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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 2:58:50 PM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I've got a question for the brits, how does wearing a burqa, which completely obscures the identity, mesh with the cctv monitoring? I personally detest the idea of 24/7 video surveillance but it is my understanding that it is legal in the UK and I do understand the public safety grounds under which it was implemented.


One can wear whatever one wishes Ken - just 'cause the cameras are there it doesnt mean you have to show your face (in fact those up to no good typically wear hoodies and baseball caps to avoid recognition).

The only place one might get problems is getting served in shops and especially in banks - many shops have signs advertising no caps and no hoods and banks insist on bikers removing helmets so faces can be clearly discerned on cctv. Aside from that, passport control are rather insistent on seeing faces as I understand it.

Now one could say that baseball caps and hoodies in combination are as much of a cultural expression as is the burka - but it would be a very brave shop or bank that tried to ban burkas - the anti-discrimination lot would be down on them like the proverbial tonne of bricks.

E

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 3:14:41 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Greedy, I thought I replied to post #1 as early as post #2


Which does not address the question as clarified in post #52 really.

Pirate



True, but when i wrote post #2 post #52 hadnt been written.

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 3:21:43 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Absolutely, and with no xenophobic, racist or anti-Muslim intent I'm sure; just like when they report on east European immigrants swarming to the UK to get first claim on social housing and live the life of Riley at taxpayers' expense. That's presumably why it was the main item on the front page with huge headlines rather than on an inside page where one might expect to find a follow up to any other speech by a French President (if at all).

Or is your point that my ESP failed when the front covers for tomorrow's newspapers were shown on the BBC last night in that I failed to read what was inside a newspaper not due to hit the shops for several hours more?

E


I dont know what you are on about. The story is buried way insider the paper, and not even mentioned on the front page.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 3:28:34 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		Well ... how's that for fucks sake! ... seems to me there's an issue here that might just be a bite too hard for even the thickest skinned mass debaters on here !

I'm off for a couple of ciders, I'll come back later if I can drag myself away from my distance learning course in Durka-Durkastani.

For now .. "Durk-Durk-Allah, Mohammed Jihad" to all.

Pirate

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 3:40:15 PM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Using fast reply......(of course)

I get the concept behind it, but where does it stop? Will everyone soon be required to keep their hair either short, or pulled away from their face? Will the size of sunglasses be banned, or the sunglasses altogether?

I mean really, where does it end?


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 3:50:40 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		I think the view that all Muslim women are forced into this is off the mark. Many see it as part of their culture and are happy to continue wearing a Burqa. The should be free to either wear one, or not, as they wish.

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 4:25:53 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I think the view that all Muslim women are forced into this is off the mark. Many see it as part of their culture and are happy to continue wearing a Burqa. The should be free to either wear one, or not, as they wish.

The question is how to determine who does it voluntarily and who is coerced either overtly or covertly.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/24/2009 7:11:16 PM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The question is how to determine who does it voluntarily and who is coerced either overtly or covertly.


That is the "problem" with the whole subjugation debasement aspect of the French policy ... well spotted. .... how the fuck on earth do you determine ... and WHO determines?  ..... ?

I will happily debate from the subjugation debasement platform on this in a very French way ... which should be fun
I'll do my best ... (have my two litre plastic bottle of country vin rouge,brie and of course beautiful fresh baked baguette to hand, all I need now is a beret, a stripey breton sailor's shirt, string of onions, bicycle, accordion, my boules, a few gauloises, a mistress [no, best not be upholding THAT french tradition,my wife doesn't understand THAT much french], a big COCK on my left breast and we're away ! [at last, I hear you say ... but us Frenchies like to keep an audience waiting ] ... ok I'm ready now )

Here goes ... this is French Republic business, what's it got to do with anyone outside of France?
Prove to me that these Burqa wearing women are NOT subjugated isolated or debased by it....

Whilst you're pondering, I'll grab a nice bit of french stick and play with my boules

I love a bit of role play

Pirate

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/25/2009 10:13:14 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		The only way I can see the determination being made.. MAYBE.. is to do individual interviews.. privately, away from the husband.  But that would be too time/staff/labor intensive to be cost effective....

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/25/2009 12:18:13 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		Right, because if these women are being brow beaten into submission and forced to wear the coverings, would they ever admit that to an outside interviewer?

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/25/2009 9:55:07 PM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

The only way I can see the determination being made.. MAYBE.. is to do individual interviews.. privately, away from the husband.  But that would be too time/staff/labor intensive to be cost effective....


All wifely stuff has nothing to do with the wife in question, any interviews should be transcribed and handed to the husband immediately.

(oops ! , sorry everyone, I forgot my "part", I'm supposed to be the French citizen aren't I ? )
(notice how FRENCH I was ... I said "citizen")
(I am even French enough to be proud that my wife has a sexy ass, )
(shit, I've ran out of red wine and still have a nice creamy heel off a Brie, off shopping and not frolicking with any mistress on the way, honest )

It's role play babe, just not as you know it

Henri

< Message edited by JonnieBoy -- 6/25/2009 10:07:55 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/25/2009 10:06:56 PM   
JonnieBoy


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From: Cymru
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Right, because if these women are being brow beaten into submission and forced to wear the coverings, would they ever admit that to an outside interviewer?


No

(sorry for the typically verbose and poetic French style response.)

Now I have to wash my bicycle in case I have to prove that my mistress is not fictitious and loose the respect of my wife for desiring her more than her cooking ... it is well known that Frenchmen NEVER visit their mistress on a dirty bicycle, my beret will be revoked if I am found out ... please keep my secret safe ?

Henri

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/25/2009 10:39:35 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I hope greedy is easily amused.

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/25/2009 10:49:08 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Right, because if these women are being brow beaten into submission and forced to wear the coverings, would they ever admit that to an outside interviewer?


No

(sorry for the typically verbose and poetic French style response.)

Now I have to wash my bicycle in case I have to prove that my mistress is not fictitious and loose the respect of my wife for desiring her more than her cooking ... it is well known that Frenchmen NEVER visit their mistress on a dirty bicycle, my beret will be revoked if I am found out ... please keep my secret safe ?

Henri



I told you, babe.. if you have a mistress, I must have approval rights..

and I agree, if you desired my cooking, I'd be seriously concerned about the state of your mental health,...


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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 6/25/2009 11:04:50 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		No Ken, if she was easily amused I wouldn't stand a chance, being truly twisted eases things a bit, I'm pretty sure that pretending to be French can come across charming, but I can say Llanfairpwyllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyllllantisiliogogogoch ... a word which can have a very positive effect if repeated a number of times in the right places

Pirate

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 7/30/2009 11:20:37 AM   
slaveexotica


Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline 		Hi, Im very new to collarme and the message boards, so I hope I dont unintentionally step on anyones toes or offend anyone. I was just browsing some of these posts and I wanted to throw in my two cents as a young muslim woman.

I grew up and was raised in different parts of the middle east, and what I think many people who have never been there don't understand is that, for the most part, most muslim women wear the hijab, or niqab, or even burka by choice. Now there are certain countries in the middle east, where it is forced such as in Saudi Arabia and Iran. While I am a practicing muslim, I am not a religious scholar of any sort, but I do know that under Islamic law that while it is religiously required of a woman to wear at least the hijab (although there are some muslims that debat that) that it is her choice and that it is between her and God, just like practicing any other aspects of Islam or any faith for that matter, it is up to those individuals muslims whether or not they want to do things like cover, or fast, or pray 5 times a day, and relgious worship of any sort can't be forced, and that is written in Islam as well.

Now is it possible that some of the men in their family, husbands and fathers forced it on them, sure, it happens, but not as often as it is portrayed in the media, speaking from personal experience most of the women I do know outside of two that I met in my life have all worn such things out of personal conviction. I myself used to wear the hijab (the headscarf) until a few years ago.

I guess what I am saying is that to me freedom means choice, just like some women choose to wear very little, I think a woman should have a right to wear a lot if that is what she chooses. So long as no one is hurting others, who is anyone to say what others should and should not wear.

Those are just my thoughts and personal experiences, hope that helps explain a bit from the prespective of a muslim woman.

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 7/30/2009 12:35:16 PM   
Starbuck09


Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Exotica I was under the impression that the burqua was a status symbol and signified wealth so many muslim families are keen for their daughters to wear one, have I been mislead or is that true?

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 7/31/2009 7:06:55 AM   
slaveexotica


Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Starbuck,

I am truthfully not aware of it being a symbol of wealth and status as I have seen muslim women who wear it who are from all sorts of socioeconomic backgrounds, some who come from very wealthy families and many who do not, if anything it does seem to be more commonly worn by women who come from families who tend to be lower or middle class from an economic standpoint, at least outside of places like Saudi Arabia since many Saudi families and those from other Gulf countries tend to be better off. I'm not saying it is not possible, but that might be more of a thing specific to one arab country or another, I can't say for sure. Although one thing to note is that there definitely seem to be certain trends and styles specific to certain areas and that might be more due to cultural influences than religion. For example why do women in Afghanistan wear the blue burqas? I'm not aware of any religious reasons for that, but that seems to be the particular style in that area, whereas palestinian women might wear the black niqab and saudi women were the same style, yet some choose to also cover their eyes while others will show their eyes.

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RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 7/31/2009 7:11:07 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		hiya exotica :) and thank you for weighing in, here :) 

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Supreme Goddess of Snark
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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Has Sarkozy stepped in it? - 7/31/2009 7:23:24 AM   
slaveexotica


Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline 		Hi GreedyTop, you're welcome, its my pleasure, these message boards are pretty neat :)

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Profile   Post #: 80
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