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RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:18:52 PM   
PyrotheClown


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Well your name reminds me of a Placebo song, so that is pretty creepy :D

it was better then GiggleWoggle Bottoms, the Prophylactic clown

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RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:19:38 PM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Well your name reminds me of a Placebo song, so that is pretty creepy :D

it was better then GiggleWoggle Bottoms, the Prophylactic clown


Yes I suppose it would have to be, wouldnt it.

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RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:20:37 PM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown

this thread seems to be just one giant critique on this poor saps profile, which got me thinking....

How do I rate on the creepy meter?


I can't tell.  I'm too busy being hypotised by your avatar.


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RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:25:56 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: flogger

Buddy, you are so correct...That is my problem..Im too shy to be bold..I would love to just walk up and put my arms around a slaves waist and just rock her and nibble on her ear. 


That is an excellent idea, and in no way presumptious, or an invasion of personal space, or great way to get smacked in the throat!

You should try this.



WARNING: This is actually a GREAT way to get smacked in the throat, kicked out of the local BDSM scene, and probably have charges pressed against you - for certain types of people.

For other types of people, this actually *is* an excellent idea, and in no way presumptious, or an invasion of personal space.

Just remember, some people can get away with anything. Conversely, rememeber that other people can't get away with nothin'. One good way to find out which you are - if you feel unsuccessful, don't understand why you're unsuccessful, but whenever you ask anyone about it they tell you it's your fault and imply that something about you is inherently bad, evil or valueless? You're on the wrong side of that divide. If you've never even had to think about which side you're on? Congratulations, you've got it made. The rest of us (and the 70% who fall in the middle) watch in a combination of awe, jealousy and confusion at your antics.

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:25:56 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Often blokes (I am taking this way beyond BDSM and into the general social world of vanilla too) who are nice and helpful, well mannered and polite are seen as "Creeps" or gay but in any case not "real; men" who stand up, take no shit and take what they want.


^^^ Also, this. ^^^

This is the sort of game that, on the surface, no one would actually claim to be playing. Yet any moderate amount of historical experience with the boards would have provided one with numerous accounts of how certain subs' submission is a figurative light-switch which gets flipped (they'll tell you) only by someone "dominant enough" to get it out of them.

It's at least part of the circular facade that propagates the desire for many D-types to focus primarily (if not one-dimensionally) on the appearance of "dominance" (e.g. machismo, aggression, cockiness, aloofness). And they'll do it because it actually works often enough.


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:28:44 PM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: flogger

Buddy, you are so correct...That is my problem..Im too shy to be bold..I would love to just walk up and put my arms around a slaves waist and just rock her and nibble on her ear. 


That is an excellent idea, and in no way presumptious, or an invasion of personal space, or great way to get smacked in the throat!

You should try this.



WARNING: This is actually a GREAT way to get smacked in the throat, kicked out of the local BDSM scene, and probably have charges pressed against you - for certain types of people.



I would have thought my tone was pretty clear in that post, even though it was only text.

At any rate, I have never met a person who could ever get away with doing bullshit like that to random people.


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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:29:29 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

This is the sort of game that, on the surface, no one would actually claim to be playing.


Oh, and this brings up another good bit of advice for flogger - don't do what I did. Never admit that the game works the way I'm describing it, no matter how obvious it is. It WILL transition you fully from "creepy" to "dangerous and needing to be put down", no matter how nice, polite or rational you are. People do not want to know what goes into their social games, any more than they want to know what goes into their sausage.

quote:

Yet any moderate amount of historical experience with the boards would have provided one with numerous accounts of how certain subs' submission is a figurative light-switch which gets flipped (they'll tell you) only by someone "dominant enough" to get it out of them.

It's at least part of the circular facade that propagates the desire for many D-types to focus primarily (if not one-dimensionally) on the appearance of "dominance" (e.g. machismo, aggression, cockiness, aloofness). And they'll do it because it actually works often enough.



This is another way to say what I just said, but more ambiguously so that NZ here won't get the public forum trouncing that I've volunteered for. :) Notice how rigorously well-crafted his description is? This is about the edge of where you can get away with talking about this shit.

< Message edited by Ialdabaoth -- 6/9/2009 2:30:45 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:30:06 PM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline




quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: flogger

Buddy, you are so correct...That is my problem..Im too shy to be bold..I would love to just walk up and put my arms around a slaves waist and just rock her and nibble on her ear. 


That is an excellent idea, and in no way presumptious, or an invasion of personal space, or great way to get smacked in the throat!

You should try this.



WARNING: This is actually a GREAT way to get smacked in the throat, kicked out of the local BDSM scene, and probably have charges pressed against you - for certain types of people.



I would have thought my tone was pretty clear in that post, even though it was only text.

At any rate, I have never met a person who could ever get away with doing bullshit like that to random people.



I can, cause I drop my pants right afterwards and make em feel sorry for me :P

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:30:07 PM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline 		Iald.  Read this.  http://divalion.livejournal.com/163615.html


_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:30:33 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilgirl2008

Look for someone to be a submissive rather then simply a play partner. I hear the term play partner and it makes me cringe. It says to me that I am merely a piece of meat for him to beat on. I actually do want to be cared about in some way.




I am play partners with a few select tops and never have any of them made me feel like I was "merely a piece of meat" to be beat on. They are trusted friends who care about me and I care about them. Even the few more casual sessions with tops I don't know as well never left me feeling like meat to be beat. Play partner doesn't equal not being cared about at all. Play partners can be good friends who want no more than friendship and some nonsexual s/m play (or sexual if you go for the FWB). It doesn't denote lack of caring.



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RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:31:58 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz
I would have thought my tone was pretty clear in that post, even though it was only text.

At any rate, I have never met a person who could ever get away with doing bullshit like that to random people.



When you do, if you notice it happening, it will open your eyes to entire new vistas of perspective on human morality and social interaction.

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:33:08 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

This is another way to say what I just said, but more ambiguously so that NZ here won't get the public forum trouncing that I've volunteered for. :) Notice how rigorously well-crafted his description is? This is about the edge of where you can get away with talking about this shit.

Did you just call my words PG rated?!


_____________________________

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:38:41 PM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline 		yes, I think he did
or he is talking about some shadowy conspiracy
not sure which

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:43:06 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

Iald.  Read this.  http://divalion.livejournal.com/163615.html



Yep. This is all 100% accurate, as far as it goes.

Of course, from the other side, there's reasons why Mr. Nice Guy is bitter, cynical, has low self esteem, and is so desperate that he acts like women "owe him something".

It's absolutely true that the universe does not owe you love and affection, just like the universe does not owe you food or water. Hell, the universe doesn't owe you AIR - but isn't it funny how we thrash around when we're drowning.

Here's a sad fact, which maybe flogger doesn't need to hear right now - hell, which no one thinks they "need" to hear, but which we all desperately need to acknowledge as a society before we can shake all this weirdness out:

Not all people are created equal. And some people, often through utterly no fault of their own, don't deserve to succeed. They didn't do anything to "deserve" failure, it's just an incidental part of who they are that everyone else just plain doesn't give a shit about them, they aren't pretty/charismatic/clever enough to make other people want them, and so they're basically just dead weight.

But we can't actually say that, because what's next? Concentration camps and Zyklon B?

So instead, we just let these people suffer through their long, torturous, miserable, useless lives, and gather a small amount of smug self-satisfaction that at least we're better than them.

It's funny - if someone is mentally or physically handicapped, we bend over backwards as a society to try to accomodate them. We air Friday After-School Specials and Very Special Episodes of Maury Povich and Full House and god-knows-what-else to show how much we care, how much we're doing to carry their weight, since we know they can't carry it themselves. But you show me someone who's socially handicapped, and oh boy! I get to verbally abuse him, kick his feet out from under him every time he's about to figure something out, remind her how fat and ugly she is every time she tries to reach out to others, tell him it's all his fault every time someone beams him that subconsciously-driven flicker of disgust (no matter how hard they try to hide it)... and then, decades later, we tell her that she just needs to "get over it", that she's still bitter from being picked on in grade school, and that the rest of us have moved on. Hell, if we're lucky, he'll be socially awkward and "creepy" enough that we can pin some sort of crime on him, and throw him off to be anally dominated by someone in an 8x10 cell for a few years - and God do we love to joke about it.

So yeah. These people are creepy, they're icky, and they're useless. And they just won't go away. Damn them.

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RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:43:16 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown

this thread seems to be just one giant critique on this poor saps profile, which got me thinking....

How do I rate on the creepy meter?



Humorous, not creepy. Sorry


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:46:32 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		On another note. I've actually seen a local fellow around where I live who I'm familiar with from a different social circle who plays the game in an entirely different way...and due to the novelty of it, gets away with more. It's a passive, 'silly-guy' demeanor coupled with conveniently injected timely sex jokes or sexual comments mixed with innocent 'gropes' that are attempted based off cold/hot reading. No response to these gropes is ever truly negative...because the tone is set to lighthearted silliness beforehand. It provides an alibi for having had intentionally devious motives for initiating otherwise intimate contact without consent (imagine a more convoluted 'tickle-test' methodology). At worst, there's a slap on the hand and a half-serious "no". The gropes just become water-testers for how far the pushing can go either with the target not "getting it" or not caring.

What was more ethically annoying about it is that he would increase the propensity for "hits" by targeting girls either immediately out of rocky relationships or those at the tail end of a rocky relationship. And...through all this, the list of people who would chalk up the demeanor to being "innocent" or would bite, hook-line-and-sinker, into the "emotionally wounded inner artist just trying to reach out" to the point of defending his actions was ridiculous.

And...sure, frankly there is a personal bias. Because, if I was perhaps less ethically honest (who knows if, in the end, it's a virtue or a vice), I could play the game better than him. But now I'm getting into a completely different side topic concerning the types of strings you can puppeteer on people when they don't realize they have them attached...and the types of people who learn how to do it without any genuine reservations.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 6/9/2009 2:52:08 PM >

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 2:54:16 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

On another note. I've actually seen a local fellow around where I live who I'm familiar with from a different social circle you plays the game in an entirely different way...and due to the novelty of it, get away with more. It's a passive, 'silly-guy' demeanor coupled with conveniently injected timely sex jokes or sexual comments coupled with innocent 'gropes' that are gauged based off cold reading. No response to these gropes is ever truly negative...because the tone is set to lighthearted silliness beforehand. It provides an alibi for having had intentionally devious motives for initiating otherwise intimate contact without consent (imagine a more convoluted 'tickle-test' methodology). At worst, there's a slap on the hand and a half-serious "no". The gropes just become water-testers for how far the pushing can go either with the target not "getting it" or not caring.


^^^ DING DING DING ^^^

Here's the beauty of it: everyone I've ever met that DOES get away with random groping, molesting and smack-talk is always "excused" by everyone they're around. "Oh, that's just Jeff. He's harmless." And funny enough, it makes the VERY UNCOMFORTABLE GIRL feel like it's her fault for not "going along" and "getting it" like everyone else. Anyone else who tried this would be riding in the back of a black-and-white, but because of "oh, that's just Jeff", Jeff gets to get away with it, and exploit the fuck out of it.

And there's ten different Jeffs in any scene I've ever joined.

Then there's Michael. "Watch out for Michael, he's dangerous." Or "Oh, that's just Micheal, the pedophile." Or "I heard Michael tried to rape a girl once." And you know what? You get to know Michael, and he'd never hurt a fly. Hell, he's never touched anyone before, and he's obsessive about permission and consent. But he gives off "that vibe", and people decide that he's creepy.

The thing is, whether someone is a genuine "nice guy" or a creepy Mr. Nice Guy has more to do with our interpretation of their body language and pheremones than it does their actual intentions or capabilities. We're filled up to the eyeballs with cognitive biases and self-justifying bullshit. Which, I suppose, is why most people act so shocked when things go horribly wrong, and say "not Jeff! I can't believe Jeff would do something like that!"

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 3:08:44 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		n
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

The thing is, whether someone is a genuine "nice guy" or a creepy Mr. Nice Guy has more to do with our interpretation of their body language and pheremones than it does their actual intentions or capabilities. We're filled up to the eyeballs with cognitive biases and self-justifying bullshit. Which, I suppose, is why most people act so shocked when things go horribly wrong, and say "not Jeff! I can't believe Jeff would do something like that!"

Precisely. And it's amazing the amount of people (and it's more socially applicable with women) who don't want the appearance of someone trying to pursue them...just someone having "fun" with them (presumably, so that they can feel a certain independence by being the passive initiators when it suits them...even if they've been maneuvered into it covertly. This is why aiming for emotionally fragile targets yields greater success percentages). It's those guys who are unfailingly and hopelessly genuine as far as wearing on their sleeve that they want to find someone (even if their intentions are wondrously gentle and chivalrous)...those are the ones who are supposedly just looking at them one-dimensionally as a 'hook-up'.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 6/9/2009 3:10:07 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 3:16:25 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
Precisely. And it's amazing the amount of people (and it's more socially applicable with women) who don't want the appearance of someone trying to pursue them...just someone having "fun" with them (presumably, so that they can feel a certain independence by being the passive initiators when it suits them...even if they've been maneuvered into it covertly. This is why aiming for emotionally fragile targets yields greater success percentages). It's those guys who are unfailingly and hopelessly genuine as far as wearing on their sleeve that they want to find someone (even if their intentions are wondrously gentle and chivalrous)...those are the ones who are supposedly just looking at them one-dimensionally as a 'hook-up'.


Well, yes. I mean, who wants to play poker with someone so inept that they never bluff and always hold their hands face-up on the table? I mean, you'll soak him dry, sure, but you'll never ask him to partner with you for your regional invitational that's in another 2 months.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: What do you do when at club everyone is owned or to... - 6/9/2009 5:29:59 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN
WOULD this profile be creepy if  there was a 40 yr old stud muffin with a six pack in the pic...???..come on..


Can't speak for all, but it would for me. All that lil girl sex stuff seems creepy. He doesn't understand that age play for many little girls is nonsexual. And indeed making it sexual for someone's inner child can cause huge ramifications.

But a 40 year old with a six pack is going to be seen as a more fitting partner for a hot 35 year old. Or even a 25 year old.

The op doesn't seem to understand that it's a relationship and both people must have their needs met. Beyond that, the only needs he mentions are sexual. Hard to build a relationship on that. Especially if he has any of the sexual dysfunction common with 60 year olds.

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