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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 2:34:04 PM   
JonnieBoy


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Status: offline 		I dispute that, in both respects.

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 2:35:32 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		It's only a tiny little hop across the Manche  .

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 2:56:01 PM   
JonnieBoy


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Status: offline 		Twas of course ... humour 

(As opposed to religion)

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 3:05:49 PM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's only a tiny little hop across the Manche  .


Unless you go when its holiday time, in which case take a month off to allow for the French lightening strikes (inpromptu industrial disputes that cripple cross channel traffic and are seemingly so well organised that "lightening" is a very dubious word for them).

Apparently this phenomenon affects Muslim travellers too !

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 5:01:33 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		This really bugs me. The chadri, what most would call a burqa, is not required by the koran. All that is required by the koran is roughly the same thing required of women in the Torah. That is that the hair should be covered when in public.

The term hijab which is the common term for the headscarf doesn't even mean that in the koran. In the Koran it means the isolation of Muhammad's wives because they were considered socially superior to almost everyone else.

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 5:04:28 PM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		This just in.......tomorrow's Daily Mail in the UK carries a headline calling for the burka to be banned in Britain too.

Which almost makes it dead certain that the wearing of burkas is a damned good thing.

E

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 5:15:55 PM   
JonnieBoy


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Status: offline 		A well educated response. Sarkozy has clearly done some homework too, effectively his policy will be difficult to dispute on religious grounds because there is no connection. There are many people that don't seem to even know that these garments are imposed on women by men as a symbol of status with consent hardly being an option to them.(the women)

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 5:17:09 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		All I can say about Sarkozy and the headline in the mail for tommorrow, is twats, they are denying the right for people to dress the way they wish. Banning the burkha, only shows intolerance and intolerance is what those that dislike the west seek to justify their actions.

What is different from a person wearing a burkha and another wearing sunglasses and a hood, if a person wishes not to be seen, is that not their right.


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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 8:43:49 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
What is different from a person wearing a burkha and another wearing sunglasses and a hood, if a person wishes not to be seen, is that not their right.

It is their right until it goes this far:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2970514.stm

at that point it becomes a menace to public safety.

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 11:39:58 PM   
Vendaval


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Fat reply -

Yeah, the Unibomber look is so 1987.

http://encarta.msn.com/media_461536792/fbi_sketch_of_the_unabomber.html

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/23/2009 11:44:52 PM   
JonnieBoy


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Status: offline 		Aneirin, I don't interpret this as the French imposing a complete ban on these garments, my interpretation of what's being proposed does allow them (regarding whether by choice or not seems to have two ways of reading it,neither of which is driven by religious argument), within a redefined spectrum of reason.

In addition to DomKen's point,would you think it should be ok for someone to appear in court over (for example) a motoring issue and be allowed to do so through a translator whilst wearing a mask? Or, (for example) get married in a mask [think how easy that would make the immigration process?], ... If you're a Michael Jackson fan, either forget I asked or replace the words "motoring" and "issue" with "paedophile" and "charge"

Anyone wanting to get wound up over me being a Sarkozy fan ... you're wasting your time and mine.

As for the Daily Mail ... I wouldn't waste my money on it, so excuse me in advance for being unfamiliar with it's "news" for at least the course of the rest of the day. (longer if I get my way)

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 10:45:37 AM   
GreedyTop


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but I havent seen anyone yet address the question (directly) of 
quote:

Is it debasement if the people involved are ok with it, or is it forced submission?
.

to clarify:  if the women wearing these garments are ok with wearing it, for whatever reason, how is the government in the position to say NO?  How is the government able to make the distinction between consentual/non?   


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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 12:30:29 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Greedy, I thought I replied to post #1 as early as post #2

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 12:34:29 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This just in.......tomorrow's Daily Mail in the UK carries a headline calling for the burka to be banned in Britain too.

Which almost makes it dead certain that the wearing of burkas is a damned good thing.

E


All the Mail have done is allow a Muslim women to post her reasoning for Burqas to be banned.

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 1:04:58 PM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Greedy, I thought I replied to post #1 as early as post #2


ok : )


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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 1:28:50 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This just in.......tomorrow's Daily Mail in the UK carries a headline calling for the burka to be banned in Britain too.

Which almost makes it dead certain that the wearing of burkas is a damned good thing.

E


All the Mail have done is allow a Muslim women to post her reasoning for Burqas to be banned.


Absolutely, and with no xenophobic, racist or anti-Muslim intent I'm sure; just like when they report on east European immigrants swarming to the UK to get first claim on social housing and live the life of Riley at taxpayers' expense. That's presumably why it was the main item on the front page with huge headlines rather than on an inside page where one might expect to find a follow up to any other speech by a French President (if at all).

Or is your point that my ESP failed when the front covers for tomorrow's newspapers were shown on the BBC last night in that I failed to read what was inside a newspaper not due to hit the shops for several hours more?

E

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 2:02:51 PM   
JonnieBoy


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Status: offline 		My ESP did not fail me, I successfully avoided the Daily Mail all day as a result ... YAY !(or should this be in the "I love it when" thread?).

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 2:10:55 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		I've got a question for the brits, how does wearing a burqa, which completely obscures the identity, mesh with the cctv monitoring? I personally detest the idea of 24/7 video surveillance but it is my understanding that it is legal in the UK and I do understand the public safety grounds under which it was implemented.

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 2:35:10 PM   
JonnieBoy


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Status: offline 		I don't wear one myself and neither does my wife (believe me,I have tried to persuade her but apparently is is a "hard limit") (I won't quote what she actually said when I tackled the subject, I'll leave that to her)

I detest a lot of the surveillance that goes on in the name of "security" and "public safety" too ... eg : cameras that were installed under the justification of "national security" being now used to dish out motoring fines.

Obviously the Burqa thing  is a potential security concern which mocks "national security" at this point, it want's some serious looking at ...... ideally without blinkers on. Saying the Burqa is a requirement of a religion is like saying you can't be a Christian if you don't go to church (whichever one) every week.

CCTV could have been popular ...
but then, the cameras are often too busy zooming in on road tax discs and yellow box infringements to spot any real trouble.

Pirate

< Message edited by JonnieBoy -- 6/24/2009 2:36:29 PM >

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 2:42:44 PM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Greedy, I thought I replied to post #1 as early as post #2


Which does not address the question as clarified in post #52 really.

Pirate

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