the first things the submissive should realize even before entering into a "bedroom" dynamic is that, if she has agreed to submit in certain areas, that happens ALL the time, not just when she feels like it.  If it only happens when she feels like it, then it is not submission...it is roleplay and it is the submissive controlling the dynamic and the dominant because his dominance can ONLY be expressed with her permission.

Now, while the argument can be made that no dominant can exert his dominance without the submissive's permission/consent, the argument can also be made that the dominant gets that permission/consent once...at the beginning of the dynamic.  Attempts to withdraw or override that consent by the submissive is an alteration of the dynamic and...in my world at least...would call for an immediate halt to all overt displays of dominance and submission until the problem area had been dealt with.

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:56:49 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

(due to the somewhat smugness of the post)

My online tone can sometimes have that effect. It was not something that was intended to be personal towards you at all.


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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 12:58:37 PM   
colouredin


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< Message edited by colouredin -- 6/3/2009 12:59:42 PM >

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RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? - 6/3/2009 1:04:07 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

She likes submitting but she does not want to be forced to do something she has no interest in at the time.

Color me finicky...but selective submission does not strike me as submission at all. Quite the antithesis, as a matter of fact.


that is an excellent term to describe the scenario the op presents

quote:


Hard limits and preferences are negotiated before the relationship (or in the initial blossoming stages of it).

this is true...but there are sometimes changes that happen during the course of the relationship that negate the rules you began with.

For example...the birth of a child. Certainly the Dom would like a home cooked meal when he walks through the door, but there is the submissive who has run her ass off all day taking care of a baby in addition to whatever else was on the agenda. By the time dinner rolls around, she is too pooped to think straight (voice of experience here).

So...does he DEMAND dinner, or is he going to see that the rules change depending on the circumstances?

The op did not provide enough info. 


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